Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Howdy! I have a question regarding what I can use for C45S loads in the event that I run out of my primary powder... I'm currently using 3.9 grains of Clays behind a 160 grain bullet in C45S for my pistol loads. They're easy on my arthritis and my Bisleys shoot them where I want them to go (most of the time ). I probably have enough Clays to last into the next century but in the event that I do run out, I'm wondering about substituting 700-x, which I have a lot more of. According to the Hodgdon burn chart, 700-x is only two spots slower than Clays. So what influence would such placing have on loading 700-x instead? Would I be able to use essentially the same powder charge or would I need to change it? I've been reloading for a long time, but with no published loads for C45S I'm kind of just feeling my way along... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 45 Auto Rim data is a good place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Spell it ... what are C45S ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, John Boy said: Spell it ... what are C45S ? Cowboy .45 Special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Thanks Abe. Never owned any so the abbreviation was foreign to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Charlie, For similar load performance, you can find load data for the .45 Auto Rim and .45 ACP and see what powders will give you what you are looking for, especially the light to moderate load info. If you don't find any data for the 160 grainers, send me an email and I might have some good data to send you back. ..........Widder (widder1894@icloud.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 I looked up 45 ACP loads using 160 grain bullets and Clays and 700-x. 700-x pressures are slightly lower with similar velocities and slightly higher powder charge. It looks like I should be able to use the 700-x with no worries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripsaw Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I've done some load development for C45S using a few different powders. Clays, Clay Dot, 700x and Red Dot all do quite well. Clay Dot, loaded with identical charge by weight, provided the most energy, and Red Dot the lowest velocity standard deviation. They all run well with similar powder charges in the 3 to 3.5g range with 160g bullet. I found 700x and Clays virtually interchangeable. I load all my .38spl match ammo with 700x and all my .45C and C45S with Red Dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I'm sure I have a PDF of suggested loads from AJ's old web page, or Dakota Skipper maybe... but I can't find it. As above, .45 AR data will work fine. Even .44 Russian data is probably close enough. We're not loading on the ragged edge here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Here are the PDFs from Jack' old Website: http://74.220.214.175/~dakotask/nick/cowboy45specialLoadData.pdf http://74.220.214.175/~dakotask/nick/cowboy_45_Special_Jacks_load_data.pdf --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 i think you will find the so much similar as to not realize the difference - follow the charts , but i use ' Clays, Clay Dot, 700x and Red Dot' loaded with near identical charge by weight simply because we are loading so low on the charts and i use all interchangebly in the shotgun loads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choctaw Jack Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 I was loading about 4.2 grs. Of Clay-Dot but was having inconsistent ignition ,especially in cold weather. I gradually worked up to 4.6 grs.,and all is working well. I tried Clays,Unique andW231 ,but settled on Clay-Dot. Of course ,YMMV. Choctaw Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripsaw Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Choctaw Jack said: I was loading about 4.2 grs. Of Clay-Dot but was having inconsistent ignition ,especially in cold weather. I gradually worked up to 4.6 grs.,and all is working well. I tried Clays,Unique andW231 ,but settled on Clay-Dot. Of course ,YMMV. Choctaw Jack Me, too. I found Red Dot much more consistent without increasing charge weight. Of course, lots of factors, primer, crimp, gun, etc. so YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 Thanks, folks. After looking at the burn rate chart I kind of suspected that I would find out what y'all have told me. I'm glad you could corroborate my guesses for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 20 hours ago, John Boy said: Thanks Abe. Never owned any so the abbreviation was foreign to me JB, it's basically a 45colt cut in half. I use them in my conversions for my Old Armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Cemetery, guess I am old fashioned ... just a down load with standard 45 Colt brass in my 58 conversions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 22 minutes ago, John Boy said: Cemetery, guess I am old fashioned ... just a down load with standard 45 Colt brass in my 58 conversions I'll be sippin' an old fashioned after supper tonight. I was thinking of downloading 45colt, but I read about erratic ignition in a few places, so I bought some brass with some leftover folding money one week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Cemetery, just use Fg black powder that needs no compression ... works for me. Plus More Smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Jack passed the rights for the Barnstormer bullet mold to me when I purchased the mold from him. Barnstormer Bullet. .452, hollow base, truncated cone bullet for the 45cs. Case. It works on the Minnie ball principle and reduces blowby in light loaded 45cs cases. There are many threads on this forum that discuss this bullet. If you are interested. Send me a PM or email. Foxavn@bellsouth.net. Shootin Fox OK Territorial Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 On 11/1/2020 at 4:38 PM, SHOOTIN FOX said: Jack passed the rights for the Barnstormer bullet mold to me when I purchased the mold from him. Barnstormer Bullet. .452, hollow base, truncated cone bullet for the 45cs. Case. It works on the Minnie ball principle and reduces blowby in light loaded 45cs cases. There are many threads on this forum that discuss this bullet. If you are interested. Send me a PM or email. Foxavn@bellsouth.net. Shootin Fox OK Territorial Marshall Thanks! I'll keep you in mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 OP, Clays is your best bet for the lowest recoil. The Hodgdon load guide shows 3.9 Clays as the maximum load for a 45ACP load. The lowest recoil of all the Hodgdon loads is 3.4 grains of Clays, 833 fps, 17,100 psi, BHN=13.4 The Hodgdon load is for the 160 grain Barnes TAC-XP which is not allowed for SASS. IMO, it is safe to assume the same relative performance between the Hodgdon load powders, when using a cast bullet. I looked at other loads with a 180 grain cast bullet... same situation. The Clays produces the lowest recoil, followed very closely by 700-X and IMR Red Trail Boss is even less recoil, but I did not find a TB load for 160 grain bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 18 hours ago, bgavin said: OP, Clays is your best bet for the lowest recoil. As I said, I'm currently using Clays, but my supply is dwindling but I've got scads of 700-x which is why I thought about trying that. I did develop a load using Trail Boss but I had trouble with load consistency. And I can get 700-x cheaper. Plus, as I said, I've got lots of that. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I used to use 700-X for my C45S loads, until I streamlined down to WST for all my cowboy and WB ammo. 700-X works very fine! WST leaves slightly less fouling on the brass. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 700-X is a very interesting powder for me. Clays has a more fluffy VMD, but the minimum load of 700-X fills a higher percentage of the case than does Clays. Minimum 700-X has a higher velocity and recoil than minimum Clays, which is why I chose Clays over 700-X. Both Clays and 700-X have published loads for 12-gauge, 3/4 oz minimum loads. 700-X offers the lowest recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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