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bgavin

Josey Wales Matches or Stages

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Q:  When can a shooter opt to do JW style (5 revolvers) in lieu of shotgun and rifle?

Is this something done at local matches?
My thoughts are for somebody who still wants to participate, but the finds the shotgun "too much".

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Posted (edited)

Your local club may allow it; just have to ask your Match Director. It was a category at Tennessee State last year and probably will be going forward. If we have our annual at Green River next year I'm confident it would be allowed and certainlywould at a monthly.

Edited by Tyrel Cody
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We shoot it in April

 

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Posted (edited)

Ask the Match Director. Most are very accommodating.

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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Posted (edited)

I'm unclear how it works.

In my mind, I see a JW shot on the same stage, but using 5 revolvers, in lieu of rifle and shotgun.

Edited by bgavin
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Yes, JW is shooting the same scenario as everyone else, just using your five pistols instead of the normal mix of guns.

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Here in my Neck of the Woods, Josey Wales is a common category.  Monthly, Annual and State.  Shot with 5 handguns.  FUN!!  

 

Try it with 5 Cap Guns!!  Crazy Fun  :D

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We do it different. 4 pistols for pistol and rifle targets, no shotgun, single shot big bore rifle shot at targets set back further. Black powder and smokeless categories.

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We run it as a 3-stage mini-match for our annual shoot using 4 pistols.  We have open and women, and BP and smokeless categories.  Very popular event.

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4 hours ago, bgavin said:

I'm unclear how it works.

In my mind, I see a JW shot on the same stage, but using 5 revolvers, in lieu of rifle and shotgun.

Imagine, if you will, walking to the line carrying 5 pistols. One is staged where the lesser adventurous stage their shotguns. Two more are staged at the rifle location and two are conventionally worn holstered. At the beep...  Our club usually shoots the rifle and pistol target order the same so it is just a repetition on more distant targets, then engage the shotgun targets. Using a .44 or .45 with 200 gr bullets they almost always fall, as long as they are calibrated and functioning properly. Caveat- It can be confusing to stage 3 pistols at the same location, sometimes rifle and shotgun from the same place. It is actually helpful in this instance to shoot pistols with a different appearance, grips, barrel length,stainless or blued, or sights to make the grab for the next one easier. Identical pistols would be confusing, a lady had that exact problem last Sat. Usually I shoot my two Uberti cattlemen at pistol targets, two Blackhawks at rifle targets and a stainless, 10 1/2 inch Super Blackhawk at SG targets Now if you want to up the ante on challenging you could shoot all five from your person, my rig has 5 holsters but I only use three of them for carry to and from the line. On a stage with more than 5 SG targets you learn to load on the clock or take misses.

It is a lot of fun, can be amazingly fast if shot GF and will better your pistol shooting.

PM me if you want to know more about this, I am retired so Im available by phone if you want to talk.

 

Imis

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Here I'm using 5 pistols and shooting gunfighter.  I have one pair holstered left and right that I'll use on pistol targers.   I have a crossdraw holster to carry my "shotgun" pistol to the line and stage.   I carry two more loaded pistols grasp around cylinder with muzzles pointed up to line to use on the rifle targets.  I stage the three other pistols like I would have staged the rifle and shotgun.  

 

 

Here I shot the "rifle" targets first from the center window.  "Rifle" pistols restaged. Move to right window and drew "pistol" pistols from holsters. Shoot.  Reholster "pistol' pistols.  Move to left window.  Since shotgun count was 6,  I loaded the 6th round on the clock in the empty chamber of the "shotgun" pistol and shot shotgun targets in a double sweep.  End of stage.  Holstered "shotgun" pistol. Picked up two "rifle" pistols and headed to unloading table.  While watching brass picker-uppers look for brass.

 

I talked this over with the TO so we both know how I'm going to run the stage.

 

As I remember, I came out dead last in overall scores.  But had the most fun.

 

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Jed I. Knight put up a video of folks shooting other versions of "Josey Wales".   They all used shotguns and four pistols.  Most shot smokeless and two handed.  I think Jed I. Knight was the only one shooting black and gunfighter. 

 

 

Is it's an unofficial category,   there are no real rules. 

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I wish it were a "real category".  I envision it as 

 

1. Four pistols, all holstered. (to me staging the second set is just not appealing, takes away the whole Josey Wales flavor)

2. Shotgun as normal.

3. Must be shot 'double duelist' or gunfighter.

4. Any SASS legal main match revolvers.

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21 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I wish it were a "real category".  I envision it as 

 

1. Four pistols, all holstered. (to me staging the second set is just not appealing, takes away the whole Josey Wales flavor)

2. Shotgun as normal.

3. Must be shot 'double duelist' or gunfighter.

4. Any SASS legal main match revolvers.

 

Adding two more holsters would be cost prohibitive for me as I would only shoot Josey Wales once a year. 

I don't recall Josey Wales shooting a shotgun.  Maybe a single shot rifle shot at a gong out a ways?

Black powder or sub. 

 

Otherwise, I rather Josey Wales be left unofficial to allow shooters a better chance to come up with a combination that will work.  

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4 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

I rather Josey Wales be left unofficial to allow shooters a better chance to come up with a combination that will work.  

 

+1000000000000000000000000000

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Posted (edited)

We haven’t done one in quite a while. I found a 7.5 in vaquero to shoot along with my short bbl vaqueros whenever we do have one. As I didn’t like the ugly banged up aluminum ejector rod housing on the 7.5  and had a ss hsg from a  vaquero that I  shortened to 2.5 inches i used it but then it didn’t look right so I swapped things around, added stags and have some zebra vaqueros for Josie to shoot. ‘Dyin’ ain't much of a livin’.

0334DD49-0F03-4AF2-8DEA-F2A878C3C144.jpeg

Edited by Baltimore Ed
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Oh PLEASE  PLEASE  PLEASE keep SASS's nose out of Josey Wales.  The takeover of Wild Bunch by SASS just sterilized to CAS with a 1911.  Totally screwed Wild Bunch into the dirt.  LEAVE JOSEY WALES ALONE!!!

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3 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

Adding two more holsters would be cost prohibitive for me as I would only shoot Josey Wales once a year. 

I don't recall Josey Wales shooting a shotgun.  Maybe a single shot rifle shot at a gong out a ways?

Black powder or sub. 

 

Otherwise, I rather Josey Wales be left unofficial to allow shooters a better chance to come up with a combination that will work.  

I don’t recall Josey Wales staging pistols on a table. I do remember him carrying all of them, in holsters.

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Posted (edited)

He carried 2 walkers in his forward facing belt holsters outside his coat, another small colt in a rt hand shoulder holster and one in his belt sometimes inside or outside his coat without any holster that I can see. 

DE483A20-2F4B-4094-8256-805A6FCD519B.jpeg

Edited by Baltimore Ed
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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I don’t recall Josey Wales staging pistols on a table. I do remember him carrying all of them, in holsters.

I don’t recall that he had a gun cart either. I’m  not sure what your point is. 

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PLUS ONE too Abilene Slim

 

Kindly try and remember this is a "Fantasy Game" and Josey Wales is a "Fantasy Side Match."

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9 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

I don’t recall that he had a gun cart either. I’m  not sure what your point is. 

 

8 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

PLUS ONE too Abilene Slim

 

Kindly try and remember this is a "Fantasy Game" and Josey Wales is a "Fantasy Side Match."

I'm well aware of that.  I mentioned the use of a shotgun and the Warden 'shot that down' because he doesn't recall JW using a shotgun.  If his fantasy interpretation can include staging pistols, which JW never did, then mine can certainly include using a shotgun, which JW also never did.

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Posted (edited)

All this cas stuff is a fantasy game. Josey Wales is a character in a book ‘Gone to Texas’ written by Forrest Carter. Got no problem with that, grownups playing dress up with real guns, real boolits and steel targets.
Bang-Clang = Fun. 

Edited by Baltimore Ed

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Capt. Bill B.

 

Perhaps I miss=understood.  You wording indicated we should ALL be playing goes Wales with a Shotgun.  I see nothing wrong with a shotgun.  Why not if you prefer??  Staging the extra pistols is a practical and safety concern.  Too many holsters invites confusion for some.  

 

Again, having SASS stick their restrictive noses into Josey Wales would be an abomination.  Legislating out 5 handguns is stupid.

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Posted (edited)

Somebody had a pair of Walkers or Dragons in shoulder holsters.  There was a video. But the angle was all wrong to see how he pulled them out safely.  I'd like to see that demonstrated.  

 

 

 

Edited by Warden Callaway

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

Somebody had a pair of Walkers or Dragons in shoulder holsters.  There was a video. But the angle was all wrong to see how he pulled them out safely.  I'd like to see that demonstrated.  

 

 

 

I've got an old video of me doing transitions with four holsters.  Regular strong and weak side holsters with one LS crossdraw and one RS crossdraw inside them, but still separated by a fist.  I started with the LS crossdraw, then regular strong side holster, then RS crossdraw and finally regular weakside holster.  Not too tough.  I can't find it so I just did another one.

 

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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Slick.

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None of the MOV files will pay on my Android devices.  They download with some odd extra extensions.   I rename the file extension and can upload to YouTube and then.... 

 

I was looking for a double rig shoulder holster. 

 

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SO.  Because you own 4 matching Strong Side and Cross Draw, and prefer to shoot with a Shotgun, you think it a good thing to legislate 5 handguns out to exclude the folks who like to play the game with 5 handguns??  Kind of self aggrandizing aren't ya??  Normal match, stage the rifle.  Josey Wales, stage the handguns.  Normal match, stage the Shotgun.  Josey Wales, stage the handgun as shotgun.  What's the difference??  Except your opinion??

 

If you really wanna push the Josey Wales button, how about you trade in those SASS special Suppository shooters for a pair of Walkers??  And a an 1851 and an 1849.  Shoot Josey ALL Cap Guns.  Been there, done that.  5 Cap Guns.  It was super FUN.  I would not however, be so crass as to suggest that everyone shoot Cap Guns.

 

Nice Vid by the way.

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1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

SO.  Because you own 4 matching Strong Side and Cross Draw, and prefer to shoot with a Shotgun, you think it a good thing to legislate 5 handguns out to exclude the folks who like to play the game with 5 handguns??  Kind of self aggrandizing aren't ya??  Normal match, stage the rifle.  Josey Wales, stage the handguns.  Normal match, stage the Shotgun.  Josey Wales, stage the handgun as shotgun.  What's the difference??  Except your opinion??

 

If you really wanna push the Josey Wales button, how about you trade in those SASS special Suppository shooters for a pair of Walkers??  And a an 1851 and an 1849.  Shoot Josey ALL Cap Guns.  Been there, done that.  5 Cap Guns.  It was super FUN.  I would not however, be so crass as to suggest that everyone shoot Cap Guns.

 

Nice Vid by the way.

Well pilgrim, there's a lot to 'unpack' in that post.

 

First, thanks for the compliment for the vid.

 

I do not own 4 matching holsters.  I own a Rod Kibler set of Butt Kickers for NMV, and I own a set of RK straight drop holsters for OMV, which I keep around to loan out to the occasional new shooter.  I simply swapped sides with the Butt Kickers and put them in front of the OMV holsters.

 

I like the idea of Josey Wales as an approved category because that would hopefully mean more opportunities to shoot that way.  I would also like for it to be approved in a way that didn't place any additional requirements on Match Directors, or create dissension with other shooters.

 

I'm not looking to exclude anyone, but taking the JW category mainstream with five revolvers is going to present challenges, one is that there will be people who don't want that category eligible for the overall because the fifth pistol would presumably be loaded.  Another issue will be when you have six shotgun stages, or the occasional 8 shotgun stage. What about shotgun flyers?  We have ranges where a round over the berm is a MDQ, but that doesn't apply to shotguns. 

 

How do we resolve this if the JW shooter is using something other than shotgun?

 

With respect to the holsters, my concern is directed more towards the fact that most of the ranges where I've heard of JW being offered MANDATED that the second set of pistols be staged on a table.  Just personal preference for me, I would rather have them holstered.  If holstered or staged on a table were optional that would be fine with me.

 

I'm rather proud of my Jimmy Spurs SASS pistols, they shoot very well.  I'm also pretty happy with my wife's Single Six 32s.  I see no need to trade them in on any of the guns you suggested.  If you recall, I suggested that any SASS legal main match gun be acceptable.

 

I think the debate is probably of little value anyway as I don't believe there is much interest in a Josey Wales category anyway, unfortunately.

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7 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Another issue will be when you have six shotgun stages,

 

I loaded the 6th round on the clock before shooting the 6 shotgun targets.   I've not faced shooting more than 6. I'd probably just load on the clock.  We don't have a clay tosser.  I'd probably shoot into the berm to record the shot and take the miss.  

 

The two times I've shot Josey Wales,  I was the only one shooting it so there was no competition.  In fact,  I'm the only one at our club that will do it.  Others complained that I was having too much fun!

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@Captain Bill Burt

I have more than five pairs of Ruger Old Armies, and a gunbelt with four matching holsters - that you can borrow ........if you eat more (size 42).

 

Let's just go to the range one afternoon and give it a try.  We could set up one bay and practice.

 

It might not be wise, with all the World Champions on the Georgia circuit, to experiment with JW........during a match ....while they are getting their game on.

 

And did I hear a motion to dis-allow gun carts, or just those modern metal gun cart......what we gunna use....a unicorn ?  This is fantasy right? (sarcasm added for humor)

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Posted (edited)
Quote

Again, having SASS stick their restrictive noses into Josey Wales would be an abomination.  Legislating out 5 handguns is stupid.


Too late!
;)

 

IMO:

 

The first step in getting a "Josey Wales" category "officially recognized" would be the modification/deletion of the following rules:

Quote

Only two main match revolvers may be taken to the line

SHB p.30 "Loading and Unloading Area Conventions"

and

Quote

Please see the shooting categories for further information. No more than two main match revolvers may be carried to the firing line.

SHB p.39 "Revolver Requirements"

 

The "relaxing" of these regs for a "Josey Wales" category came up at a very early TG Summit as a possible agenda item.
The consensus (IIRC) was that the TG's are not responsible for regulating rules for any "unofficially recognized" categories...and left the issue in the hands of individual Match Directors.

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
edit txt
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1 hour ago, T-Square said:

@Captain Bill Burt

I have more than five pairs of Ruger Old Armies, and a gunbelt with four matching holsters - that you can borrow ........if you eat more (size 42).

 

Let's just go to the range one afternoon and give it a try.  We could set up one bay and practice.

 

It might not be wise, with all the World Champions on the Georgia circuit, to experiment with JW........during a match ....while they are getting their game on.

 

And did I hear a motion to dis-allow gun carts, or just those modern metal gun cart......what we gunna use....a unicorn ?  This is fantasy right? (sarcasm added for humor)

I would love to shoot a pair of your Old Armies, though I might need to hang a pair of your holsters on MY belt. It would take an infinite amount of time in the gym and about 100 lbs to be able to wear a 42.

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