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Thoughts on ccw/ everyday carry???


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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

And I'm going to jump in to say that REVOLVERS are in many times the best type of gun to carry.

 

Why??

 

Go to a Wild Bunch match as watch folks deal with their 1911 Jams/Miss Feeds/etc and you know why.

 

If you are going to defend yourself or others, ya gotta practice a LOT with that Semi-Auto. To do otherwise...yer just kidding yerself on the belief that you are able to handle a bad situation.

 

Phantom

 

Most of those WB, FTF's come from reloaded lead bullet ammo.

Try the same guns with factory jacketed.

The 1911 is a great SD weapon. Saved my life twice.

OLG 

 

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On 7/25/2020 at 5:51 PM, Kid Rodelo said:

Anybody use a single action for concealed carry or everyday carry? If so what has worked? 

When the only gun I owned was a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt, that's what I carried.

Once I could add a Colt .45 1911 that's what I carried.

Carried a basically stock Colt 1911 (trigger job and better sights) for over 35 years, shooting

ball and Hydra Shoks without fail, ever, in all those years.

Switched to the Hi-Power and then the Kahr K9 for a while, now carry tactical Tupperware (G43)

with a few spare mags.

If I was to carry a SAA again it would be because I was going back country on a horse or Quad vehicle, and

I'd have a serious rifle in a scabbard.  I love my SAA'a, but they were surpassed over the last 100+ years for a

number of good reasons, and I try not to get romantic about the possibility of a gun fight.

 

YMMV

Shadow Catcher

 

 

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Like many, I've carried a variety over the years.   SA,  SA/DA,  semi-autos, etc.....

 

The past few years, I've stuck a full size SIG P320 (.357 SIG) in my britches with no issues OR the

P229 Legend (.357 SIG).   Occasionally, I'll carry the EAA Witness Compact in 10mm,  but not often.

 

BUT also in my truck was another formidable SD firearm.   Should a honest feller ever make a wrong turn and

finds hisowndangself at the Gates of Hell,  he should be able to back out of there with nothing more than wet

pants..... :o

 

..........Widder

 

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Howdy,

Consider revolver reliability with more rounds.

A small revolver with moon clips can do fairly quick reloads.

Check the ruger lcr in 9mm or even .22?

Spare loaded moon clips can drop into a pill bottle.

And emptys dont get sprayed all over the place.

A seldom considered alternative.

Best

CR

 

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A remington pocket with 32 caliber cartridge conversion in it is small and concealable.  Maybe try that if you want to.   I might try that for fun one day .  I often have 2.  It could be my second one.  

 

As finicky as cap and ball can be i doubt I'd try it with the cap and ball cylinder.  

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8 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

The biggest problem people have with Wild Bunch is getting reloaded lead only bullets to feed reliably.  I suspect a lot of people use range pickup brass that was run through a Glock.  Then they don't get it resized properly and the base of the case is swollen.  Then OAL and the lead bullets can cause feeding problems.  If you run good quality jacketed factory loaded rounds, the 1911 is a very capable gun.  JMB did not design the 1911 to use lead bullets.

My reference to the WB matches had to do with how folks handle clearing jams under the slight stress of a match and had nothing to do with the frequency that they had to do it.

 

Now put that person in an environment where a life is on the line.

 

Address this point rather than the lead bullet Strawman argument.

 

Phantom

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8 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

Most of those WB, FTF's come from reloaded lead bullet ammo.

Try the same guns with factory jacketed.

The 1911 is a great SD weapon. Saved my life twice.

OLG 

 

Did you encounter a jam?

 

If not, what if you had?

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a jam in a semiauto is often easier to fix than in a revolver.  I had a S and W governor once and didn't know it didn't like Rio brand 410 ammo and it locked up tight and took a  while to clear.  Ammo or other factors can cause a  revolver cylinder to freeze up and you are stuck.  

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10 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

And I'm going to jump in to say that REVOLVERS are in many times the best type of gun to carry.

 

Why??

 

Go to a Wild Bunch match as watch folks deal with their 1911 Jams/Miss Feeds/etc and you know why.

 

If you are going to defend yourself or others, ya gotta practice a LOT with that Semi-Auto. To do otherwise...yer just kidding yerself on the belief that you are able to handle a bad situation.

 

Phantom

I would agree that for 80-90% of people the DA revolver is the best choice. Not necessarily for reliability. A quality semi will be extremely reliable also, but the vast majority of ccw holders do not practice defensive shooting enough to be fully competent with a semi. It takes as you say, a Lot of practice in order to be sufficiently competent to carry a semi in harms way, because of the chance, however small, of a malfunction (either gun or operator caused) that can put you at risk of dying real quickly. 

Advantages of a semi in my opinion are lighter trigger pull which increases accuracy, more rounds, faster reload, balance and ergonomics.


But there is always that specter of a malfunction looming in the shadows.

Significant professional training, intimate familiarity with the weapon,  and constant practice in high stress defensive shooting situations are the most important elements to consider if you are going to carry a semi auto. If you cannot devote the time necessary to achieve a high level of competence you should choose a revolver.  This is not to say you should train less with your revolver, but you will not have the additional mental burden of memorizing immediate action procedures.


Life is full of choices. This is one of the most important ones.

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8 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Not quite.

 

A Semi-Auto has many ways to fail. I you're depending on that gun, you've better be real good and quick at resolving any problems. That includes having a backup mag ready to go.

 

A revolver...simple and dependable.

 

Phantom

 

A revolver is more susceptible to debris causing issues such as retrieving it from an accidental drop into mud.

 

By grabbing the revolver's cylinder (and hanging on for dear life) you can prevent the revolver from firing.  By grabbing a Semi's slide you can cause a jam but you can't prevent (one in the chamber) from firing once.

 

It's a Marry Ann or Ginger issue.  

 

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24 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Did you encounter a jam?

 

If not, what if you had?

 

No.

My training included clearance drills, just in case......

I practice these drills constantly. 

The last FTF that I had with my duty 1911 was a dud rnd that wouldn't fire.

This was many yrs ago with Winchester white bx ball ammo while re-qualifying for my CC permit.

OLG 

 

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7 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

A revolver is more susceptible to debris causing issues such as retrieving it from an accidental drop into mud.

 

By grabbing the revolver's cylinder (and hanging on for dear life) you can prevent the revolver from firing.  By grabbing a Semi's slide you can cause a jam but you can't prevent (one in the chamber) from firing once.

 

It's a Marry Ann or Ginger issue.  

 

I don't see it as a "Mary Ann or Ginger" issue...doesn't mean it isn't, I just don't see it that way. 

 

Utah Bob was much better at defining the issue than I. The fact that so many folks gravitate towards the Semi-Auto because it offers certain benefits while ignoring the inherent weaknesses that can be perhaps the most critical attribute is kinda like burying one's head in the sand.

 

Phantom

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Just now, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

No.

My training included clearance drills, just in case......

I practice these drills constantly. 

The last FTF that I had with my duty 1911 was a dud rnd that wouldn't fire.

This was many yrs ago with Winchester white bx ball ammo while re-qualifying for my CC permit.

OLG 

 

And that's my point OLG. You had significant and constant training to deal with the situation AND you did have a FTF that could have been a Jam had the round simply been a light load (squib). I submit that MOST folks that carry a Semi-Auto do not, nor will they, have that type of training/commitment.

 

Phantom

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1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I don't see it as a "Mary Ann or Ginger" issue...doesn't mean it isn't, I just don't see it that way. 

 

Utah Bob was much better at defining the issue than I. The fact that so many folks gravitate towards the Semi-Auto because it offers certain benefits while ignoring the inherent weaknesses that can be perhaps the most critical attribute is kinda like burying one's head in the sand.

 

Phantom

 

Even larger issue is lack of maintenance to the weapon. ;)

I have found military grade semi-auto handguns with just the minimum of care to be far more durable than most revolvers.

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2 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

And that's my point OLG. You had significant and constant training to deal with the situation AND you did have a FTF that could have been a Jam had the round simply been a light load (squib). I submit that MOST folks that carry a Semi-Auto do not, nor will they, have that type of training/commitment.

 

Phantom

 

Same can be said for wheel gun carriers.

Anydangthing mechanical can fail.

OLG 

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18 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

Even larger issue is lack of maintenance to the weapon. ;)

I have found military grade semi-auto handguns with just the minimum of care to be far more durable than most revolvers.

Going to have to disagree on this point. Don't know how to prove either position...

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A single action revolver is not the best option for concealed carry, but a double action revolver is a good choice for those who are novices or do not practice. Today's semi-autos are for the most part pretty reliable, though it is a good idea to run a few hundred rounds through any one you want to carry for SD. Carrying anything you are unfamiliar with sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I like a S&W Shield (9 or 45) when wearing pants and a belt or a Ruger LCP II when wearing shorts, but choose what you want, it's your life.

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10 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

 

13 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

It's not the failure, it's the resolution of that failure.

It has been my experience that mechanical failures in quality revolvers are rare. When they happen however it is generally due to breakage or failure of an internal part, rendering the gun useless at that point.

Most semi malfunctions are either operator or ammo caused but can be corrected immediately. But the odds are greatly in the revolver's favor as far as malfunctions go.

Simply said: a revolver probably won't malfunction, even with an untrained shooter, A

A semi might malfunction, even with a trained shooter. With an untrained shooter it probably will.

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38 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

Same can be said for wheel gun carriers.

Anydangthing mechanical can fail.

OLG 

I once had a detective bring me his S&W revolver because he couldn’t get the cylinder open let alone get it to turn . Someone he was arresting pushed him against a wall bent the yolk and completely locked the gun up . It used to be a common thing when police carried revolvers . Have also seen them varnished up with oil and full of lint where they don’t work , also where people couldn’t eject the live rounds out of the cylinder because of corrosion . Revolvers are more delicate than people realize. You can about beat someone to death with a 1911 or modern Tupperware and they’ll still work . But like everyone says it comes down to training and maintenance . I like the 2011 style guns , gives me modern day capacity that 1911 trigger and applying the thumb safety before I reholster gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. I’ve carried a glock/S&W M&P allot but I’m always paranoid when reholsering , guess that’s just my personal issue 

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Two self defense encounters so far in my life.  In both I was carrying a semi-auto,  Colt 1911 the first time, Mossberg 930 the second time.  Back then, with only one assailant, I would have felt just fine with a wheel gun. 

 

Sharyn carries one, for the exact reasons Phantom and Bob mentioned.  I have one, but as a back up, it's only primary when I'm fishing. 

 

Today, with 'protestors' who are 'mostly peaceful' I would not like to depend upon a wheel gun and the potential need to reload it under fire. 

 

That wheel gun is fine and dandy, until it's time to reload.  Once that happens it becomes exponentially harder to use than a semi.  Think about the fine motor skills and the sequence of actions required to reload a wheel gun, speed loaders or not, compared to dropping a mag and sticking another one in. 

 

 

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I carried a revolver as CCW for years. Then I did some drills with my Glocks and my revolvers. I mostly concentrated on reload drills. I shot my revolvers and my Glocks equally well. My goal was to check my speeds during reloads. To do this I went to an area that I used to shoot in the countryside in Oregon. 
I practiced shooting and reloading normally with my Glock 45 and my favorite CCW gun, my S&W 442 using HKS speed loaders. I do very well with these. 
I determined that just regarding reloading I was equally fast with the 442 and the Glock, magazine capacity vs cylinder capacity is / was not a factor in this test. 
I then jogged around a bit then ran up and down a hill. I got my pulse rate up to over 150 beats per minute and then did my shooting / reloading test again. Also, I started this test with an empty stomach. I was hungry. 
When I fired the Glock and reloaded I did okay. My shots were definitely not as accurate but all shots hit the torso of a silhouette target 10 yards out. 
Things didn’t fare as well with the 5 shot J frame. 
I missed the torso of the target with 2 of 5 shots. When reloading my hands were shaking. I got one reload done but it took a couple of tries to get the gun loaded. I fired. All 5 hit the target, but on the reload I dropped the speedloader. 
I did this test again a couple of weeks later. The results were similar. 
 

I love my revolvers (double action) and would carry my revolvers in areas where I wouldn’t be too concerned about reloads, like; on a country trail in the woods. Even then I would carry my 8 shot 327. Oh, by the way, loading and 8 round gun with a  speed loader under physical stress is even harder than a 5 or 6 shot revolver. 
 

But in a city, I will pack my Glocks. I trust them over any other autoloader I have ever shot or owned, including 1911s. A fast reload and reliability trumps the “cool factor” every time. 

 

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I trusted my life to a Glock for 15 years.  It never let me down.  We qualified with them every 3 months and it was completely disassembled and inspected by the department armorer annually.  The night sites only lasted 10 years so they decided they would trade out the Glocks every 10 years too.  I can't ever remember having a FTF or FTE with the Glock 17.  The department gave it to me when I retired.  

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1 hour ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I trusted my life to a Glock for 15 years.  It never let me down.  We qualified with them every 3 months and it was completely disassembled and inspected by the department armorer annually.  The night sites only lasted 10 years so they decided they would trade out the Glocks every 10 years too.  I can't ever remember having a FTF or FTE with the Glock 17.  The department gave it to me when I retired.  

Would you consider you and your environment similar to a typical Concealed Carry License holder?

 

Phantom

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Would you consider you and your environment similar to a typical Concealed Carry License holder?

 

Phantom

No, the qualifications for a Weapons Carry License in Georgia is breathing, over 21 and no disqualifying convictions.  I think the cost is about $80 for a 5 year permit.  You can get a WCL even if you've never seen a gun.   But you have to take an 8 hour course to get a hunting license.  Go figure.

 

But my original point was, that with regular training, maintenance and quality ammunition, a semi-automatic is very reliable.   Most law enforcement agencies left revolvers behind in the early 1990's.

 

 

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