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Johnny Swan, SASS #50322

Wtc pistol reload

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First time I ever remember this coming up. The stage had a pistol reload on the clock. Shooter runs his first pistol then pulls his second pistol, opens the loading gate, drops a round in the open chamber and shoots 6. The rule is that a pistol is supposed to be on an empty chamber when holstered or staged. We ended up calling it a no call because we couldn’t come up with an answer. Some felt that it was no longer on an empty chamber while others felt that it was in hand, down range and on the clock. What’s the call?

Swan

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Did he Re holster or stage the pistol after the sixth round was added??? (Before firing all six rounds)

Edited by Dakota Rambler

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2 minutes ago, Dakota Rambler said:

Did he Re holster or stage the pistol after the sixth round was added???

No, it was during the course of fire, the pistol didn’t leave his hand

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The answer can be found within the OP.

 

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You didn't mention this, but we are assuming he would have to rotate that empty cylinder chamber to the loading gate first, right?  If he just opens the gate and the empty hole is right there, then the hammer was down on a live round earlier.

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On the rare pistol reload, I shoot one, open the gate, drop one in the empty cylinder, close the gate and shoot 5. 
 

In the OP, if all he did was open the gate after drawing, and there was an empty cylinder there, then he had a live round under hammer. SDQ 

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11 minutes ago, Hoss said:

On the rare pistol reload, I shoot one, open the gate, drop one in the empty cylinder, close the gate and shoot 5. 
 

In the OP, if all he did was open the gate after drawing, and there was an empty cylinder there, then he had a live round under hammer. SDQ 

Talk about reading too much into the post. You know the point of the question, why muddy it up?

 

Anyone can have a live round under the hammer of yer pistols. Just don't move around when you do.

 

Oy

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7 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Talk about reading too much into the post. You know the point of the question, why muddy it up?

 

Anyone can have a live round under the hammer of yer pistols. Just don't move around when you do.

 

Oy

Well, as the OP reads, unless he teleported from the loading table To the stage, he moved with gun with live round under hammer. 

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5 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Talk about reading too much into the post. You know the point of the question, why muddy it up?

 

Anyone can have a live round under the hammer of yer pistols. Just don't move around when you do.

 

Oy

Read, learn

 

If having a pistol in hand with a loaded round under the hammer is a stage DQ then NO ONE COULD EVER FIRE A SHOT without a DQ

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5 minutes ago, twelve mile REB said:

Read, learn

 

If having a pistol in hand with a loaded round under the hammer is a stage DQ then NO ONE COULD EVER FIRE A SHOT without a DQ

Not talking about firing the shot, talking about moving with round under hammer 

 

Safe Conditions During a Course of Fire – Revolvers
Revolvers are considered SAFE for movement (in hand, while holstering, or while moving through a stage) and SAFE to leave the shooter’s hand in the following conditions ONLY:
- Hammer fully down on an empty chamber.
- Hammer fully down on an expended round. A revolver may not be originally
staged in this condition, but may be restaged in this condition.

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Read the question.  The shooter had already shot one pistol and had drawn the other to engage targets and then reloaded.  No movement other than drawing, opening the gate, rotating the cylinder and inserting a round.  No movement no staging no leaving the shooters hand.

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It does depend on the wording of the instructions. If it says that the shooter shall reload one round to engage the X target, then what the OP describes is legal. If the instructions read to engage the targets in ??? manner, then reload one round and engage the X target, then it would be a P for not following the instructions.

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18 minutes ago, twelve mile REB said:

Read the question.  The shooter had already shot one pistol and had drawn the other to engage targets and then reloaded.  No movement other than drawing, opening the gate, rotating the cylinder and inserting a round.  No movement no staging no leaving the shooters hand.

If that’s what he did, no call. But OP does not say anything about rotating the cylinder. Just says opened gated and dropped one in empty chamber

 

opens the loading gate, drops a round in the open chamber and shoots 6

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34 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Well, as the OP reads, unless he teleported from the loading table To the stage, he moved with gun with live round under hammer. 

You're reading something into the OP that isn't there... For I, and anyone with any manual dexterity can open a gate and have an empty chamber (not cylinder), aligned for the insertion of a sixth round. We did it quite often before your time in SASS.

 

You desperately want the OP to indicate that there was a live round under the chamber... Which isn't part of this discussion... totally irrelevant to the topic...

 

Oy...

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

...You desperately want the OP to indicate that there was a live round under the chamber... Which isn't part of this discussion... totally irrelevant to the topic...

 

Oy...

 

Actually, no.  I at least desperately want the OP to say, "Oh yeah, he turned the cylinder, I didn't think to mention that".  When I brought it up in the first place, I wasn't even thinking about moving.  I was thinking he might have left the loading table with a live round under the hammer.  Perhaps that point might need to be clarified before saying "Legal"

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Is there a couple pair of boxing gloves around here so we can settle this here and now?

 

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9 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You're reading something into the OP that isn't there... For I, and anyone with any manual dexterity can open a gate and have an empty chamber (not cylinder), aligned for the insertion of a sixth round. We did it quite often before your time in SASS.

 

You desperately want the OP to indicate that there was a live round under the chamber... Which isn't part of this discussion... totally irrelevant to the topic...

 

Oy...

I read the OP exactly as posted. But, I’ll try to make it so simple even a caveman could understand it. 
if shooter opened gate, manipulated cylinder to put empty chamber in gate, no call. 
if shooter opened gate, empty chamber was in way of gate, (without moving cylinder) it’s a SDQ. 

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9 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You're reading something into the OP that isn't there... For I, and anyone with any manual dexterity can open a gate and have an empty chamber (not cylinder), aligned for the insertion of a sixth round. We did it quite often before your time in SASS.

 

You desperately want the OP to indicate that there was a live round under the chamber... Which isn't part of this discussion... totally irrelevant to the topic...

 

Oy...

Isn't it OY VAY??? :lol:

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Is the pop corn ready yet?:lol:

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8 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Actually, no.  I at least desperately want the OP to say, "Oh yeah, he turned the cylinder, I didn't think to mention that".  When I brought it up in the first place, I wasn't even thinking about moving.  I was thinking he might have left the loading table with a live round under the hammer.  Perhaps that point might need to be clarified before saying "Legal"

I guess we now need to know if the shooter was inhaling it exhaling when when the reload was performed...

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Both

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1 hour ago, Hoss said:

I read the OP exactly as posted. But, I’ll try to make it so simple even a caveman could understand it. 
if shooter opened gate, manipulated cylinder to put empty chamber in gate, no call. 
if shooter opened gate, empty chamber was in way of gate, (without moving cylinder) it’s a SDQ. 

I'll try not be insulting to you... But if every minute detail that isn't relevant to the issue at hand is required (as you and your esteemed friend Abilene would indicate it is), WTC questions would be pages long.

 

I welcome your intellectual challenges if that's what you desire. See if you can hold your own with a "caveman"... You to Abilene.

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1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'll try not be insulting to you... But if every minute detail that isn't relevant to the issue at hand is required (as you and your esteemed friend Abilene would indicate it is), WTC questions would be pages long.

 

I welcome your intellectual challenges if that's what you desire. See if you can hold your own with a "caveman"... You to Abilene.

I kinda think the position of the empty chamber is relevant. But I know arguing with you is like arguing with a stump.

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While I agree that location of the empty chamber is relevant, in this case it may be easier to just assume he rotated to the empty!

Thinking about this post brought me back in from outside! I've always been under the impression that at no time can you have the hammer down on a live round with the exception of gun failure or a FTF due to a bad primer etc. From some of the replies above it seems that it is OK to load that 6th round before firing any, therefore having the hammer down on a live round. So am I correct now, that it's OK so long as that is the gun you are now engaging? Would be a bit faster than shooting one and then loading the empty chamber and continuing. More popcorn please!

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16 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

From some of the replies above it seems that it is OK to load that 6th round before firing any, therefore having the hammer down on a live round. So am I correct now, that it's OK so long as that is the gun you are now engaging? 

 

Yes, so long as the gun never leaves your hand(s). 

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1 hour ago, Hoss said:

I kinda think the position of the empty chamber is relevant. But I know arguing with you is like arguing with a stump.

Wow... First a "caveman", and now a "stump". Very Cowboy of you.

 

Here's the question at hand as stated in the OP: Some felt that it was no longer on an empty chamber while others felt that it was in hand, down range and on the clock. What’s the call?

 

Do tell how your concerns regarding the rotating (or lack of), of the cylinder is relevant to this specific question.

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Dead topic; some people get their kicks giving or seeing penalties given some people don't.  So without a Foolproof method of determining the actual position of cylinder in question for myself and the caveman/stump it's just not a no call but something not even to be considered.

Assistant caveman/stump signing off     

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15 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Wow... First a "caveman", and now a "stump". Very Cowboy of you.

 

Here's the question at hand as stated in the OP: Some felt that it was no longer on an empty chamber while others felt that it was in hand, down range and on the clock. What’s the call?

 

Do tell how your concerns regarding the rotating (or lack of), of the cylinder is relevant to this specific question.

So far (at least) I haven’t gone 

 

289BA38E-D986-4A5B-9458-9426FDC08B1B.jpeg
 

On you.  (Yet :P.)
 

I think it’s relevant if he turned the cylinder or not. In the OP, it said he opened gate, inserted round in Empty chamber.no mention of rotating cylinder.  If he had 5 loaded, and pistol was properly indexed, then the empty chamber would be under the hammer. So unless he rotated the cylinder it had a live round under hammer. Clearly a rule violation. I’m not sure how I can be much clearer. 

Edited by Hoss
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8 minutes ago, twelve mile REB said:

Dead topic; some people get their kicks giving or seeing penalties given some people don't.  So without a Foolproof method of determining the actual position of cylinder in question for myself and the caveman/stump it's just not a no call but something not even to be considered.

Assistant caveman/stump signing off     

To be clear, I don’t get my kicks issuing penalties. Just answering a what if call. And I think it’s easy to determine the cylinder position in this case. Just ask the shooter if he rotated it. 

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You guys do make me chuckle. :):FlagAm:

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12 minutes ago, Hoss said:

So far (at least) I haven’t gone 

 

289BA38E-D986-4A5B-9458-9426FDC08B1B.jpeg
 

On you.  (Yet :P.)
 

I think it’s relevant if he turned the cylinder or not. In the OP, it said he opened gate, inserted round in Empty chamber.no mention of rotating cylinder.  If he had 5 loaded, and pistol was properly indexed, then the empty chamber would be under the hammer. So unless he rotated the cylinder it had a live round under hammer. Clearly a rule violation. I’m not sure how I can be much clearer. 

I fail to see what the purpose is for you to post your portrait here... but whatever.

 

I'm amazed that you completely ignored the question I posed in my last post. You seem to give more effort in insulting, or at least trying to insult, than you do in trying to address one's arguements.  I find this intellectually lazy.

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Ok phantom, Please answer this question and this question only:

 

shooter comes to line from loading table with revolver  loaded with 5 Rounds. Opens the gate. (No cylinder movement) empty chamber under the gate. Is there a penalty? 

Edited by Hoss

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30 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Ok phantom, Please answer this question and this question only:

 

shooter comes to line from loading table with revolver  loaded with 5 Rounds. Opens the gate. (No cylinder movement) empty chamber under the gate. Is there a penalty? 

Start a new WTC and I'll answer that for this hypothetical that you present has nothing to do with the OP of this thread...and good job maintaining your avoidance of answering my question with your Strawman;)

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