Shotgun: Ideal shot size for minimal ricochet.

["Big Boston"]

I don't particularly like it when the targets shoot back, and I don't think anyone else does either. Other discussions on this topic have focused on the target, and the theory of steel targets, I'd like to ask about shot size, does it make a difference. 

 

IOW: Does larger shot tend to ricochet more or less than smaller shot. Does hard lead shot ricochet more or less than soft low antimony shot?

 

The rules are: #4 lead birdshot or smaller, so the choice is fairly broad. #4, #5, #6, #7 1/2, #8 or #9 are readily available choices. 

 

BB

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

#8 or #9 low recoil. I've been using reclaimed for about a year. If yer gettin ricochet from SG targets you've got more problems that shot size. Good Luck

[J-BAR #18287]

Some clubs require 7 1/2 or smaller, I assume to reduce splash.  I like #8 because it patterns well in my cylinder bores

[Ace_of_Hearts]

At 1000 ft/sec even #2 shot will completely disintegrate when it hits steel. (Even soft steel)

Steel shot (Found in some reclaimed shot) will ricochet lead will not on properly set targets. Lead splatters. Steel shot will also bounce straight back with almost as much velocity as it  hit the surface of the target.

 

The target faces of shotgun targets need to have the lead build up removed periodically so that the lead build up does not increase the splatter off the target.

Targets that are not maintained and placement of the targets and the impact area of the splatter are the three causes of what may come back at you, not the size of the shot.

 

Shot size is a big concern where there are ariel targets to engage. The larger the shot the farther it goes, and in this case almost always over the berm.

 

[John Kloehr]

24 minutes ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

The target faces of shotgun targets need to have the lead build up removed periodically so that the lead build up does not increase the splatter off the target.

Google chi failed me. How does one do this?

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Here on the East coast where land is scarce, they like smaller shot (7 1/2 or small) since it does not go as far.  Plus it has less mass if it does get away or come back at you.

Softer lead generally would theoretically tend to smash (technical term )more on the target as well. 

 

For aerial targets, I like #9 but for knockdowns I like 7 1/2 (or a little larger if allowed on those ranges.)

[Ace_of_Hearts]

39 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

Google chi failed me. How does one do this?

Removing built up lead on steel targets is not an easy task.

Some melt it off by heating the target to 600+ degrees but this can take the temper out of hardened steel.

 

It you can do it outdoors (preferably on a windy day) you can grind it off. Be sure to wear the best mask you can find and make sure no noisy neighbors are around.

I do it out on the range. A generator and time is what it takes!

 

["Big Boston"]

1 hour ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

shotgun targets need to have the lead build up removed periodically so that the lead build up does not increase the splatter off the target.

I'm not in charge of the targets, but the surfaces are as rough as a cheese grater. I thought it was just cratering, but built up lead would be a better guess. i suppose after a while the surface gets coated and the new pellets cannot splatter because of the cushioning effect of the build-up, or ???

 

BB 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Shotgun targets get pitted with use, especially if the target is not AR500 steel.  Needs to be resurfaced to smooth it out again.   It's not lead coating that will throw back splatter.  It's small pits.

 

However, resurfacing steel is rather difficult to find someone who can do it, when you tell them that their is lead in the rough surface.  Haz material doncha know!

 

No reason to try to pick a shot size that "splatters less."   And if you tried to enforce a particular size, half your shooters would not be able to find that one size any given month.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Shot Size and Velocity are NOT the culprits.  The culprit is target DESIGN.  It's a case of simple physics.  Yes, Marsha, it really is science.  Any surface perpendicular to the firing line is going to induce Back-Splatter.  The worst offenders are "poppers."  Reactive targets are an open invitation to Back-Splatter.  Angle iron target frames for reactive targets invite back-splatter.  Lead Shot does not necessarily disintegrate on impact.  Oh, also shooting on a gravel base invites back-splatter.  Reactive targets are fun but do cause lots of back-splatter.  The only solution for shotgun targets is the same as other targets.  A stable target with the toe angled back away from the firing line which directs the shot DOWN.  Then put down old carpet remnants.

[J-BAR #18287]

35 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 Then put down old carpet remnants.

Or hay bales.

 

Or wood chips from your local tree trimmers.  If you live where there are trees.

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Everything splatters... Everything.

 

The challenge is directing the splatter to where you want it to go. If you know where it's going, you can control the impact.

 

Phantom

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

5 hours ago, "Big Boston" said:

I thought it was just cratering, but built up lead would be a better guess.

 

No.

 

Lead would scrape off with a knife.   Try it, you won't scrape off pits and ridges of steel target faces.  Just tear up your knife edge.  

 

KD shotgun targets are real bad about back splatter because the face is vertical and they get worse with pitting.   You have a hard time redesigning your existing KD  targets to be anything but vertical.  But with proper caution you can resurface them.

 

Bordertown sets lots of shotgun KD targets, and they are closer than just about anyone else's.  They capture some of the splatter with hay bales and plywood shields below the target, since most of the KDs are close to ground, so most splatter tries to go both down and back up range.  And they avoid any stand arms, legs, frame being exposed to shot.  

 

GJ

[watab kid]

based on the number of times ive been hit at the loading table or unloading table i doubt it matters much , "target load" shot is the common , the wad will knock down the target if aimed well , reclaimed shot is a mix but ive found it quite adequate for the application , mine came from a range that once sponcered state trap shoots for ATA , had no issues at all , 

[Dusty Boots]

“Oh, also shooting on a gravel base invites back-splatter.”  How does a gravel base Increase back splatter?

[Null N. Void]

It is rocks and the lead splatter off of the plate bounces off the rocks right back at you.  Around here, most of the ground is sand and we don't have that issue.  Angle iron stands seem to be the worst because of the flat surface.

 

[Snakebite]

I have no data to backup my opinion. But here it is... first thing, I believe that soft shot has less chance of feedback than hard shot. Next, I believe that smaller the shot has less feedback, but also presents less danger when it does. A faster velocity should also aid in the total destruction of the shot. Finally, as was said earlier. If your targets are set right and are in good shape, there should be little feedback. 

 

Snakebite

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

STEEL shot will rebound very strongly off of our steel targets.  Make sure no shooters EVER use steel shot shells in cowboy matches or practice, no matter how cheaply they bought them.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

+100 to Garrison Joe.

 

A lead projectile striking a steel target perpendicular to the direction of travel will be deflected in a 20 degree cone back towards the shooter. When this hits any other surface it is deflected again. If the surface is not perpendicular to the direction of travel then you have the makings of a bank shot.

 

Any 90 degree corner no matter how small, basically ensures that shot will return to the firing line if it is facing the shooter. I have see very few KD shotgun targets that don't have a plethora of 90 degree corners  as part of their design.

 

Rebar is the absolute worst at sending splatter back towards the firing line. All those tiny ridges guarantee it.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

10 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Rebar is the absolute worst at sending splatter back towards the firing line. All those tiny ridges guarantee it.

Actually Rebar is not the worst for directing splatter back towards the firing line. What makes Rebar bad is the fact that it sends splatter in too many directions which makes it hard to control the splatter. The directional randomness that the Rebar produces splatter is akin to having severely pitted target surfaces.

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Snakebite . . Unfortunately, your first three Premiss are incorrect.  Those elements have no real impact on Back-Splatter.  Your last observation is actually quite correct.  Target design and placement is key.  As is getting away from re-bar stands.

 

PLUS ONE too Phantom 

[Cholla]

So, just so we're clear, the targets aren't supposed to look like a cooking wok hanging on chain???

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

2 hours ago, Cholla said:

So, just so we're clear, the targets aren't supposed to look like a cooking wok hanging on chain???

I wish the ones I shot at only looked like a wok.  I sometimes encounter targets that would make a good wood rasp.  This is why I only shoot #8 or smaller shot.  Smaller shot hurts less when it hits my face.

[Snakebite]

4 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Snakebite . . Unfortunately, your first three Premiss are incorrect.  Those elements have no real impact on Back-Splatter.  Your last observation is actually quite correct.  Target design and placement is key.  As is getting away from re-bar stands.

 

PLUS ONE too Phantom 

Well it just seems like a soft pellet would flatten out much easier and have less feedback. I would rather get hit with the smaller shot than larger, and if the velocity is high, there is a better chance of the shot disintegrating against the steel plate. I'm not convinced that I'm wrong about it.