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Aspects of a good/bad to you T.O.


Tennessee williams

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Over the decades I've noticed that a TO that WILL NOT give up the timer is probably not the best TO.  I've seen TO's watching targets instead of shooters/muzzle direction.  Yeah, I do think the TO should know what target the shooter should be on.  Who's job is it to count rounds?  Sometimes I think I'm the only one doing it consistently.  Petey was always a GREAT TO for new/female shooters.  I don't know where he got the patience.  I for damned sure don't see much of it around the house.

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I’ve seen many shooters freeze up or make a wrong move because the TO is correcting/coaching with sentences and paragraphs. If you can’t make a point in 2 words or less, keep quiet. Unless it’s a safety issue, let ‘em go. 
 

One of my biggest beefs is TOs who argue with and overrule spotters. 
 

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I think key is assessing the shooter. If he is well known to me I may only say spotters ready, wait for his line Stby and beep. Then call out time and poll spotters. If it’s a shooter that is less experienced you have to be ready to coach them.  I don’t think there are any TOs that I would not want to time me. There are 2 or 3 shooters I would rather not time for, but will. 
 

If you are timing for a new shooter and ask him if he understands the scenario, chances are he will turn around and tell you. Even if he has a gun in hand! Don’t ask. Assume if he is on the line he knows, or will ask for clarification. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

I’ve seen many shooters freeze up or make a wrong move because the TO is correcting/coaching with sentences and paragraphs. If you can’t make a point in 2 words or less, keep quiet. Unless it’s a safety issue, let ‘em go. 
 

One of my biggest beefs is TOs who argue with and overrule spotters. 
 

One of my biggest mistakes recently was overruling spotters on a P, changing my mind 2 or 3 times. 
Very fast shooter jacked out 2 rifle rounds. Reloaded them. Long story short, I got lost. I thought he might have had a P on target 3, but was not sure. Then 2 spotters called P. So I was ok with P. Shooter asked politely where was the p? One spotter said target 4, other said target 5. Since there was some doubt, I called it clean. Then spotters conferred more and both agreed that it was target 5. So I called the P. Shooter not happy. I wound up turning it over to PM to make the call, giving my input. I later apologized to the shooter for the error. I still am not sure what the right call should have been! TOing can be tough. I’m thankful to every cowboy/cowgirl who is willing to grab the timer. 

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Similar to a MISS.... Procedural errors that you are not sure happened.......... Didn't happen.

 

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10 minutes ago, Hoss said:

One of my biggest mistakes recently was overruling spotters on a P, changing my mind 2 or 3 times. 
Very fast shooter jacked out 2 rifle rounds. Reloaded them. Long story short, I got lost. I thought he might have had a P on target 3, but was not sure. Then 2 spotters called P. So I was ok with P. Shooter asked politely where was the p? One spotter said target 4, other said target 5. Since there was some doubt, I called it clean. Then spotters conferred more and both agreed that it was target 5. So I called the P. Shooter not happy. I wound up turning it over to PM to make the call, giving my input. I later apologized to the shooter for the error. I still am not sure what the right call should have been! TOing can be tough. I’m thankful to every cowboy/cowgirl who is willing to grab the timer. 

There was the correct call

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13 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

There was the correct call

I think there was a p. Just not sure which target. TO should be very careful when overruling spotters. With 3 spotters calling P, Me thinking P, I should have just said P and next shooter! Fortunately it did not cost my Pard the Cadillac!

 

what made it doubly bad is the next shooter was the black pin that just did my TO refresher the week before! 
 

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 I like a to who knows the rules of gf.  Doesnt stand in my path... and doesn't think this game is life and death. 

 

 I'm here to have fun.  If that means shoot all 4 guns outlaw or upside down  or switching shoulders.   Just laugh and have a good time 

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1st time I shot in GA... they had a "familiarization" stage.  Since I was shooting borrowed guns, I headed there 1st.  No spotters, just a TO who asked, "ever done this?"   I said "I've never shot these.." referring to the Rugers.  He musta heard, "...this," as he said, "okay, I'll explain it as we go thru."  

 

Marauder spoiled my fun as he told the TO, no need as Griff, SASS#93 has been doing this longer than the two of us combined!  Or something to that effect... Great,   now they both expect something fast & dazzling!   HA!  Not gonna happen, so instead, I coached the TO!

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When shooting cap and ball revolvers I prefer a TO who has shot them and understands their peculiarities.

 

Worst TO ever: a fellow who thought he had to shout out every move.  The match director relieved him of the timer.

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Had a T.O. (more than once)

Shooter ready? Yep! No beep..

He laughs a little and again. shooter ready? Yep! No beep..

He laughs again.. and yes we're good friends.. He's just joking around..

But now ya just don't know if you're gonna get a beep or not..

 

Rance ;)

Just sayin':huh:

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On 10/31/2020 at 12:50 AM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

AS you move toward the scorekeeper; CALL out the time and misses (and bonuses, procedurals, etc.) as follows:

In time format.

Nineteen forty six.

Spotters say CLEAN.

And then AGAIN in numerical format.

ONE NINE point FOUR SIX

And CLEAN.

 

 

 

 

You never made that call for me. :(

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I can understand black powder shooters wanting shotgun targets to be called down.  My preference is to only have the TO speak up if something is wrong.  I assume they're down unless told otherwise.  Verbal or physical input from an outside source during a stage will cause my train to wreck in an instant.  I'm perfectly capable of causing my own train wrecks.  Don't need any help from the TO. 

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Seems some bp shooters like it when you say down others just want up. My recommendation for bp or any other shooter that likes them called down is just say "let me know if they're down" when coming to the line. Same works for any other nuances the shooter may have that are a bit different from other shooters. Like "tap me to start" or "beep my left ear". TO will do it if they know, but they gotta know. Myself, I'm gonna start saying no Ps.

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On 11/2/2020 at 6:54 PM, Hoss said:

I think there was a p. Just not sure which target. TO should be very careful when overruling spotters. 

 

Just to clarify -  the ONLY thing the spotters can actually call are misses.

And the TO cannot overrule the spotters regarding misses.

 

But as it applies to Procedurals, Safeties, etc. 

There is no "overruling" the spotters as their input is just advisory.

The TO solicits and considers the input from the spotters regarding these items and then he or she makes the call.

All penalties outside of misses are assigned by the TO.

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9 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Just to clarify -  the ONLY thing the spotters can actually call are misses.

And the TO cannot overrule the spotters regarding misses.

 

But as it applies to Procedurals, Safeties, etc. 

There is no "overruling" the spotters as their input is just advisory.

The TO solicits and considers the input from the spotters regarding these items and then he or she makes the call.

All penalties outside of misses are assigned by the TO.

Overruling may have been a poor choice of words. I do know the TO has final say. But if 2 spotters have a P TO needs to be 100% sure, and should explain, why no P called. Some Ps are definitely easier than others! 
 

in the situation I was referencing, in my mind a P happened. I’m not sure, nor were the spotters, on which target it happened on. Again, a very fast shooter, shooting a scenario with some options, and he jacked out a couple of rounds. (Which  were reloaded) Plus had a mandatory reload. By the end of it about all I knew for sure  was he was done, no misses, no safeties, and the time. I was pretty sure he had a P, I thought target 3, 1 spotter said target 4, 1 spotter said target 5, 3rd spotter said no P. 

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6 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

Myself, I'm gonna start saying no Ps.

 

Remember you’re getting older and “no P” is bad for your prostate.  :ph34r:  :lol:

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5 hours ago, Hoss said:

Overruling may have been a poor choice of words. I do know the TO has final say. But if 2 spotters have a P TO needs to be 100% sure, and should explain, why no P called. Some Ps are definitely easier than others! 
 

in the situation I was referencing, in my mind a P happened. I’m not sure, nor were the spotters, on which target it happened on. Again, a very fast shooter, shooting a scenario with some options, and he jacked out a couple of rounds. (Which  were reloaded) Plus had a mandatory reload. By the end of it about all I knew for sure  was he was done, no misses, no safeties, and the time. I was pretty sure he had a P, I thought target 3, 1 spotter said target 4, 1 spotter said target 5, 3rd spotter said no P. 

 

 

I know I'm going to regret opening this can of worms but I have to ask, what call was made?

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18 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

 

I know I'm going to regret opening this can of worms but I have to ask, what call was made?

 

They probably gave the shooter 3 'P's........ :lol::lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

 

I know I'm going to regret opening this can of worms but I have to ask, what call was made?

To be truthful, I’m not sure. I turned it over to the PM, with the information as I understood it. He discussed with spotters. I apologized to shooter, spotters, PM for making a hash of it. I don’t think the P was assigned. I’ve gone over it in my mind about a million times, trying to think what I woulda-coulda done differently.  In my mind there was a P, But not sure exactly where. 

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59 minutes ago, Hoss said:

To be truthful, I’m not sure. I turned it over to the PM, with the information as I understood it. He discussed with spotters. I apologized to shooter, spotters, PM for making a hash of it. I don’t think the P was assigned. I’ve gone over it in my mind about a million times, trying to think what I woulda-coulda done differently.  In my mind there was a P, But not sure exactly where. 

 

You didn’t make a hash of it. Not 100% sure = No Call. You did the right thing. Good on you. 

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I've timed for Evil Dogooder many times. I start him and then give a wide berth. It's usually pretty easy, even as fast as he is. He doesn't argue, complain, lobby, ect. Just smiles and wants to know raw time. Misses tend to be an occupational hazard for him. The boy just wants to go FAST!!!

 

My three things I like in a RO:

 

I'm left handed. So, if the stage allows me to go from right to left, I shouldn't have to tell you to be on my right hand side. The opposite is the same for righties. 

 

When saying "standby" give a full second before you start the timer. I don't jump the timer. So, a good smooth cadence at the start, usually translates to a smooth stage.

 

And unless I have an issue, screw-up, etc., I don't even want to know you are there. At Gunsmoke a couple years ago. We had a lady posse marshall who also happened to time for me at the start of every stage. When the match was over, I told her the best compliment I can give is that I never noticed you were there during my stage runs. 

 

 

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Since I’m shooting FCD and Frontiersman, and anyone who’s been on my posse knows that it’s gonna get smokey, real smokey, I’m going to have to make a better effort to let the TO know what I prefer.  My preference is to let me know if a KD is down or up because after the shot I’m moving on to the next target.  As far as pistol/rifle (rifle not last ;)) I’ll just let the spotters figure out what they saw or heard, chances are their guess is better than mine.

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To me a good TO:

 

Assesses the shooter as the shooter comes to the line, eyes, ears, shotgun ammo, status of guns.

 

Takes the right position, shooter’s strong side, out of peripheral vision, timer oriented to maximize sound capture.

 

Knows the stage description, including starting position and doesn’t allow faulted starts.

 

Gives a consistent lag between ‘standby...beep, 1-2 seconds.

 

Knows the rules.

 

Anticipates shooter movement and stays out of the way.

 

Gives coaching only when absolutely needed, but when needed anticipates and is ready with a quick, correct coaching statement.

 

Watches the shooter and the guns with targets in peripheral as possible.

 

Keeps things moving without rushing the shooter.

 

Reports the time clearly and loudly and also shows it to the scorekeeper.

 

Genuinely wants to help the shooter.

 

Knows what benefit of the doubt means and gives it only when appropriate.

 

Enforces the rules without being a hardass.

 

Doesn’t get caught up in proving himself ‘right.’

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