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Say the line?


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42 minutes ago, Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 said:

 Yes  Phantom shot with a Bank robber! when Phantom shot with the Cowboys we had a Bank robber that was shooting there! I believe he is still in Jail ?

Lol.  Ok.  I stand corrected.

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Seems like nowadays the shooters are more concerned about how fast they can shoot the stage and win their category, or the match, and be a "STAR" than what the match is all about.  Most of the newby fast shooters have no idea who Hoppy, Gene, Roy, Dale, Gabby or any other of our heroes were.  It's all about winning a trophy or a buckle and have bragging rites.  The old days of CAS are gone.  It's no longer a "Social Event Interrupted By Gunfire".  

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The Missouri State Blackpowder Championship will be held at the Outlaw Range just south of Marshfield, Missouri on Thursday, September 24, as a warmup to the Missouri State Championship to be shot on September 25 and 26.

 

The 6 BP stages will have starting lines.

 

 I know.

 

 I wrote ‘em.

 

:)

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

Seems like nowadays the shooters are more concerned about how fast they can shoot the stage and win their category, or the match, and be a "STAR" than what the match is all about.  Most of the newby fast shooters have no idea who Hoppy, Gene, Roy, Dale, Gabby or any other of our heroes were.  It's all about winning a trophy or a buckle and have bragging rites.  The old days of CAS are gone.  It's no longer a "Social Event Interrupted By Gunfire".  

My experience is that's fixable.  Most newbies, especially the Buckaroos and Young Guns, get interested in SASS and Western history in time.  Don't miss the opportunity to help them understand when the time comes.  I had several fun conversations with a newbie last weekend who left at the end of the match all fired up to go check out the B-westerns and real history.

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The NCOWS club I used to shoot with did the whole story and line thing. I enjoyed it. It brought the club members together when they used folks' aliases in the story. I also like the lines, especially when they are crazy or unusual. The SASS club I used to shoot with used the lines. Some said them, some didn't. It didn't affect my fun if they didn't. It's all part of the fun of the game. I don't want to see it disappear or at some point we're all going to be standing around dressed in black SWAT team wanna-be clothes shooting plastic wonder nines and AR-15s.

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On 7/31/2020 at 9:29 AM, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

However, the folks in cowboy action shooting are a couple of cuts above your everyday normal people.

How so?

 

On 7/31/2020 at 9:29 AM, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

Overall, they are extremely honest, loyal, caring and patriotic.

Overall, most people are.

 

On 7/31/2020 at 9:29 AM, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

I know you don't truly believe that an everyday, ordinary Joe will loan you his $1600 rifle and let you just walk away with it.

Many in SASS won't do this...some will...some won't. And we let folks try our Jetskis, Motorcycles that were our race bikes/boats that were worth a hell of a lot more than $1600. So again, good people ALL AROUND!

 

On 7/31/2020 at 9:29 AM, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

My buddy, Nate Kiowa Jones once told me that he had only ever one time had a cowboy shooter not pay him.  You won't see that out of normal, run-of-the-mill folks.

Sure you do! It's a matter of statistics.

 

On 7/31/2020 at 9:29 AM, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

And bank robbers?  Come on...

I'm sorry that you think I exaggerate. Please reference Von Dutch's post.

 

On 7/31/2020 at 9:29 AM, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

My dad always told me that folks generally see what they expect to see.

Are you directing this comment at me or you? I'll tell ya one thing, my glasses are clear in color.

 

Phantom (who's the same person my folks, wife and kids have made)

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On 7/31/2020 at 7:04 PM, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

Seems like nowadays the shooters are more concerned about how fast they can shoot the stage and win their category, or the match, and be a "STAR" than what the match is all about.  Most of the newby fast shooters have no idea who Hoppy, Gene, Roy, Dale, Gabby or any other of our heroes were.  It's all about winning a trophy or a buckle and have bragging rites.  The old days of CAS are gone.  It's no longer a "Social Event Interrupted By Gunfire".  

Perhaps you need to get out more...shoot with some other young folks and new shooters.

 

Just a suggestion...

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On 7/31/2020 at 9:04 PM, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

Seems like nowadays the shooters are more concerned about how fast they can shoot the stage and win their category, or the match, and be a "STAR" than what the match is all about.  Most of the newby fast shooters have no idea who Hoppy, Gene, Roy, Dale, Gabby or any other of our heroes were.  It's all about winning a trophy or a buckle and have bragging rites.  The old days of CAS are gone.  It's no longer a "Social Event Interrupted By Gunfire".  

 

No doubt SASS is a competitive game.   My understanding is that its always been a competitive game.

When the electronic timer,  with abilities to read one hundredths of a second, became an official part of our game,

then speed was apt to become part of the game.

Regardless..... the top shooters go to a match and spend less than 100 seconds on the firing line for 5-6 stages.

 

The slowest of your shooters might spend about 200 seconds doing the same scenarios.

 

Thats approximately 1 1/2 minutes vs 3 1/2 minutes.    BOTH shooters spent about 4 hours at the range.

 

I may ride a small horse, but the view from my saddle is that about 3.5 hours of socializing was 

going on somewhere during the match.

 

Have a great day!

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

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On 7/31/2020 at 9:04 PM, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

Seems like nowadays the shooters are more concerned about how fast they can shoot the stage and win their category, or the match, and be a "STAR" than what the match is all about.  Most of the newby fast shooters have no idea who Hoppy, Gene, Roy, Dale, Gabby or any other of our heroes were.  It's all about winning a trophy or a buckle and have bragging rites.  The old days of CAS are gone.  It's no longer a "Social Event Interrupted By Gunfire".  

It’s been my experience that people with this perspective aren’t particularly fast shooters (nothing wrong with that) who, rather than simply enjoying the aspects of the game that appeal to them, feel the need to vilify shooters who actually work to improve their skill set and value winning.

 

They cry and complain about how the game has changed. They whine about gamers ruining the game, all the while completely oblivious to the fact that their poor attitude and sour grapes are the antithesis if what CAS should be.

 

They have met the enemy, and the enemy is them.

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I like the stories (usually) and if I remember the line or it’s posted I’ll say it with conviction. If I don’t remember I’ll ask the TO. More often than not he doesn’t remember either in which case I’ll  typically say either ‘I work for Mel Brooks’ ‘Dyin ain’t much of a living boy’ or ‘Are you going to pull those pistols or whistle Dixie.’ 
 

I rarely use ‘shooter ready,’

 

The presence, or lack, of stories and lines has no impact on my desire to shoot any particular match.

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On 7/31/2020 at 2:36 PM, Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 said:

 Yes  Phantom shot with a Bank robber! when Phantom shot with the Cowboys we had a Bank robber that was shooting there! I believe he is still in Jail ?

I believe his alias was Bull and he was a real life bank robber. His day job was a detective for a police department but in his spare time he’d rob banks in San Diego and Orange County. If I remember correctly they named him the “grand pa bandit”.
Former police sergeant arrested in SoCal robberies
The Associated Press
Article Launched: 10/31/2008 01:52:15 AM PDT

RANCHO CUCAMONGA, Calif.—A former police sergeant was arrested in connection with a series of bank robberies throughout Southern California.

Frank Holder, whom investigators had dubbed "the Grandpa Bandit," was arrested Wednesday near the scene of a bank robbery in Rancho Cucamonga after being described by witnesses, FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller said.

Holder, 61,got his nickname because witnesses described him as a grandfatherly figure, Eimiller said.

The 30-year-veteran of the Pomona police department, who was also wanted in connection with thefts in Escondido and Glendora, was booked on suspicion of bank robbery, she said.

Pomona police Chief Joe Romero said news of the arrest came as a shock to people who had worked with Holder, who retired in 2004.

"It is totally out of his character," Romero said.
 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I like the stories (usually) and if I remember the line or it’s posted I’ll say it with conviction. If I don’t remember I’ll ask the TO. More often than not he doesn’t remember either in which case I’ll  typically say either ‘I work for Mel Brooks’ ‘Dyin ain’t much of a living boy’ or ‘Are you going to pull those pistols or whistle Dixie.’ 
 

I rarely use ‘shooter ready,’

 

The presence, or lack, of stories and lines has no impact on my desire to shoot any particular match.

 

My favorite line is from SHANE, when he tells Jack Wilson..... "You're a low down yankee liiiiiiiaaaaaarrrrr".

I'll often use this line preceded by a Duke imitation....."Well Pilgrim....you're a low down yankee liar".

 

..........Widder

 

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Let me start with, IMHO (that's me, mine), I always write lines, either from a movie or some theme regarding our folks or the time of the year or whatever. Simple, usually no more than a few words, but I do write em.  I USED to write stories, but got tired of the vote to read them or not being an overwhelming "don't read em". I spent more time coming up with stories than I did writing the actual stages so... no more stories. The annual is another story; I believe our annual stages should reflect who we are as a club. If we can't do a good job on a match we want folks from out of town to come to, we shouldn't do one. If you want to just go up to the line and start shooting, I feel bad for ya; kinda takes something away from what we do, again, IMHO.

I typically find, folks who don't want to say lines, don't do much on the dress either. I know there are folks out there who are beat down from doing most everything for the matches, I get it.

Me, I will always write and say the lines.

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44 minutes ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

 

Yes

That's fine...obviously it could be taken as applying to both of us. But then it contradicts your belief that the folks in CAS are a "Cut above your everyday normal" person. You've now relegated your statement to a matter of perception rather than having some empirical evidence.

 

Phantom

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3 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

That's fine...obviously it could be taken as applying to both of us. But then it contradicts your belief that the folks in CAS are a "Cut above your everyday normal" person. You've now relegated your statement to a matter of perception rather than having some empirical evidence.

 

Phantom

Of course it's perception!  However, sometimes perception is reality.  You live in yours.  I live in mine.  We are all the center of our own universe.  I just CHOOSE to look for more positive stuff, while you look for more negative stuff.  They say it takes all kinds.

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3 minutes ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

Of course it's perception!  However, sometimes perception is reality.  You live in yours.  I live in mine.  We are all the center of our own universe.  I just CHOOSE to look for more positive stuff, while you look for more negative stuff.  They say it takes all kinds.

Actually you're putting up a Strawman there Possum. I'm not looking at the negative. In fact, I'm perhaps reflecting a more positive position then you are. I see good all over and in equal amounts. You on the other hand see good in a disproportionate amount in a select group. I would argue that it is this position that is seeing things in the negative.

 

Don't understand you last comment...hope you weren't being disrespectful...that wouldn't be "Cowboy" of ya ;)

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14 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

what-if-i-told-you-i-forgot-the-line.jpg

 

Is it better to say that or have some other line like "Betcha don't remember me?" as a substitute? 

I would say, "Your scary ass is obviously too cool for school.  Shooter ready?"

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Actually, some folks come up with some pretty clever and funny stuff at the line, whether they forgot or not... say something better than "shooter ready".

Which interpreted means "I think lines and all this Cowboy 'stuff', for that matter, is hokey".

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Actually you're putting up a Strawman there Possum. I'm not looking at the negative. In fact, I'm perhaps reflecting a more positive position then you are. I see good all over and in equal amounts. You on the other hand see good in a disproportionate amount in a select group. I would argue that it is this position that is seeing things in the negative.

 

Don't understand you last comment...hope you weren't being disrespectful...that wouldn't be "Cowboy" of ya ;)

I see good in most everybody, but still contend that cowboy action shooters are the best of the best.  Maybe I'm not realistic about this, but I don't care.  It is my perception.  I strive to be better because I perceive I'm around better people.

 

Wasn't trying to disrespect you, I meant it takes the negatives and the positives and all the middle stuff too.

 

But none of this has to do with the OP, so let's move on.

 

My apologies to the original poster.

Possum

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I've been writing stages since the time there were always themes, stories and lines.  The line might even require a back and forth posse participation way back when!  I still "think" in theme when it comes to writing stages, so every match has one.  As all the different prior posts indicate, the stage writer has to appeal to two different camps.  The theme is there for those want to "get into it" for the day, it can be ignored by those that aren't interested. I don't do stories anymore, not even a one or two sentence set-up.  There are start lines related to the theme for those that want use them.  "Shooter ready!" works too, if you aren't into remembering lines.  No hard feelings.  I found that once I was writing stages, practically every dang thing I watched on TV or read was sparking ideas.  I keep a file of TV, movie, historical places and events, etc with potential themes, lines and target order ideas (listen to El Paso, it writes itself) to draw on when I needed new material.  Even non-cowboy things can work.  "Nice shooting, Tex!"  and "Aim for the flat top!" are from the original Ghostbusters movie which most people are familiar with. It makes a fun October/Halloween match, especially if you throw in a decorative prop or two related to the movie.  It's a challenging balancing act to get enough in the match for those that want the ambiance while still being unobtrusive enough to not disturb those that view it as a distraction.  This consideration has to go on top of all the meat and potatoes of stage writing like preventing unintended outcomes because you didn't say I can't, not setting up a "P" trap, safety concerns, etc.  I'm glad I was able to sort of grow into stage writing over the years.  I think it is much more difficult now and my hat is off to any newly-minted stage writer with the guts to take on the task.         

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This thread got me to thinking.  Looked back in time at my files, been writing all our club stages for 13 years.  Dang how stage writing has evolved.   I personally think it has been a good evolution.  Instead of spelling out each movement the shooter makes now the shooter has a lot of thinking to do on each stage.  Which gun to start with, where to stage them, what is the best movement for this stage.  A lot of times once the stage is thought through there might only be one way to shoot the stage.  Best way to shoot the stage discussion takes place on each stage.  This discussion time helps build comradery versus listening to a long stage story.   Stage stories use to be half a page long or longer in a monthly match now just a couple of sentences is enough to stir the shooters imagination.  I always have start lines posted at all the starting positions on each stage doesn't matter to me if they use my start line are their own.  We're all there to enjoy the day shooting with old or new friends fast or slow.  I agree SASS has an abundance of good every day people but this isn't unique to SASS.  All successful organizations have an abundance of good every day people.  Even during these turbulent times the USA is primarily populated by good every day people. 

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4 hours ago, Whiskey Hayes #41999 said:

Instead of spelling out each movement the shooter makes now the shooter has a lot of thinking to do on each stage.  Which gun to start with, where to stage them, what is the best movement for this stage.  A lot of times once the stage is thought through there might only be one way to shoot the stage.  Best way to shoot the stage discussion takes place on each stage.  This discussion time helps build comradery versus listening to a long stage story.

IOW, (the bold) how to "solve the problem." And agree with the italic part too. A short story does help to remember the line.

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On 7/28/2020 at 10:11 PM, Sixgun Seamus said:

We still say lines at the clubs I shoot at. I incorporate lines in all the stages at our matches. I've never written stories. I think lines add to the fun of the game. Many times the shooter will intentionally butcher the lines resulting in some laughs. I've butchered a few myself.

Yes.
We say the line, or, "Seamus is my hero!"    :D

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On 8/5/2020 at 4:55 PM, John Kloehr said:

IOW, (the bold) how to "solve the problem." And agree with the italic part too. A short story does help to remember the line.

Don’t know what IOW means. A little help please. 
Gateway Kid

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3 hours ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Don’t know what IOW means. A little help please. 
Gateway Kid

"...in other words".

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10 hours ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Don’t know what IOW means. A little help please. 
Gateway Kid

 

7 hours ago, Griff said:

"...in other words".

That's it.

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I always write in lines and like it when people use them. If they forget it or don't want to use it as some prefer I don't stress over it. IMO if you want people to use them make them simple and not have em' give a speech...........lol

 

One thing I'll never do is write in a line where the TO and shooter interact........what a confusing, awkward time wasting exercise of frustration that is.....did I type that out loud!? 

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I don't care. But, if the line is not pinned somewhere, I'm likely to forget it. I have trouble remembering the starting position. I usually remember the scenario. :blush:

 

I remember once, Hubby got one word wrong in a line at an annual and got a P. That stage was fubar in many ways. They put it down and didn't even tell Hubby. He saw it when he looked at his score.  BTW, each stage had one or two of the locals as Berm Marshals. The MD was very accommodating, changed several scores, and never had those guys as Berm Marshals at another annual. Don't be those guys! ;)

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