Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Favorite Muscle Car


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 99
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

My "muscle" car. Love Mustangs too. 351 Cleveland putting out over 400 hp at the crankshaft.

The muscle car era ran from about 61 to 70. They were part of the horsepower wars between Chrysler, Ford, and GM. Or factory race cars that could be bought off the dealer lot. Not knocking the cars sh

Lucas invented the three position light switch: dim, flicker and off.

Posted Images

Most of the real “muscle cars” that still ran and weren’t ruined never were “dime a dozen”!!!  The breed has held its value better than most commodities produced around that time period.

 

Remember!! The “muscle cars” were a small number of cars built especially for performance. They resembled their base and even deluxe brothers and sisters, but Mom’s four door Chevy Malibu WAS NOT a muscle car!! Neither was Uncle Dave’s six cylinder Barracuda!!

 

By the same token, Dad’s four door Bonnieville wagon with the Super Duty 421, 3X2 inducted, 4 spd, and 4.11:1 posi-traction setup WAS a muscle car!!!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Older brother had a 67 GTO, 400, 4 speed.  Younger brother had a 65 GTO with a 455 auto. It had an old custom paint job and said "Paranoia" on both sides and a couple of stacks through the hood. I had a 73 Pinto that I had put a 289 in with a C4 trans.  All fun cars.

Horace

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Folks:

 

Couldn't take anymore of this thread without responding!  My favorite muscle car is the one I currently own and it is a 2016 Model.  Looks kinda like the older Challengers but is way more fun and a lot faster.  707HP, still don't know how fast it will go but I know how fast I have had it and that is exactly 100 MPH over the posted limit!!!!

Margarita Marie

 

Hellcat.JPG

Hellcat2.JPG

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Most of the real “muscle cars” that still ran and weren’t ruined never were “dime a dozen”!!!  The breed has held its value better than most commodities produced around that time period.

 

Remember!! The “muscle cars” were a small number of cars built especially for performance. They resembled their base and even deluxe brothers and sisters, but Mom’s four door Chevy Malibu WAS NOT a muscle car!! Neither was Uncle Dave’s six cylinder Barracuda!!

 

By the same token, Dad’s four door Bonnieville wagon with the Super Duty 421, 3X2 inducted, 4 spd, and 4.11:1 posi-traction setup WAS a muscle car!!!

Cudas, Camaros, Chargers, Mustangs, Nova's, Challengers, GTO's. They were everywhere when I was younger. A buddy had a Superbird he bought from his mom. Had two buddies with 69 Z28s. Another with a gorgeous black and white SS. He had at least six 427s in his dad's garage. There was no shortage here. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Michigan Slim said:

Cudas, Camaros, Chargers, Mustangs, Nova's, Challengers, GTO's. They were everywhere when I was younger. A buddy had a Superbird he bought from his mom. Had two buddies with 69 Z28s. Another with a gorgeous black and white SS. He had at least six 427s in his dad's garage. There was no shortage here. 

 

I didn’t say they weren’t plentiful! I said that they weren’t “dime a dozen”!!  The REAL “muscle cars” still brought premium prices, even during the great gas shortage and the pollution standards that followed. TRUE! You heard of the occasional sale of a Mustang GT or the Chevelle SS at some bargain price, but it was rare and often an over blown or urban legend tale.

 

As an example, my ‘65 442 sold for four times the price of three separate ‘65 Olds Cutlasses that were similarly equipped and in equal condition.

 

My ‘69 SS Chevelle sold for WAAAY more than my ‘68 Malibu, even though the Malibu had A/C, power windows, automatic transmission, power brakes, and cruise control! The SS had a four speed and didn’t even have power steering!!

 

That Pontiac Bonnieville/Safari wagon that I mentioned in my previous post, sold for $8,000.00 in 1975. That same year, I bought a brand new Chevrolet Nova SS for $3,700.00 off the lot at E.B. Smith Chevrolet In Nashville, TN. The wagon was a 1964 model!

 

In the early ‘70s, a guy I knew a little, who lived on US 231 highway between Murfreesboro and Shelbyville in Tennessee, owned two Daytona Chargers and a Super Bird. You could see them from the road and folks would stop in and inquire as to prices.  He wouldn’t sell!  I was told by a LEO friend of mine, fifteen years later, that when he finally sold those three, he paid cash for a three bedroom brick house with a full basement with the proceeds.

 

My three bedroom, brick without a basement sold for $38,200.00 in 1980!!!

 

Keep in mind too! I’m not talking about dressed up Chargers and Roadrunners or the run of the mill GTO or V8 Mustang.  I’m talking about Boss 429 Mustangs and 455 GS Buick Skylarks. I’m talking about Talledega Torinos and LS7 Chevelles, RPO Z11 Chevrolets and Thunderbolt Fairlanes, 440 Six Pack Challengers, Super Duty GTOs, and Hemi Chargers!! Don’t forget the 390 SC Rambler and the AMX!!

 

These and a few other examples were quite a bit more rare than the usual front of the line “trim and badging” cars that were sold by the dealerships as muscle cars to the general public.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

I didn’t say they weren’t plentiful! I said that they weren’t “dime a dozen”!!  The REAL “muscle cars” still brought premium prices, even during the great gas shortage and the pollution standards that followed. TRUE! You heard of the occasional sale of a Mustang GT or the Chevelle SS at some bargain price, but it was rare and often an over blown or urban legend tale.

 

As an example, my ‘65 442 sold for four times the price of three separate ‘65 Olds Cutlasses that were similarly equipped and in equal condition.

 

My ‘69 SS Chevelle sold for WAAAY more than my ‘68 Malibu, even though the Malibu had A/C, power windows, automatic transmission, power brakes, and cruise control! The SS had a four speed and didn’t even have power steering!!

 

That Pontiac Bonnieville/Safari wagon that I mentioned in my previous post, sold for $8,000.00 in 1975. That same year, I bought a brand new Chevrolet Nova SS for $3,700.00 off the lot at E.B. Smith Chevrolet In Nashville, TN. The wagon was a 1964 model!

 

In the early ‘70s, a guy I knew a little, who lived on US 231 highway between Murfreesboro and Shelbyville in Tennessee, owned two Daytona Chargers and a Super Bird. You could see them from the road and folks would stop in and inquire as to prices.  He wouldn’t sell!  I was told by a LEO friend of mine, fifteen years later, that when he finally sold those three, he paid cash for a three bedroom brick house with a full basement with the proceeds.

 

My three bedroom, brick without a basement sold for $38,200.00 in 1980!!!

 

Keep in mind too! I’m not talking about dressed up Chargers and Roadrunners or the run of the mill GTO or V8 Mustang.  I’m talking about Boss 429 Mustangs and 455 GS Buick Skylarks. I’m talking about Talledega Torinos and LS7 Chevelles, RPO Z11 Chevrolets and Thunderbolt Fairlanes, 440 Six Pack Challengers, Super Duty GTOs, and Hemi Chargers!! Don’t forget the 390 SC Rambler and the AMX!!

 

These and a few other examples were quite a bit more rare than the usual front of the line “trim and badging” cars that were sold by the dealerships as muscle cars to the general public.

 

And you are correct on all points. Except the AMC's! Lol. My God those things were ugly. They're bringing dollars though!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chevy was pushing their 409's until the 396/427 came out. You could get them from the factory in Corvettes, Malibu's and Chevelle's. Then Yenko, a southern dealer stuffed a 427 in a Camaro in 66. And they took off for sales. Chevy in its wisdom went oh crap and then started producing 396/427 Camaro's from the factory. A base Camaro, stripped with a 6 cyl and 3 speed went for around $2,000. A COPO base model with an aluminum 427, 4 speed etc went for around $6,500. Not many were sold. Today an original correct  numbers car would go for around $300K.

 

As to paying for houses a 3 bedroom house in California in 1980 would go for $130K. It's all about location.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We paid $111k in 1992 for our place that we remain (stuck) in today.
They go about $375k today in move-in shape.

Problem is, the ship leaving CA sailed 20 years ago... properties where we are interested are in the $600k and higher pricing.
And not selling.
I don't want to be 70 years old, starting another mortgage, so we stay here in the PRK, put up with the commies and suck on fire smoke.

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, bgavin said:

We paid $111k in 1992 for our place that we remain (stuck) in today.
They go about $375k today in move-in shape.

Problem is, the ship leaving CA sailed 20 years ago... properties where we are interested are in the $600k and higher pricing.
And not selling.
I don't want to be 70 years old, starting another mortgage, so we stay here in the PRK, put up with the commies and suck on fire smoke.

 

I'd rather have the mortgage, bgavin.  In all due respect, Sir.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Chevy was pushing their 409's until the 396/427 came out. You could get them from the factory in Corvettes, Malibu's and Chevelle's. Then Yenko, a southern dealer stuffed a 427 in a Camaro in 66. And they took off for sales. Chevy in its wisdom went oh crap and then started producing 396/427 Camaro's from the factory. A base Camaro, stripped with a 6 cyl and 3 speed went for around $2,000. A COPO base model with an aluminum 427, 4 speed etc went for around $6,500. Not many were sold. Today an original correct  numbers car would go for around $300K.

 

As to paying for houses a 3 bedroom house in California in 1980 would go for $130K. It's all about location.

 

Ike!! Yenko Chevrolet was in Cannonsberg, Pennsylvania. Don Yenko produced big block Novas too, as well as impressive high performance Corvairs and Corvettes.

 

The Camaro wasn’t released until 1967. The factory didn’t offer big blocks in Novas or Camaros until later, so several dealerships took it upon themselves to fill the demand. It didn’t take GM long to figure out where that demand was.

 

Nickey Chevrolet also produced big block Camaros too! (They displayed the K backwards in their logo and publications!)

 

My uncle, the head salesman for a rural Chevrolet dealer just outside of Nashville, got the first ‘67 Camaro in the Nashville area. A gold SS with the RS trim package, a 350/4spd with the 12 bolt rear end and a black vinyl top! It was his demo vehicle. He swapped it for a Z28 midway through the year.

Edited by Blackwater 53393
Link to post
Share on other sites

You are correct. I was doing the condensed version, Dana Chev, Yenko, Niki, took the lead for creating factory race cars.

Ford really went out there with the Thunderbolt. Fiberglass fenders, hood, doors, bumpers etc. IT's only problem was the engine was a Ford!

 

I remember being at Lions Drag strip, SO, Calif. and everyone standing around a Chevelle. It had a 396 on it. Everyone was what is that and where do i get one?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Those early sixties “factory production” super cars were really something else! The Ford Thunderbolts were built in direct competition to the Dodge and Plymouth Max Wedge and Hemi Coronets and Belvederes and the Pontiac Super Duty and RPO Chevy Super Sports!  Fiberglass hoods, doors, and trunk lids flourished in the Chrysler camp and aluminum body parts and bumpers rolled out of the GM factories.  The RPO Z11 Chevy had aluminum doors, fenders, hood, and deck lids. Even the bumpers and brackets were aluminum!! They came with extra bracing in the suspension members including an extra upper control link on the rear end. They even ran brake backing plates that were made with expanded steel and brake drums drilled and hole sawed to lighten them and promote cooling.

 

The Ford faction not only produced the Thunderbolt 427, but introduced the Single Overhead Cam 427 as well. The NASCAR Galaxies featured aluminum body parts as well.

 

Chrysler stepped up the Hemi, increasing the displacement from 392” to 426” and offered it in previously mentioned ultra light, stripped to the bare minimum cars that had floorboards and structural members that they didn’t even paint, just to save weight! Some only had a bucket seat for the driver and small floor mats to further reduce weight. Some of those bodies were even acid dipped!!

 

The Super Duty Pontiacs were much the same as the Chevrolets! Aluminum everywhere and the 421 SD engine, a bored and stroked version of their 389.  These are/were radical engines that made phenomenal horsepower and torque!

 

The Chevy RPO Z11 was a more radical version of the 409. It displaced 427 cubic inches and featured a lightened, strengthened valve train, and a two piece high rise intake with two carburetors!

 

 Most dynamometers of the day weren’t capable of measuring the power some of these engines produced!  All the manufacturers intentionally underrated their output for reasons like insurance, government regulations, and to get the advantage of performance at the track!

 

To the corporations, winning was everything!  “Win on Sunday! Sell on Monday!” was the mantra! Each one took turns at oneupmanship and as time went on, each officially dropped out of racing and, with a wink and a nod to their engineers, allowing remarkable research and development to proceed while they dodged all of the pitfalls that open competition presented.

 

I got to grow up in that era and learned to work on and even participate in some of those development projects! I am and will be forever grateful for that!

Edited by Blackwater 53393
Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a 69 Mustang Mach 1 428 Super Cobra Jet 4 speed when I was in high school in the early 70’s. It was the fastest car at my school! Raced a 70  Dodge Charger 440 with 3 deuces for the title one night. I ducked him for months as I thought he would kill me but got shamed into racing him one night by my school mates. We had a 1/4 marked off on a road out in the country we always used. Ate him up out of the hole & beat him by 4 car lengths! Wish I still had her! My folks would have killed me if they knew! Right now I’m having a 69 Corvette Stingray being restored. It’s a 350 hp 350 4 speed. Should be done next year!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/6/2020 at 6:01 PM, Blackwater 53393 said:

Most of the real “muscle cars” that still ran and weren’t ruined never were “dime a dozen”!!!  The breed has held its value better than most commodities produced around that time period.

 

Remember!! The “muscle cars” were a small number of cars built especially for performance. They resembled their base and even deluxe brothers and sisters, but Mom’s four door Chevy Malibu WAS NOT a muscle car!! Neither was Uncle Dave’s six cylinder Barracuda!!

 

By the same token, Dad’s four door Bonnieville wagon with the Super Duty 421, 3X2 inducted, 4 spd, and 4.11:1 posi-traction setup WAS a muscle car!!!

That must have been the ultimate sleeper. I didn’t know they made those with 3 deuces!

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Canton Chris said:

That must have been the ultimate sleeper. I didn’t know they made those with 3 deuces!

 

That was a factory ordered car , intended for the drag strip!!  It was pretty impressive when he put the slicks on and took it to the strip!!  It would often lift the front wheels and carry them in first gear!!  I know he did a bunch of work to it, but even in stock trim it was a beast!!

 

The same guy had a '67 Corvair that ran a 185 hp turbocharged flat six!!  That was a pretty sporty little coupe and it often embarrassed some of the local street racers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/7/2020 at 9:59 PM, Canton Chris said:

I had a 69 Mustang Mach 1 428 Super Cobra Jet 4 speed when I was in high school in the early 70’s. It was the fastest car at my school! Raced a 70  Dodge Charger 440 with 3 deuces for the title one night. I ducked him for months as I thought he would kill me but got shamed into racing him one night by my school mates. We had a 1/4 marked off on a road out in the country we always used. Ate him up out of the hole & beat him by 4 car lengths! Wish I still had her! My folks would have killed me if they knew! Right now I’m having a 69 Corvette Stingray being restored. It’s a 350 hp 350 4 speed. Should be done next year!


So if you suddenly won a Charger how did you explain that to your folks?

 

Seamus

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Seamus McGillicuddy said:


So if you suddenly won a Charger how did you explain that to your folks?

 

Seamus

I beat him, but we weren’t racing for pinks! Lol

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/4/2020 at 4:57 PM, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

 

Also invented intermittent windshield wipers and the automatic headlight dimmer!!

 

Come to think of it, he invented anti-lock brakes too!!! :o :ph34r: :lol:

Image result for Lucas Smoke In a Jar

  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of our folks KNEW we were street racing!!  I managed to keep my license because I never had a reckless driving ticket nor was I ever cited for drunk driving.

 

My father was a cop!  He’d take care of a ticket for anyone in the family BUT ME!!

 

The day I got my license, he told me he wouldn’t help fix a ticket for me. “You get a ticket, you handle it yourself!!”

 

Most of the patrol officers on my side of town knew me and knew my car.  A few of ‘em cut me some slack but most were harder on me than other guys.

 

It was a different time back then! If you outran the cops, you usually got away with it!  If they lost sight of you, they would break off pursuit unless there was some other crime involved. They might make it harder on you if they caught you another time, but mostly they forgave if not forgot.

 

We had a full basement with a complete shop at the house and I started fixing cars before I was a freshman in high school. I also had a few cousins and an uncle or two who hooked me up with the guys who did the real racing stuff.  I should add that my dad drove Champ cars and stock cars at the local circle tracks.

 

Dad had been promoted out of patrol and had reached the rank of Court Officer in the Criminal Court in Nashville.

 

One morning he was summoned down to General Sessions Court.  When he arrived, he was directed to the judge’s chambers. It wasn’t good...

 

When I got home from work that night, he was waiting up for me. He informed me that the judge had torn him a new one and sent me a personal message! “You tell that boy of yours that if he don’t stop embarrassing my officers, I’m gonna‘ send the entire third watch to your house and have them haul his ass to jail! AND!! I’m gonna impound that damned car of his and have it crushed!!”

 

 I laid low for a few months and I changed the appearance of the car.

 

I partnered up with a friend who had lots of money and a really BAD ‘65 Corvette. We raced all over the city and on two different occasions, drove somebody’s car home with ours. 

 

You always sold it back to them, usually after holding on to it for a week or two.  Sometimes, if it was a rich kid, you’d hold out ‘til their folks ponied up a bit more cash, but usually it was $500.00 or a thousand bucks to buy back your car.

 

By the mid ‘70s, it had become a whole different world!  By the early eighties,  street racing as we knew it was dead for the most part.  A few guys began racing full on race cars on the street and the rest of us either retired or took it to the sanctioned tracks.

 

Sometimes I forget that it’s been over fifty years since the journey began!  And I STILL go traffic light to traffic light now and then!!

 

 

 

Edited by Blackwater 53393
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Canton Chris said:

I beat him, but we weren’t racing for pinks! Lol


Sorry, CC, I saw “title” in your story and thought that referred to pink slips. You always hear stories about such races but I wonder how often it really happened. That would be a VERY tough one to explain to your parents!

 

Seamus 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great topic!

 

So let's start with the fact that muscle cars, pony cars & sports cars have 3 pedals!

 

My favorite formerly owned vehicles that meet that criteria are: 

  1. 1970 1/2 Z-28 Camaro with 350 LT1, M-22 Rock Crusher 4 speed and 3.73 12 bolt posi.
  2. 1976 Datsun 280Z, 4 speed. 

I had others that came close but they either lacked 3 pedals (1965 Mustang, 1972 El Camino) or had 3 pedals but were underpowered (1964 Falcon Ranchero, 6 cylinder, 3 on the tree).

 

My current crop that have enough muscle, 3 pedals and are licensed & drivable:

  1. 1972 El Camino, HP 350, 4 speed.
  2. 2015 Mini Countryman, turbo charged, 6 speed and every suspension upgrade that I could order through the factory. 
  3. 1963 Toyota Land Cruiser, 3 speed on the floor powered by a 1963 327 Corvette small block.

I have a number of other project cars/trucks awaiting a little love & a serious cash infusion. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ll have to take exception with the three pedal requirement! I’ve run both manual and automatic cars on the street and strip. 

 

I can say with total confidence that more than one, (read that as many as not) of my cars were faster and more consistent with an automatic transmission, including a couple of multiple NHRA and IHRA world record holders!!

Edited by Blackwater 53393
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I’ll have to take exception with the three pedal requirement! I’ve run both manual and automatic cars on the street and strip. 

 

I can say with total confidence that more than one, (read that as many as not) of my cars were faster and more consistent with an automatic transmission, including a couple of multiple NHRA and IHRA world record holders!!

3 pedals is just my personal preference! But I have a couple of slush boxes parked in the shop right now that are also fun to drive. My youngest son has his 71 SS/RS Camaro 350 with a 350TH trans here and my oldest gave me back the 83 Z28 I built for him (350 with 700R4 trans) after he drove the wheels off of it. The drive train in the 83 Z28 will eventually be dropped into the 56 Chevy truck I am building for my wife. 

 

I know that automatics can be great, and there is no way humanly possible to shift gears as fast and as efficiently as the new computer controlled transmissions like the Hellcat run. BUT... 707 HP with a six speed manual trans is a ton of fun. I have some time in automatic and manual Hellcats. I would buy the manual. But that's just me.

 

Your NHRA and IHRA records are something I don't have, I am impressed.    

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

It was a different time back then! If you outran the cops, you usually got away with it!  If they lost sight of you, they would break off pursuit unless there was some other crime involved. They might make it harder on you if they caught you another time, but mostly they forgave if not forgot.

 

In the late 60's, I was a "parts runner" for our family owned garage in a small town. I would have to go 20 to 50 miles away to get parts and they were always needed in a hurry. So there were a few occasions where I was pursued and evaded the State Police on back country roads (I was never caught). As I used a "company vehicle", I could not be personally identified. 

 

So, my cousin, who was a few years older and a very conservative driver, got pulled over a few times by the State Police to see who was driving the vehicle. As he was not speeding, he never got ticketed but I was certain they were trying to find out who I was!:ph34r:

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Ethan Cord said:

3 pedals is just my personal preference! But I have a couple of slush boxes parked in the shop right now that are also fun to drive. My youngest son has his 71 SS/RS Camaro 350 with a 350TH trans here and my oldest gave me back the 83 Z28 I built for him (350 with 700R4 trans) after he drove the wheels off of it. The drive train in the 83 Z28 will eventually be dropped into the 56 Chevy truck I am building for my wife. 

 

I know that automatics can be great, and there is no way humanly possible to shift gears as fast and as efficiently as the new computer controlled transmissions like the Hellcat run. BUT... 707 HP with a six speed manual trans is a ton of fun. I have some time in automatic and manual Hellcats. I would buy the manual. But that's just me.

 

Your NHRA and IHRA records are something I don't have, I am impressed.    

 

Been years ago now, but we campaigned a D Super Stock ‘69 Camaro back in the late eighties. It was a 4spd. car when we got it. (It actually had a Doug Nash/Richmond 5spd in it.) We swapped in a 400 turbo with an ATI trans brake and it ran almost a tenth faster. 

 

We were doing R&D for ATI at the time. One weekend we swapped in one of our PowerGlide units and picked it up another .05 seconds!

 

One of our Super Gas cars, a ‘62 Nova, had a seat in the passenger position.  It was a full chassis car with a 462” big block and a PowerGlide. We won several bets with the stick shift guys by taping a hundred dollar bill to the dash and betting that they couldn’t reach up and grab the bill before the car was shifted into high gear!

 

Nobody ever grabbed that hundred! Those cars would really leave!!  I nearly knocked myself out the first time I drove a PG with a trans brake. I was used to launching with my hand on the shifter, leaning forward as I dumped the clutch.  That first pass with the two speed, my head slammed back against the seat so hard that I saw stars!! Took me a couple of passes to get comfortable with leaving with my head against the head rest!

Edited by Blackwater 53393
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.