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bgavin

Choosing a Personal Defense Handgun

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1 hour ago, bgavin said:

pistol vs revolver, is the pistol is a faster shooter in a dire emergency.

I disagree, sort of. Wheelguns have no safety, don’t jam, and clears a dud round with a simple pull of the trigger. 

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1 hour ago, bgavin said:


Yep, fully agree with that.
My sole thought about a pistol vs revolver, is the pistol is a faster shooter in a dire emergency.

 

Wyatt Earp: “Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.”

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12 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Don’t you have to be a resident of the county?

I assumed that bgavin was a resident of Sac county when he mentioned it. But yes you must be a resident of the county you apply in.

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Posted (edited)

Ever notice how this overly broad question generates the same responses year after year? Eventually, it devolves into a wheel gun vs semi auto thread. Thought we beat this topic to death a few days ago. 
 

My choice between the two platforms is “yes”. :P
 

Edited by Abilene Slim SASS 81783
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6 hours ago, Trigger Mike said:

Can't go wrong with the 1911.  

That and my Colt Government .380.  It's a good option for when it's too hot to wear clothes that will cover a 1911.

Got one of each and a five shot .38 special as a back up.

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For what it is worth.....  

 

Buy what you can shoot, buy quality, buy what you can afford to shoot, what is comfortable to carry, something you are willing to give up to the police/courts in the event of the worst case scenario and remember the KISS principle.  There are benefits to both revolvers and autos.  Lastly always carry factory ammo and a spare reload in a personal defense weapon and most importantly, know the laws in your respective state.

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2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Don’t you have to be a resident of the county?

 

When he mentioned Sacramento county I assumed he was a resident. Yes you must reside in the county you apply in.

450px-California_CCW_Issuance_Map.png

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Posted (edited)

I picked up my SP101 in San Diego while we were living there.
The LGS said "don't even bother applying" for a CCW.

They are "denied out-of-hand." but do not show on the above chart.
Unless you are a politician...

LA, Oakland, Fresno, San Francisco, all the same.
Sacramento County, under Sheriff Scott Jones, was friendly to CCW issuance, at the time.

I was told you first pony up the $$ for classes, fees, etc, THEN you can still be denied out of hand.

Edited by bgavin
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Since this is not for concealed carry and is when you can't reach your shotgun, your handgun options are unlimited. Most encounters are only a few rounds, so your revolvers would suit you well. A 1911 to also do double duty with Wild Bunch? Any major brand would do, or if you have the money, you can splurge up to the price of a used car. If you buy a semi-auto, you're not restricted to small sizes and can get a duty-sized gun. Another question to answer would be is if another family member would possibly use the gun in a situation. If so, a 9 mm would probably be a better choice. Some of the current 9 mm offerings are really soft shooting, making the case for more pleasant range time. Most are capable of "minute of bad guy" accuracy.  If you're carrying around the house in shorts and t-shirt weather, a Ruger LCP II in .380 is a reliable option. 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

They are both pistols.

 

 

Sorry. Couldn’t resist.

;)


Not trolling you... my understanding is ATF defines a pistol as any handgun that does not contain its ammunition in a revolving cylinder.

;)

Edited by bgavin

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20 hours ago, Hillbilly Drifter said:

for personal defense you want reliability and capacity. hard to beat a Glock 19 or 17

Or a Glock 45.

 

;)

 

19 size slide on a 17 size frame.

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4 hours ago, bgavin said:

I picked up my SP101 in San Diego while we were living there.
The LGS said "don't even bother applying" for a CCW.

They are "denied out-of-hand." but do not show on the above chart.
Unless you are a politician...

LA, Oakland, Fresno, San Francisco, all the same.
Sacramento County, under Sheriff Scott Jones, was friendly to CCW issuance, at the time.

I was told you first pony up the $$ for classes, fees, etc, THEN you can still be denied out of hand.

The latest info, year old, that I've seen is around 125,000 permits in Ca.  I wouldn't go by what someone at a gun store told me without investigating further.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

The latest info, year old, that I've seen is around 125,000 permits in Ca.  I wouldn't go by what someone at a gun store told me without investigating further.

 

By contrast, Washington is still a shall-issue state (though the antis tried some additional restrictions last legislative section and failed) and has over 600,000 current. Exact current stats I haven't seen,  but that was it a couple of years back. And our population is less than 1/5th of Cal's.

 

I have a good friend in a rural SoCal county that says they have no problem getting a license.

Edited by Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619

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2 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

The latest info, year old, that I've seen is around 125,000 permits in Ca.  I wouldn't go by what someone at a gun store told me without investigating further.

LOL.  Georgia has over a million permits out, with a population of 10.6 million, so basically one out of ten. California has a population of 39.5 million, so about one out of 316 people has a permit.  On top of that, you don't need a permit to have a loaded gun in your car in Georgia, so there are quite a few people who do that without the permit.  I would hazard a guess that on the road in Georgia more than 2 of 10 cars have loaded guns in them. 

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2 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

LOL.  Georgia has over a million permits out, with a population of 10.6 million, so basically one out of ten. California has a population of 39.5 million, so about one out of 316 people has a permit.  On top of that, you don't need a permit to have a loaded gun in your car in Georgia, so there are quite a few people who do that without the permit.  I would hazard a guess that on the road in Georgia more than 2 of 10 cars have loaded guns in them. 

Believe me, I'm not bragging. Just pointing out that in the more rural areas you can get permits. Nothing like the free states but it's not all Los Angeles and San Francisco. 

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I just switched to a Glock 43X and I REALLY like it.

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1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

LOL.  Georgia has over a million permits out, with a population of 10.6 million, so basically one out of ten. California has a population of 39.5 million, so about one out of 316 people has a permit.  On top of that, you don't need a permit to have a loaded gun in your car in Georgia, so there are quite a few people who do that without the permit.  I would hazard a guess that on the road in Georgia more than 2 of 10 cars have loaded guns in them. 

Alabama has 20% of the adult population holding a concealed carry permit (the highest percentage in the nation) and there's a push in the Senate for permitless carry.

 

If there's 5 people in a gas station in Alabama, the percentages say at least one of them is armed.

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Several recent studies show that, for handgun rounds, it doesn't matter what caliber you use (.380acp or greater).  All handguns are really equally anemic.  Most work because people don't like getting shot.

Choose the gun, not the caliber.  Then quit worrying about it.

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12 minutes ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

Alabama has 20% of the adult population holding a concealed carry permit (the highest percentage in the nation) and there's a push in the Senate for permitless carry.

 

If there's 5 people in a gas station in Alabama, the percentages say at least one of them is armed.

I haven't noticed a lot of Antifa activity in either Alabama or Georgia.  hmmm...

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I haven't noticed a lot of Antifa activity in either Alabama or Georgia.  hmmm...

Alabama also has a law that says that you can't wear a mask or hood at a protest, march or similar public gathering.

 

The New Brown Shirts were introduced to that one a few years ago when some neo-Klukker booked a speaking hall at Auburn to hold an event.  When word got out, the anti-farts decided to come to the Loveliest Village on the Plains- where they were met barricades manned by City, County and State law enforcement who informed them of the law and arrested anyone that refused to remove their mask and hood.

 

There's a really cool (and hilarious) video on the internet of some anti-fart chick trying to snatch away from a Alabama State Trooper when he explained the law to her.  That worked out about like you'd expect.

 

Things didn't quite go as they planned.

Edited by Smuteye John SASS#24774
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

The latest info, year old, that I've seen is around 125,000 permits in Ca.  I wouldn't go by what someone at a gun store told me without investigating further.

 Really?  MA, a much smaller state that is just as restrictive in all things gun related, has about 415,000 concealed carry permits, and that number is climbing.

 

Edit: Just found the latest numbers;  MA now has a concealed carry  rate of 10% - about 700,000 permits.  Pretty good for a state that treats gun owners like vicious dogs.

 

LL

Edited by Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438
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1 minute ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

 Really?  MA, a much smaller state that is just as restrictive in all things gun related, has about 415,000 concealed carry permits, and that number is climbing.

 

LL

Again. I'm not saying that this is a big number considering the population. Obviously MA is not as restrictive as Ca. specifically on getting ccw permits. Other gun related laws yes. 

 

I'm simply stating that in less populated, rural areas of Ca. you can get a permit. Nothing more. Why read more into it?

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1 minute ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Again. I'm not saying that this is a big number considering the population. Obviously MA is not as restrictive as Ca. specifically on getting ccw permits. Other gun related laws yes. 

 

I'm simply stating that in less populated, rural areas of Ca. you can get a permit. Nothing more. Why read more into it?

 

Sorry if I stepped on your toes; I really wasn't reading anything into it other than my own surprise in the dissimilar rate of permitting.

 

MA also has its variations depending on what town you live in.  Here, permits are issued by local chiefs of police, who can flatly deny them or add any kind of restriction they like.  This process is being challenged, but it's a town-by-town thing.  I live in a rural farm town, and getting a permit was simple and friendly.  I'm about to move to a town on Cape Cod where tourism and retired folks drive the economy; I have heard that the chief is more restrictive.  We'll see.

 

LL

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I haven't live on the Cape since 1973... I fully expect it is hugely different today.
And FAR more restrictive.

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19 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I haven't noticed a lot of Antifa activity in either Alabama or Georgia.  hmmm...

 

And that's the way we like it down here.

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5 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

 

And that's the way we like it down here.

I know.  I'm from Fairhope Alabama.

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I know.  I'm from Fairhope Alabama.

Great town, Capt. Bill.  I'm sure y'all don't have much in the way of riots and destruction over in Baldwin County either.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Great town, Capt. Bill.  I'm sure y'all don't have much in the way of riots and destruction over in Baldwin County either.

There was some chatter on social media that they were going to hit the tiger Town shopping area over in Opelika the Saturday after all of this mess started.

 

The jeniuses (misspelled intentionally to increase the sarcastic impact) that were planning it forgot one tiny detail.

 

Tiger Town is just across the intersection from the county courthouse, jail and Sheriff's Department.

 

According to someone that I know who works in the area, there were about 20 marked LEO vehicles from 4 different departments (Opelika and Auburn City, County Sheriff and State Troopers) sitting in parking lots in the surrounding area when the announced time arrived.  The 20 or so folks in the parking lot outside of the Best Buy got counting noses and started calculating the number of seats there were in the back of those police cruisers before deciding to go get a burger someplace instead.:lol:

Edited by Smuteye John SASS#24774

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On 7/28/2020 at 5:03 PM, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

well I have been hunting the perfect carry gun , so far I AIN'T found it 

 

 I may be carrying any of 8 or 10 , different pistols , depending on where I am , and how I am dressed 

 

 a hand gun , is just to fight your way back to heavy firepower and good cover 

 

  CB 

Same here but I just found the one I’m sticking with :) 

Just got a STI or Staccato as there called now , so far I’m impressed and going back to a 1911/2011 style gun gives me a warm fuzzy feeling 

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3 hours ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Great town, Capt. Bill.  I'm sure y'all don't have much in the way of riots and destruction over in Baldwin County either.

Nope! Local PD isn’t going to put up with that crap.

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On 7/28/2020 at 11:56 PM, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

 

When he mentioned Sacramento county I assumed he was a resident. Yes you must reside in the county you apply in.

450px-California_CCW_Issuance_Map.png

I lived in Lassen Co back in the 80s/90s and had a permit . Ca made you list each gun your going to carry so I figured I might as well put anything I might carry on it . Mine said see other side :) 

Good to see Lassen still is on the conservative side . When I first moved to Ca from Mi they had better handgun laws than Mi , boy how things have changed 

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Looking at Seattle, Portland and the others... the local PD apparently does not have a say.
They are ordered to stand down by local politicians.

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On 7/28/2020 at 1:14 PM, bgavin said:

What are the thoughts on a personal defense hand gun?

I have Ruger DA revolvers, GP100 and SP101 in 357 mag.
These seem sort of "slow" compared to the various pistols, in a fast defensive scenario.
That guy in Austin who defended himself from the soy boy with the AK-47 comes to mind.

9mm, 10mm, 45 ACP or ?
I learned as a kid on my Dad's 1911, have zero experience with 9 or 10mm.

Could possibly do double duty as a wild bunch gun.

Thoughts?

This question and the caliber wars are the two most popular topics among gun folks, and there are no real answers, just pro's and con's, sorta like real life in general.

 

There are several decisions to make along the way to deciding what gun you might want to rely on.

 

Is it for home and property use, or concealed in public as well?

If the former, a large frame handgun makes more sense as it will be heavier, likely have more ammunition, and have a longer sight radius, making it easier to handle and shoot more accurately.

If the latter, than you have to decide if you will dress to accommodate the gun, or chose a gun to accommodate your way of dressing.

 

What I generally tell new shooters is:

1. It has to be as reliable as possible (given the usual caveats about how anything can fail),

2. You need to be able to control it (whether that be caliber, grip size, recoil, slide spring strength, trigger pull, etc.),

3. It has to be accurate enough for purpose ( it needn't shoot 1" at 25 yds, but should be able to put the full load into a pie plate at whatever distance you intend to use it at),

4. You need to practice the manual of arms for it, (load/unload, clearing jams etc.) including cleaning it.

5. Caliber is almost irrelevant, it's a hand gun, not a battle rifle.  Most factory made centerfire ammo is reliable enough for purposes.  Better a .32 auto you can hit with reliably than a .44 Dirty Harry special that you can't control!

 

A quality made modern firearm of either Polymer or steel will do nicely, and there are hundreds to choose from.

 

FWIW - I carried the 1911 in .45 for decades, switched to the High Power in 9mm, then the Kahr in 9mm, and finally the Glock G43 in 9mm. I used a Colt Detective special for one summer, but found I could get more ammunition in a smaller volume using a semi-auto.  I still have several large frame 9mm pistols, and Colt SAA's in .45 Colt, but they're house guns or play guns.  For CC I've decided that the G43 and two spare mags are fine.  I'm rural though, so I don't have the increased probability of encountering feral humans in large numbers like my Seattle or Portland brethren do.  If I was in a major city or within an hour of one I'd probably go to the Glock 19.

 

If my back would allow it I'd still carry the 1911, simply because it's the one I know best, and trust the most.  Frankly, I'm still reconsidering the Colt LW Commander in 9mm.

 

Good luck in your pursuit,

Shadow Catcher

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/28/2020 at 1:14 PM, bgavin said:

 

 

Double Tap!

 

 

 

Edited by ShadowCatcher
Double Tap

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Someone else may have mentioned this already, but I didn't see it.  A big factor in selecting a SD handgun is grip fit and sight acquisition.  When you're punching it out does the front sight naturally come up into your plane of vision, or are you searching for it?

 

Last night the family and I walked down to the lake to see if we could see the comet (no luck, cloudy).   While they were playing around on the beach it occurred to me that I hadn't seen my night sights in a while.  I use XS big dot tritium on my Colt Commander.  Being careful to keep my finger off the trigger and the gun pointed into the woods. I did a punch out, slowly.  Sure enough, in the pitch black, there is that big glowing front sight coming up followed shortly by the rear sight.

 

 

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