Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Last night in one or other of the News station, I heard that the Pentagon had decided to move a large number of troops and facilities to Belgium from Germany. I know there has been talk of doing do for decades but I guess I do not have any idea of the reason behind it. I know that Germany has not been friendly toward us of late, but then I doubt the were after WW II either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I doubt Belgium is any more friendly. Brussels is the seat of the European Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 From https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-troop-withdrawal-germany/2020/07/29/f5d23982-d19f-11ea-af07-1d058ca137ae_story.html The Trump administration will move about 12,000 troops in Germany to Italy, Belgium and back to the United States, the Pentagon said Wednesday, under a plan that defense leaders said was designed to strengthen deterrence against Russia but that President Trump has insisted would punish Berlin. Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper, unveiling the details of a long-awaited review of the U.S. military presence in Europe, said that about 5,600 of the troops would go to Italy and Belgium. About 6,400 will be based in the United States and conduct some rotational deployments back to Europe, he said. The reduction, larger than previously expected, will reduce the number of U.S. troops stationed in Germany from 36,000 to 24,000, Esper told reporters at the Pentagon. ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Our fearless leader is a Spoiled Brat. Whenever someone calls him out, he finds a way to "Get Even." Clean'd out his cabinet several times as well as advisers. If anyone tells him NO, They have learned to have a new Resume real handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Drifter Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Our fearless leader is a Spoiled Brat. Whenever someone calls him out, he finds a way to "Get Even." Clean'd out his cabinet several times as well as advisers. If anyone tells him NO, They have learned to have a new Resume real handy. at least he IS a fearless leader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 This is an economic move!! Germany hasn't paid its part of the NATO funding. They don't contribute to funding like they should, nor do they contribute proportionally to troop numbers. The previous person holding the office refused to even ask for Germany's fair contribution and failed to even speak up for NATO at all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 And you got this empirical .... where?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Putin is pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Trump is mad at Germany because they are building a pipeline to buy oil and natural gas from Russia. We are there spending billions to protect Germany from Russia. Germany is not paying their fair share of the NATO expenses and have snubbed Trump when he brings it up. I think pulling 12,000 troops out of Germany is mostly symbolic but it might be enough to get Germany's attention. We'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I thought the US troops from Germany were going to be moved to Poland. apparently not. Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Cat Brules said: I thought the US troops from Germany were going to be moved to Poland. apparently not. Cat Brules Prolly Portland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Our fearless leader is a Spoiled Brat. Whenever someone calls him out, he finds a way to "Get Even." Clean'd out his cabinet several times as well as advisers. If anyone tells him NO, They have learned to have a new Resume real handy. I can't think of anyone else running for that office who is as well qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 10 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: And you got this empirical .... where?? It's been published everywhere but the LAMESTREAM media!! It doesn't fit their, and apparently your, agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Bring them all HOME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South-Eye Ned Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 20 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said: Trump is mad at Germany because they are building a pipeline to buy oil and natural gas from Russia. We are there spending billions to protect Germany from Russia. Germany is not paying their fair share of the NATO expenses and have snubbed Trump when he brings it up. I think pulling 12,000 troops out of Germany is mostly symbolic but it might be enough to get Germany's attention. We'll see what happens. Solid info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 On 7/29/2020 at 5:14 PM, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Our fearless leader is a Spoiled Brat. Whenever someone calls him out, he finds a way to "Get Even." Clean'd out his cabinet several times as well as advisers. If anyone tells him NO, They have learned to have a new Resume real handy. On 7/29/2020 at 6:30 PM, Badlands Bob #61228 said: Trump is mad at Germany because they are building a pipeline to buy oil and natural gas from Russia. We are there spending billions to protect Germany from Russia. Germany is not paying their fair share of the NATO expenses and have snubbed Trump when he brings it up. I think pulling 12,000 troops out of Germany is mostly symbolic but it might be enough to get Germany's attention. We'll see what happens. Spoiled brat huh? What about Bracko, who hates the USA, and who no more represents the black community than The Man In The Moon? What about the two lying, thieving, promiscuous, traitorous, Clintons’. What about the inept, mentally impaired, lying, thieving, traitorous brat, Little Joey Biden and his equally disgusting offspring? Donald Trump a BRAT? Not on you life, kiddo. AHHH...Germany. Built into a World economic power and protected by The United States, Germany under Merkel is trying to press its way out of United States domination. She does this by interacting with and embracing her sworn enemies, who would eat her up and crap her (and Germany) out in an instant, given the opportunity. She knows she can always go running to the United States in the wind for protection, after creating alliances and economic alliances with our enemies. removing troops from Germany in the manner that Trump has done, is minor to us, but creates a significant impact on Germany. For every soldier (or other US service member) that is removed, there are probably 2 1/2 family members that come out with them. Couple that the rents and other housing and other Military and civilian purchases, the economic impact on Germany quite large. So is the economic impact related to the now-long-united Germany’s dealings with Russia. Is it really, Ms. Merkel, a good idea to play unwise, aggressive games with the United States, the people who killed many, many, and beat many others of your grandparents and theirs’ and yours’, cousins, and other family members almost to death in World War II? Then built your country, full of still-breathing Nazis!!! back into a viable economy?? No! It’s not a smart strategy.... And, that makes you, Ms. Merkel, stupid, stupid, stupid. I trust that more economic grief for Germany is forthcoming from “The Brat,” until you, Ms. Merkel, are gone, gone, gone! Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 It is high time that the countries which we have been protecting and bolstering economically start paying for their own defense. That includes South Korea. The economies of Germany and Korea are robust enough to support their own armies to defend them from their neighbors.... I am reminded of the Italian in Catch 22 who explained to Yossarian how the Italians would end up the winners when the war was over..... Duffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 I heard Trump was a cowboy. Yeah, he had bone spurs. Draft Dodger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Understand Spangenberg AFB will remain open, although the F-16 outfit will be moved out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tascosa, SASS# 24838 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Mister Badly said: I heard Trump was a cowboy. Yeah, he had bone spurs. Draft Dodger Pres. Trump is not a cowboy. but he has done more for the US than the last 4 presidents combined. We could say hes 'riding for the brand'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 ...moving the European Command from Germany is going to cost billions of dollars, rough guess on my part... ...seems like a complete waste of money to me... ...just because Trump is upset and wants to make some kind of statement is even more dumb to me... tic, tic, tic, tic... can just see Putin smiling from ear to ear... ...ain't saying Trump hasn't done great and what he said he would... ...just tired of his public contrived bully tactics... ...wish I had a good choice to vote for President... Trump and his lap dog vs. Biden (far left controlled puppet)... where's Nikki Haley when I need her??? ...Hi BMC!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tascosa, SASS# 24838 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Oklahomabound said: ...moving the European Command from Germany is going to cost billions of dollars, rough guess on my part... ...seems like a complete waste of money to me... ...just because Trump is upset and wants to make some kind of statement is even more dumb to me... tic, tic, tic, tic... can just see Putin smiling from ear to ear... ...wish I had a good choice to vote for President... Trump and his lap dog vs. Biden (far left controlled puppet)... where's Nikki Haley when I need her??? Well he could just lay back like the last 4 presidents have done and let Germany off the hook. President Trump DID something he thought was needed. Maybe it will turn out to be wrong or maybe it will be the right thing to do. My grandpa always told me to "Do something even if it turn out bad, at least you will learn what not to do next time". Im tired of politicians sitting on their butts and doing nothing except get rich. Finally we have a man with balls enough to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 In my opinion, it is in our own best interests to maintain bases around the globe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 I get the impression that a lot of folks have a conception of the President - whomever he may be - just sitting up on a hill pulling the nation's puppet strings based on nothing other than whim. Students of history will realize that this is seldom the case; the President will approve or decline proposed actions presented to him by others: advisors, cabinet members, Congress... and that these actions are usually well thought out with contingency plans prepared for a variety of possible outcomes. Portraying the President as one who makes these things happen depending on his mood when he woke up is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Trump won't even read what they put in front of him. BOUNTIES on our soldiers? He is the least intelligent politician I have ever heard speak. I believe Putin's got videos of him with hookers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: I get the impression that a lot of folks have a conception of the President - whomever he may be - just sitting up on a hill pulling the nation's puppet strings based on nothing other than whim. Students of history will realize that this is seldom the case; the President will approve or decline proposed actions presented to him by others: advisors, cabinet members, Congress... and that these actions are usually well thought out with contingency plans prepared for a variety of possible outcomes. Portraying the President as one who makes these things happen depending on his mood when he woke up is just wrong. Not so sure with this prez. I'm betting the large number of ex cabinet members don't share that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 We’re caught in the middle where foreign policy is concerned. It costs billions to maintain a presence in these countries that are supposed to be our allies. It may cost billions to move elsewhere. It may cost billions to just abandon these outposts. We’re treated like crap and made to feel unwelcome by these supposed friends while they take our money and demand that we protect them and yet they go out and make deals behind our backs with the very people they demand that we protect them from!! I don’t agree with everything that Trump has done, but in this case, maybe it’s time to spend a few less billion where we’re not so welcome and redirect that money into finding places that want us to be there. Past history tells us that we can’t isolate ourselves. The world around us will seek other means of support. These nations and their leaders are fickle!! If they don’t get what they want from us, they will find what they want from our enemies. Our enemies will gladly provide short term assistance in order to enthrall more of these nations and absorb their economies. The last administration allowed our allies to dictate policy to us and abrogated true leadership to others. It was almost as if we were paying these countries and leaders to mistreat us!! This may or may not be the best choice of actions, but it’s high time we did SOMETHING to encourage these allies to take on more of the expense and a more active role in providing troops and infrastructure for their own defense! Until they do, we’re going to have to spend those billions one way or another!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Mister Badly said: Trump won't even read what they put in front of him. BOUNTIES on our soldiers? He is the least intelligent politician I have ever heard speak. I believe Putin's got videos of him with hookers Well, I won't say that's the dumbest thing I've ever read on the Wire, but it's in the pack. I might suggest that you can bet your bottom dollar that if Biden wins, he will do exactly as he's told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Huckleberry Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 It's kinda like bluffing in a poker game. If someone sits down with a stack of cash and keeps bluffing, pretty soon no one at the table is too worried about meeting and calling. It's one thing to say an ally needs to step up or we'll pull our economic juice out (that's been batted around just about since NATO started). It's another to actually do it. It's kind of like telling another country there is a 'clear red line'. If you have a reputation that you never back your play and will always end up cutting deals that stink up your own house while you cave to the other side, then depend on a complicit media to gild the turd for the public, well -- don't expect the next country in line to take you seriously, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 15 hours ago, Mister Badly said: Trump won't even read what they put in front of him. BOUNTIES on our soldiers? He is the least intelligent politician I have ever heard speak. I believe Putin's got videos of him with hookers Without question, that IS the stupidest post I have ever seen on this forum in all the 16+ years I've been here OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 16 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: In my opinion, it is in our own best interests to maintain bases around the globe. Aye. And we will still have a significant force in Germany. And more in Poland. And Italy. The Fox article I read quotes a general saying this has been being discussed for a long while to better align troops after the breakup of the USSR. Trump just tied it to Germany not paying NATO enough while we shoulder the load. I've got friends that stayed in the service because Germany was a good station and they loved living there. They are not hated by the people -its those on the left in government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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