Hoss Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just curious, how many of you shoot at clubs that have a LTO? I know what the rules say, but at least where I shoot LTOs are rarely seen. At most somebody may say “check my pistol” but that’s about it. One club used to insist on dedicated LTO, and only one person loading at a time. They seem to have relaxed that policy over the last couple of years. For the record, Every club I shoot at requires a ULT. often the previous shooter stays to clear the next shooter. I’m curious if this is a regional thing or pretty much everywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null N. Void Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 UTO are universal. Rarely see LTO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 34 minutes ago, Null N. Void said: UTO are universal. Rarely see LTO. Pretty much the same around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Seeing less LTO around here as well. Usually due to lower Posse numbers. We try to check each other however. But that doesn't always happen either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Hangtree Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Same at our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 About the only place that I've seen a dedicated LTO was the Iowa State match. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 There have been "stories" of LTO Nazi's who wouldn't let you touch your guns unless they saw every round. Only one could load at a time. LTO's who touched guns to check etc. When we realized that an LTO has absolutely no responsibility for whatever happens when loading, IE too many rifle rounds, hammer down on live round, rifle at half cock, we said we didn't need one. We look at it like this, if a shooter owns the stage and their decisions the same thing applies to loading. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Wheeler Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Prior to the 2020 Pandemic, all of the clubs that I shot at would have a dedicated LTO. Present day, most still do, except for one club. There, you load, and the TO checks both pistols before proceeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polecat Joe Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 If the posse's are large enough we have a officer on both tables. If the posse is small there will always be a UTO . It's our club rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Null N. Void said: UTO are universal. Rarely see LTO. Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Angus McPherson Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Every match I've ever shot had a LTO. Never seen a LTO "nazi", either. Angus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Two NJ local clubs, a LTO and an ULTO at every match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Null N. Void said: UTO are universal. Rarely see LTO. Another vote for this ^ (UTO is the previous shooter unless we have someone on the posse who is physically unable to perform other duties and volunteers to be the dedicated UTO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said: Another vote for this ^ (UTO is the previous shooter unless we have someone on the posse who is physically unable to perform other duties and volunteers to be the dedicated UTO) This X2 OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Guns are expected to be loaded after the shooter leaves the LT. If not, what is the harm. Guns are expected to be unloaded after the shooter leaves the ULT. If not, I don't want to be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 We try to have a loading table officer 100% of the time. But sometimes nobody will step up and relieve the table guy. Then we have another shooter at the table check the next guy. I check for number of rounds loaded and hammers down on empty. And sometimes I catch one that didn't end up down on empty. Another violation I watch for is shooters strolling back to their carts with loaded pistols. Experienced guys are as bad as new guys when it comes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 All of the clubs I shoot at have a LTO & UTO. Every once in awhile while people are shifting positions to take over a spot where someone has to leave to get ready to shoot you might not have one. Then the shooters at the LT just check each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Most of the time, our UTO is going to be the guy shooting cap n' ball. We rarely have a LTO at a monthly match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Never use an LTO, but always have an UTO. The shooter has to have some responsibility or perhaps they don't need to be shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 We use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Shark Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 For most of the clubs where I shoot, when the posse is big enough, we assign an LTO, otherwise those on the loading table check each other. We always have an UTO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkey Flats Jack Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 A dedicated LTO is rare at the matches that I attend even when there's 20+ people per posse. What is normal for us is the shooter loading behind you checks your pistols before you holster. It seems to be more of an honor system though and many times I have to ask to be checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 The last time I saw a dedicated LTO is it was because we had a couple of green shooters on the posse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 23 hours ago, Shooting Bull said: Another vote for this ^ (UTO is the previous shooter unless we have someone on the posse who is physically unable to perform other duties and volunteers to be the dedicated UTO) Yep, and/or whomever is returning the shooters brass 11 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said: A dedicated LTO is rare at the matches that I attend even when there's 20+ people per posse. What is normal for us is the shooter loading behind you checks your pistols before you holster. It seems to be more of an honor system though and many times I have to ask to be checked. Yep, at the shooters meeting we are reminded that everyone is a LTO, once you have checked the pistols, rifle, and SG shells of shooter in front of you then their on their own. Last shooter gets checked by shooter in front or who ever is wandering by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Ramblin Gambler said: The last time I saw a dedicated LTO is it was because we had a couple of green shooters on the posse. I usually ‘task’ a specific person with monitoring a new shooter at the LT for each stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Ramblin Gambler said: The last time I saw a dedicated LTO is it was because we had a couple of green shooters on the posse. 28 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: I usually ‘task’ a specific person with monitoring a new shooter at the LT for each stage. At my first full shoot, everyone was tasked with checking my loading. I was good with that. And for new shooters, if you are not comfortable watching every move you make getting watched like a hawk, feel free to ask for help. Work on being able to explain clearly and step-by-step how to prepare each of your firearms for a course of fire. If you lose your place, there is nothing wrong with completely unloading and starting over. There is nothing wrong with laying the right number of rounds out for each firearm. And the same goes for the unload table. For instance, if you are suddenly unsure if this is your second or first revolver, check the other again. If there is anything that makes you nervous about being watched, then ASK! Get comfortable with being watched, and when you no longer care at all then you are approaching the point where you can check someone else. Or even show someone else how to do it, though teaching is a different set of skills; Not everyone is a good teacher. Fortunately, I really am very comfortable with being watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 Absolutely a first time shooter is assigned an experienced shooter to monitor him from gun cart to loading table, then loading table to firing line. Turned over to TO. Then when done escorted to ULT, cleared and taken back to guncart. Remind them to breath ! Usually they have a big silly looking grin on their face! We stay with them for as many stages (or matches) as needed until they are comfortable with the procedure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 been seeing less and less loading table - seems we are to scope out the person behind but seldom happens , it would be the place to put that person on a stool if there is one -as there often is at my shoots , i like the unloading manned by last shooter - no reason to hurry away your done shootin , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 10 hours ago, watab kid said: been seeing less and less loading table - seems we are to scope out the person behind but seldom happens , it would be the place to put that person on a stool if there is one -as there often is at my shoots , i like the unloading manned by last shooter - no reason to hurry away your done shootin , There is a problem with this. If the last shooter didn't have time to take guns to cart, which is often the case, and anyone has gun problems, that makes three sets of guns on the ULT. I think that is too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 17 hours ago, John Kloehr said: If you lose your place, there is nothing wrong with completely unloading and starting over. There is nothing wrong with laying the right number of rounds out for each firearm. One of these helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 1:04 PM, Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372 said: Never use an LTO, but always have an UTO. The shooter has to have some responsibility or perhaps they don't need to be shooting. You are 100% correct!! When we used to have them they didn't watch anyway! The UTO is the one that is needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Our bylaws REQUIRE both the LTO and the UTO. But with C-19 panic cutting our numbers recently, we have had some shoots with less than 13 total participants. So this past year, we have not always had an LTO. But we always have a UTO. We have cut the spotters down to two sometimes, since we do not have any big matches. Let's hope that we get more shooters in 2021. Mustang Gregg, [MD, PR, Welder, Carpenter] Lincoln Area Regulators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingSnake Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Been shooting CAS in Arizona for 10 years and have never seen a LTO. Have had a couple shooters ask me to check their revolvers at Winter Range, but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 When I started shooting CAS in SASS events back in 2002 there seemed to be both LTO and UTO but that has changed over the years and now I rearely see a LTO. Have shot in about 15 different states and it sometimes was more determined by region or size of the match (state or above). As far as the UTO that is sometimes a person who stays there but now I see more of each shooter stays and unloads the next shooter behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 1:07 PM, Shooting Bull said: ... unless we have someone on the posse who is physically unable to perform other duties and volunteers to be the dedicated UTO. And sometimes he volunteers to be the dedicated LTO, and that's cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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