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Kid Cali

Lever action choices - pros and cons

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not going to mince words - either the 1873 or the 1866 would be first choice , i have a lot of different levers and have shot most in this venue , while many others work fine these would be my recommendation to any new member , but we all have our preferences and so try before you buy , 

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Posted (edited)

Q: is anybody using The Smith Shop pivot carrier in their 1866 or 1873 Uberti?

Edited by bgavin

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Just now, bgavin said:

Q: is anybody using The Smith Shop pivot carrier in their 1873 Uberti?

You should probably start another topic to get more attention.

 

I assume you are talking about the Smith Shop carrier that allows the use of 44 Russian or Cowboy 45 Spl in a 44 spl/45 Colt rifle. I haven't used one of them but I know a couple that have with no issue. 

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Thanks.
I saw a mention of similar in the posts above, thought I would ask how well they worked out.

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I'm in New Zealand and the pickings for lever action rifle here is pretty slim. I'm just starting out and the only rifles on offer here for 1500 dollars or less are the rossi /puma 92 and the chiappa 92 in 357 or 44 mag. I'm definitely going 357 the ammunition is a lot cheaper here than 44.  Thoughts on these 2 rifles appreciated.  I should add we can get uberti 73 here but they are around 3000 dollars.  To much for me for now.

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Posted (edited)

Stating that something should be a first choice for a shooter might not work for everyone. The 1873 is the most widely used and for good reason. But…

 

Marlin is a widely known, well built, and respected rifle. Can also double as a good hunting rifle that will take higher pressure loads then just cowboy or SAAMI spec. There are plenty of Marlin gunsmiths in the cowboy world and they hold their resale quite well, especially JM stamped guns. They are offered in a multitude of calibers and can only not be used in one category, classic. I started with a Marlin and it's still a great rifle although I don't use it but I would not hesitate to use it were I not shooting classic. Plenty of shooters use the Marlin and routinly beat those who shoot the '73 well so it's not like a Marlin can't run fast, if that is your concern.

 

The 1860 Henry is certainly not widely used nor is it for everyone but it is a fantastic choice for those of us who love it for something different. Brass receiver or color case it is a fine choice for a cowboy shooter but beware of its differences and quirks. Most fun with BP. :D

 

The 1866 is also an excellent choice as it differs a little from the 1873 but not so much you can run them back-to-back with no change in "how to".  It also has a unique look that appeals to many and can run just as well as the '73. Just note that the '66 has a couple differences from the '73, a weaker loading gate ladle that can easily be remedied and no lever safety, if i remember correctly.

 

Edited by Dantankerous

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I have an 1894CB in 357 for SASS, and a Uberti 1873 in 44 mag exclusively for SASS, and just cuz I wanted a toggle-link rifle.

If I ever needed a 44 mag for full house loads, I'd give strong consideration to another Marlin, despite the Remlin problems.
The many advantages are noted by Dan above.
The Marlin is the only one I have found with blue (non color case) finish and the octagonal barrel.

 

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I won my first two Universal titles using my steal frame Uberti '60 Henry in 44W and for that reason it will always be my favorite SASS rifle BUT while I am still in dream mode I do wish I had another with the brass frame and a short barl in .45.  The best handling match rifle I own now is a shot out '73 short rifle in 45Colt that is now in bad need of some good action restoration.  I have considered sending it off for one more big try at the SASS Intergalactic Best In Match title!!!        

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6 hours ago, Blondie fraser said:

I'm in New Zealand and the pickings for lever action rifle here is pretty slim. I'm just starting out and the only rifles on offer here for 1500 dollars or less are the rossi /puma 92 and the chiappa 92 in 357 or 44 mag. I'm definitely going 357 the ammunition is a lot cheaper here than 44.  Thoughts on these 2 rifles appreciated.  I should add we can get uberti 73 here but they are around 3000 dollars.  To much for me for now.

Blondie, welcome to the place and CAS. I have a Rossi 92 in .357 and it is a nice little rifle. The lesser price reflects less finishing that other [more expensive] rifles show. Mine feeds any .357 rounds, but doesn't like .38s that are under 158 grains, doesn't feed them well. It was a nice enough little gun that I bought one in .45 too.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/31/2020 at 7:20 PM, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

Let us not forget the Spencer for those that are OK with being timed with a sundial!:P

 

image.png.b880f93b066d11fa31c3a0ac3da785f4.png

 

Injun Ryder, I shoot a Uberti 73 and I'm still timed with a sundial.....but I'm having fun.

AG

Edited by Arizona Gunfighter
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Posted (edited)
On 7/31/2020 at 4:47 PM, Tyrel Cody said:

For CAS in order:

 

1a. 1873 Uberti

1b. 1873 Winchester(Miroku)

2a. 1866 Uberti

2b. 1866 Winchester(Miroku)

3 .  1894 Marlin

4.   1892 Rossi/Winchester/Chiappa/Other

5a. 1860 Henry Henry Repeating Arms

5b. 1860 Henry Uberti

7.   1883 Burgess (Uberti)

99. Henry Big Boy

 

For CAS AND Other

1.   1894 Marlin

2.   1892 Rossi/Winchester/Chiappa/Other

3a. 1873 Uberti

3b. 1873 Winchester(Miroku)

4a. 1866 Uberti

4b. 1866 Winchester(Miroku)

5.    Henry Big Boy

I think Kid Cali got his answer some time ago.

 

I would move the bolded down at least one notch. Maybe down to 3 or 4. Not because it is not a fine firearm, it is absolutely a fine firearm and out of the box better than an unslicked Uberti.

 

I would move it down at least one notch because there is not as much experience with it in this sport "institutionally." Not as many people have experience with it, not as many gunsmiths know how to make it run.

 

And as to a Rossi... Well, I think this list is slicked guns. Cuz the one un-slicked gun I checked out a few years back sucked but the ones I have seen in competition run well. And the one slicked example I handled really increased my respect for gunsmiths.

 

Oh, guess what I bought for myself... If you guessed Winchester Miroku 1873, you are correct.

Edited by John Kloehr
misspelled un-slicked

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11 hours ago, Arizona Gunfighter said:

 

Injun Ryder, I shoot a Uberti 73 and I'm still timed with a sundial.....but I'm having fun.

AG

 

Once when my wife was shooting, I told the TO to time her with a sundial and count the hits instead of the misses.  She didn't think it was as funny as I did. 

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On 7/31/2020 at 1:32 PM, Flash said:

If you would take a poll you would find that a majority of shooters would get an 1873. And most would not get a heavy / long barreled one.

This- period!!!!!

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The finest music comes from the heart of the player, not the banjo!  The '60 Henry produces the prettiest music these ole ears of mine ever heard and thas a fact!  Who wants a toy that ever other kid on the block has in his closet, with the Henry you can walk over to the gun rack and pick your gal without a second glance, she is the one that is different and stands out amongst the many ho-hums lined in a row?  She shoots as straight as any rifle on thet rack and stood the storms of many battels that her later daughter never had to witness. 

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For me, I got the guns I love because I wanted to have and shoot them.  Long after I got them, I joined SASS so I can shoot them more.  The biggest appeal to me is the period authenticity.  The Henry Big Boy has zero period authenticity.

 

Heck, I feel bad that the only shotgun I could afford (for now) is a Stoeger internal hammer SXS.  Someday I'll get an external hammer shotgun.

 

BTW, I shoot an 1873 Uberti rifle with 24" barrel and straight stock, because I love the lines and it reminds me of my Hawken and Kentucky rifles.

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22 hours ago, Slowhand Bob, 24229 said:

The finest music comes from the heart of the player, not the banjo!  The '60 Henry produces the prettiest music these ole ears of mine ever heard and thas a fact!  Who wants a toy that ever other kid on the block has in his closet, with the Henry you can walk over to the gun rack and pick your gal without a second glance, she is the one that is different and stands out amongst the many ho-hums lined in a row?  She shoots as straight as any rifle on thet rack and stood the storms of many battels that her later daughter never had to witness. 

 

Ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't let that cat outta the bag or purdy soon everydurn person is going to want to join the Henry club and be cool! :D

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I reckon it depends on what your goal is, in C.A.S.

 

Are you more into fun, or authenticity, or being different...or are you primarily wanting to "win", and get your C.A.S. times/score lower than your golf score?

 

What you want, out of this sport, will determine what you purchase. 

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WK, I think you are on to something.  After a thousand years of running from the alarm clock, to the grist mill, to the evening chores and then to simply start all over again tomorrow, well things just seem to get ingrained into a poor soul and no wonder many kinda get ingrained into carrying the race over into Saturday and Sunday.  Being a poor boy, born and raised in the South, I grew up with a love for bank fishing and if there is anything that will teach a soul patience that is a day chasing bream, slowest race on planet earth!  Like Jake speaks of above, I also developed a love for the long slender lines of the old Kentucky rifles but for me those lines actually show up more in the old civil war Henry, probably due to its lack of a fore stock and they also do not often show with the shortened 'hurry up' barls!

 

No worry Dantankerous, you could lay a shiny new Henry Rifle in the middle of Main Street and ninety-five  percent of our shooters would not even notice it, or worse yet, they would consider it as foolish for their needs!

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I hope my words were not the target of your post, I certainly would not want to insult any Phantoms.  The Phantom was actually one of my favorites when I was a bit younger, used to go to him first in the Sunday mourning cartoon pages.  As far as the competition thang goes,  I'll bet that most of the BP shooters do try to go fast as possible when the buzzer goes off.  I certainly do, but alas, i'm just natural slow!  

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24 minutes ago, Slowhand Bob, 24229 said:

I hope my words were not the target of your post, I certainly would not want to insult any Phantoms.  The Phantom was actually one of my favorites when I was a bit younger, used to go to him first in the Sunday mourning cartoon pages.  As far as the competition thang goes,  I'll bet that most of the BP shooters do try to go fast as possible when the buzzer goes off.  I certainly do, but alas, i'm just natural slow!  

I just think that 99.99999% of CAS think the 1860 is awesome... Even though they don't care for it as a CAS Main Match rifle.

 

Phantom

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On 7/31/2020 at 3:22 PM, Tyrel Cody said:

 

There's also an increased chance of out of battery discharge; lack of lever safety. I've had 2 with them and I think both were due to opening the lever a tad before I pulled the trigger.

In my short 7 year stint with sass, I have seen more out of battery with a 73 than a 66 by a rate of about 10 to 1. 

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1 minute ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

In my short 7 year stint with sass, I have seen more out of battery with a 73 than a 66 by a rate of about 10 to 1. 

 

In my relatively short 9 year participation in SASS I've experienced 2 out of battery with a 66 vs 0 with a 73. Both can absolutely do it, but in my opinion far more likely with a 66.

 

For what it's worth both of mine were due to my  timing and I believe I was opening the lever, not closing it. This doesn't happen with a lever safety in a 73'. 

 

The 73's I've seen(only in video) were due to a firing pin protruding and/or forcing the round to chamber with the lever. This can happen regardless of a lever safety.

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16 minutes ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

In my short 7 year stint with sass, I have seen more out of battery with a 73 than a 66 by a rate of about 10 to 1. 

 

But aren't there about 10 times as many '73's as '66's?  Maybe not ten times, but a lot.

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Blondie Fraser  :)

 

In the beginning when SASS and CAS were young and "Race Guns" were unheard of, more matches were won with '92s and Replica (Rossi) '92s than anything else.  With a good action job, a '92 can be VERY FAST indeed and dead reliable as well.  Your a long way away and sorta upside down, but should you acquire replica '92, then commune with Nate Kiowa Jones (stevesgunz.com).  Purchase his DVD on tuning the '92 and his Springs/Parts Kit and spend a weekend gettin to know your rifle.  Be sure and source a "Lever Wrap" as well.  It will run light and fast enough to really bang your fingers in the lever.  A '92 is a FINE rifle.  B)

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9 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

But aren't there about 10 times as many '73's as '66's?  Maybe not ten times, but a lot.

Exactly. Probably even more than 10 times. And there in lies the law of averages

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Colorado C, is you retired or not?  I have some specialized Pietta timing issues, just in case I should ever try popping caps again???

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Hi Bob :)

 

Yepper.  I am in fact well retired and loving it.  Sorry I can't help . . . .

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On 8/22/2020 at 10:33 AM, Slowhand Bob, 24229 said:

The finest music comes from the heart of the player, not the banjo!  The '60 Henry produces the prettiest music these ole ears of mine ever heard and thas a fact!  

 

Oh....  That's a tough one.   The music of the heart or the music of the banjo?   We'll come back to that one...

 

As far as rifle music goes, I have to vote for the 73 over the Henry.   That metallic ping like sound that it makes when you cycle the action just isn't there on the brass framed Henry.    

 

Getting back the to music of the banjo, well...
 

 

I can't argue with that...

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Posted (edited)

An old used JM Marlin Cowboy Ltd in 45colt would be my suggestion. It can easily handle hunting loads or cas loads. Other than a one piece firing pin mine is stock. Bbl length is a personal thing, I like a 24 in bbl but generally a shorter bbl is faster. Did have to repair the ’jam’ once but my jbweld and coping saw blade has held for over 20 years. Had a Rossi 92 and wore it out in a year, I have a 66 musket and two 73’s [more or less stock ubertis] that are only shot occasionally. If I want to be competitive I carry my Marlin, if I want to play I carry the 66 or a 73. Ubertis always require aftermarket work, lighter springs, harder screws etc but they are pretty.  The .38 caliber 66 loading gate is prone to breaking, larger calibers are ok. As said earlier, try before you buy.

B15E5139-9087-4BF1-B28D-CD8B776893CC.jpeg

Edited by Baltimore Ed

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I have happily employed Henry Big Boys for many, many years. I currently use the .45 Colt. I have also used the .357 Magnum and .44 Remington Magnum. Despite the usual suspects and their disparaging blather,  I am still shooting my Henry Big Boy.

 

I have fired thousands of warthog loads of Holy black without a hiccup for 20 years.  I have found mine to shoot flawlessly with awesome accuracy. Now, as an El Rey, I am still thrilled with their performance.

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3 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

I have happily employed Henry Big Boys for many, many years. I currently use the .45 Colt. I have also used the .357 Magnum and .44 Remington Magnum. Despite the usual suspects and their disparaging blather,  I am still shooting my Henry Big Boy.

 

I have fired thousands of warthog loads of Holy black without a hiccup for 20 years.  I have found mine to shoot flawlessly with awesome accuracy. Now, as an El Rey, I am still thrilled with their performance.

I think you'll find that the blather you are referencing usual centres around running the BB at speed... Allow cycle and they are fine.

 

Didn't know the BB has been around 20 years...I know I have only been around for just under 17 and I'm only 300 off your SASS number. 

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Henry Big Boy was introduced in 2003.  17 or 20 years it’s been around for lengthy time.

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10 minutes ago, Whiskey Hayes #41999 said:

Henry Big Boy was introduced in 2003.  17 or 20 years it’s been around for lengthy time.

But wasn't approved right away ;)

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