Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

45-70 Trapdoor's


Black RZR

Recommended Posts

This is one of my favorite rifles! I eventually want one but don't know enough. 73 or 84 seem to be the years I see. Original or reproduction?  What is the best way to go? Oh and I want the army model with the full foregrip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got a 73 carbine and an 84 rifle.   When all is said and done, I don't think there is any significant difference between one model or another.   The real difference is rifle/carbine.

My 84 rifle is a very accurate gun.  It is also very heavy.  After just a few shots it gets really heavy and all but impossible to hold steady offhand.

 

The 73 carbine on the other hand is a sweet handling gun, just as accurate as the rifle, and it does not become fatiguing to shoot after just a few shots.

 

On the other hand, the exact same load that was just fine in the rifle was a nasty shoulder thumper in the carbine.  Down right painful to shoot.   That prompted me to switch to a different powder, and now the gun is pleasant to shoot, just as accurate as it always was, and I have never regretted getting it.  

 

The Trapdoor is fun to shoot, don't hesitate to get one.  The only other variation of potential difference is a pre-73 one in .50-70.  Don't have one of those, and while I have seen a few over the years, only one of them looked like it was still in shootable condition.   But it was stupid expensive.  But that's a whole other discussion...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back in the day, the trapdoor firearm, in 45-70 government, came in the carbine, and rifle, variations.  From a book I have, it stated that the carbine was loaded to 55 grains of (black) powder, while the rifle was loaded to 70 grains of (black) powder.  Of course it was done that way because the carbine was lighter in weight, and would have had more pronounced felt recoil, if it had been loaded with 70 grains. But, the carbine can shoot either one. 

I have a reproduction, only because I found one on sale, and I sorta wanted one that was made with modern steels, and had a really great bore condition. 

I must say, some of the reproduction models, cost more than an original Springfield. Having said that...a pristine Springfield can be easily more expensive, than a reproduction.

It truly is one of my favorite rifles to shoot. It is very popular at the range too. I get lots of questions/attention, and lots of folks ask me if they can shoot it. 

You will not regret obtaining one.  It is an investment in fun.

 

W.K.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I've got a 73 carbine and an 84 rifle.   When all is said and done, I don't think there is any significant difference between one model or another.   The real difference is rifle/carbine.

My 84 rifle is a very accurate gun.  It is also very heavy.  After just a few shots it gets really heavy and all but impossible to hold steady offhand.

 

The 73 carbine on the other hand is a sweet handling gun, just as accurate as the rifle, and it does not become fatiguing to shoot after just a few shots.

 

On the other hand, the exact same load that was just fine in the rifle was a nasty shoulder thumper in the carbine.  Down right painful to shoot.   That prompted me to switch to a different powder, and now the gun is pleasant to shoot, just as accurate as it always was, and I have never regretted getting it.  

 

The Trapdoor is fun to shoot, don't hesitate to get one.  The only other variation of potential difference is a pre-73 one in .50-70.  Don't have one of those, and while I have seen a few over the years, only one of them looked like it was still in shootable condition.   But it was stupid expensive.  But that's a whole other discussion...

Back in the day, some cavalry company commanders requested rifle ammo be issued because it had greater range. A change to the front sight was also requested to compensate for the differences in the trajectories between the rifle and carbine loads.  I have not found any reports of the opinions of the troopers on the increased recoil of the hotter ammo.  As the stature of most cavalry troops was less than most modern men, it couldn't have been pleasant.  OTOH, except in some Indian Wars battles, there was very little practice done in the Army.  For a while only three rounds per man per month of .45-55 or .45-70 ammo was authorized!  It wasn't until the 1880's that target practice was given more importance.  To compensate for the small practice allowance in the 1870's, a number of the companies/troops retained a few of the Sharps cartridge conversions in .50-70 and M1866 Springfield's in .50-70 were utilized for target work and foraging (hunting to supplement the diet of the troops).  In 1875, Co. C, G and I had over 50,000 rounds of .50-70 on hand at Sidney Barracks, NE. Five of the M1869 Sharps carbines were on hand there in addition to the M1873 Trapdoor Carbines that were the standard issue. 

 

At least one of the Sharps are known to exist, having been acquired by a young civilian teamster working there.  He carved his name in the stock, and, although the documentation of the transfer of ownership hasn't been found, other records make it 95% certain this was one of the five Sharps! It was not uncommon for a civilian employee of the QM Dept., working in the field with the troops to "lose" items, have the cost deducted from their pay ($30/month + one meal a day), and some means of identification of the firearm done to distinguish it from the government owned pieces.  He would not have carved up a government piece, and wouldn't have autographed it if he had stolen it.

While not authentic, light smokeless loads loaded to the same muzzle velocity as BP are a bit easier on the shoulder.

Stay well, Pards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an original 73 Carbine, made 2nd qtr of 74. Of the correct serial number to be considered a “Custer” rifle but no provenance. It’s a good shooter. I have found it likes 405 bullets with full case of APP powder. A reduced load or lighter bullet it is not accurate. I enjoy shooting it. It is a bit of a thumper! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.