In flight refueling ponder

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Please forgive me Alpo, I know it’s your job to ponder but....

 

when there is a flight of several planes such as the B2 or B52 going halfway around the world, they obviously need refueling.  How many tankers are used?  And is it a different set of tankers each time?

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

We have 20 operation B2 bombers.

All are stationed at Whiteman AFB.

21 were deliverd but 1 caught fire on Guam (corrected, not Diego Garcia) and burned to the ground.

On board fuel gives about 6800 to 6900 miles.

In air refueling from air tankers gives another 6000 miles.

We have tankers stationed all over the world.

Refueling takes place going and returning.

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The B52 set a record flying over 12,500 miles without refueling.

It can fly almost 9000 miles carying 70,000 pounds of weapons..

B52s are station around the world so refueling is not needed as often unless the plane is returning to the USA for some reason.

 

 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

If say 10 B2s are going on a mission, how many tankers will be used to refuel them? Surely not one? Five?

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

KC 135 air tanker carries up to 29,000 gallons for refueling.

Some of these tankers have 3 refueling systems.

A center boom and two wing drogue hoses.

With the drogues they can refuel 2 planes at a time but not the large planes do to wing width.

 

The KC 135 has refueled up to 3 small planes at once but is not normally practiced because they are very close together.

 

Depending on mission distance, tankers are staged along the route.

The KC 135 has a range of about 4,400 miles on it's own on board fuel.

 

 

[Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022]

Depending on speed, altitude, winds, flight weight, the B52 burns about 35  - 41 pounds of fuel per nautical mile. fuel load is 312,197 pounds or so. Jet A or A-1 weigh about 6.7 pounds per gallon. A KC-135 with full transfer volume can transfer about  194000 pounds of fuel. A full refill would take 2 KC -135 tankers leaving a smidge for flying time to transfer that fuel at 6500 pounds a minute.

[Eyesa Horg]

Interesting info, Thanks

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

8 hours ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

We have 20 operation B2 bombers.

All are stationed at Whiteman AFB.

21 were deliverd but 1 caught fire on Diego Garcia and burned to the ground.

On board fuel gives about 6800 to 6900 miles.

In air refueling from air tankers gives another 6000 miles.

We have tankers stationed all over the world.

Refueling takes place going and returning.

------------

The B52 set a record flying over 12,500 miles without refueling.

It can fly almost 9000 miles carying 70,000 pounds of weapons..

B52s are station around the world so refueling is not needed as often unless the plane is returning to the USA for some reason.

 

 

The B2 that crashed was on Guam and it stalled during takeoff.It was in 2008.

[Alpo]

9 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Please forgive me Alpo, I know it’s your job to ponder but

That was a most excellent ponder. You have my forgiveness for stepping into my territory.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

So, if a flight of six BUFFs need to be refueled, they will rendezvous with six tankers at least once. Right?

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

B2 crash on Guam.

I remembered wrong. Guam is correct. Thanks.

I will correct it above.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

12 minutes ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

B2 crash on Guam.

I remembered wrong. Guan ios correct. Thanks.

I will correct it above.

Wasn't meant to demean you for sure. I worked in aerospace for 40 years and was on the B2 proposal team and design/manufacturing program from the beginning. I follow aerospace news and discussion regularly. 

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

I took it as a needed correction.

Nothing more.

I remembered wrong.

I can do that at times.

 

I am just a follower of air and sea craft.

Currently building functional RC submarines.

 

George Washington 1/144 scale 31.75" (currently being modified)

 

Skipjack 1/72 scale 42.25" (running for several years)

 

Akula II 1/125 scale 34.50" (Kit boat running for 4 years)

 

 

Gato 1/72 scale 52" (built and currently in water trimming)

 

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

1 minute ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

I took it as a needed correction.

Nothing more.

I remembered wrong.

I can do that at times.

 

I am just a follower of air and sea craft.

Currently buiilding functional RC submarines.

 

George Washington 1/144 scale 31.75" (currently being modified)

 

Skipjack 1/72 scale 42.25" (running for several years)

 

Akula II 1/125 scale 34.50" (Kit boat running for 4 years)

 

 

Gato 1/72 scale 52" (built and currently in water trimming)

 

 

Those are awesome!  Especially like the Gato. Can any of them submerge?

 

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

They are all RC.

And they all will run submerged.

There are 3 different ballast systems.

From very old system about 20 or so years old.

The GW being modified to newer sysytem.

The newest system is in the Akual II which is a controllable piston.

 

The answer to the question of "How deep will it go?" is all the way to the bottom.

It's getting it back that is the trick.

Most running is periscope depth to maybe 12".

Any deeper and you can not tell what it is doing and usually can not see it.

I have never lost a boat to the bottom.

I have lost a boat to the weeds down 18".

It was retreived by the park ranger and his aluminum row boat.

 

 

 

[DeaconKC]

Cliff, those are just fantastic!

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

19 minutes ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

I took it as a needed correction.

Nothing more.

I remembered wrong.

I can do that at times.

 

I am just a follower of air and sea craft.

Currently building functional RC submarines.

 

George Washington 1/144 scale 31.75" (currently being modified)

 

Great hobby.

 

need something like a U-boat on the bottom of a fish tank.  ))))

[Sedalia Dave]

When I was in the Navy the typical plan was to schedule mid-air refueling long before the tanks were dry. That way if an aircraft was taking on fuel was having issues they had plenty time to troubleshoot in the air or if necessary divert to an alternate landing site.

 

Occasionally the tanker would have issues and by refueling early and often a backup tanker could be made available. 

[Sedalia Dave]

Awesome models CH

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

google fish tank u-boats.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fish+tank+u-boats&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwix-rLqpf3rAhXJHjQIHWu2DxEQ_AUoAnoECAwQBA&biw=1467&bih=688

[Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022]

3 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

So, if a flight of six BUFFs need to be refueled, they will rendezvous with six tankers at least once. Right?

The B-52 have to get there and back. A possible scenario: Six B-52H bombers stationed at Barksdale LA are missioned to Kabul Afghanistan. Assume a B-52H with max takeoff weight of 488,000 pounds,  flying circumpolar route at 45000 feet, 650 knots will have a range of about 7600 nautical miles. Circumpolar route from Barksdale to Kabul is about 7700 nautical miles.  Assume a  KC-35 out of Germany is the refueling plane. Refuel at about .40 good fuel Refuel takes about 30 minutes per KC-35 load. Mission calls for immediate return to Barksdale. SO figure each B-52H would have to refuel once going out, and once going back. Assume no major evasive maneuvers or damage to planes, so the six B-52s will need at least 12 tankers for mission. The USAF might also have one extra per refuel in-case a particular B-52 is consuming fuel at unusual rate.  A little known fact, the tanker is considered expendable, so should a tanker have to orbit awaiting flight, and upon refuel be short of fuel to RTB the plane is sacrificed rather than short the primary mission airframe.

[Doc X]

4 hours ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

I took it as a needed correction.

Nothing more.

I remembered wrong.

I can do that at times.

 

I am just a follower of air and sea craft.

Currently building functional RC submarines.

 

George Washington 1/144 scale 31.75" (currently being modified)

 

Skipjack 1/72 scale 42.25" (running for several years)

 

Akula II 1/125 scale 34.50" (Kit boat running for 4 years)

 

 

Gato 1/72 scale 52" (built and currently in water trimming)

 

 

Dang it! I do or have done almost any type of R/C you care to mention EXCEPT subs! Always told myself they were too darn expensive so I stayed away, but man that Gato is nice! Who's hull did you start with?

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

Doc X, you are right.

Expensive.

 

The Gato is the current project.

The hull built took about 5 days.

I have been working on the electronics for a year.

Mind you I have had 21 surgeries on my face, 1 major on my neck and back of head and both eyes during this time.

The issue is room.

Every thing has to go in a 2.5" diameter cylinder, 26" long. .  . and work.

1/3 is taken up by the ballast tank.

 

If I were to do this boat again, I would pay the money to get and complete cylinder system made by someone else.

 

The Gato is a Revell plastic hull kit that has been kit basked to work.

They are getting harder to find.

https://www.amazon.com/Revell-72-Gato-Class-Submarine/dp/B000FUUK6O

====================

I have build logs on each boat and each modification rebuild.

Here is the Gato build including things I did that did not work.

http://www.cliffhangershideout.com/Gato/Gato-log-1.html

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The Akula II is a complete kit that took 21 days to assemble and get running.

There was no building.

Just assembling.

All other boats are basically scratch built from a hull only made by others.

Skipjack is also a Revell plastic model.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

If you want more info, contact me directly.

<cliff_hanger@yahoo.com>

or

I administer a building forum where you can see others build and ask questions and get seeral answers.

https://www.subpirates.com/forum.php