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Shane Not Sean

Overall Length for .357 125gr RNFP?

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My manuals say 1.59".  Has anyone found a more optimum length for CAS (I'm loading for new vaqueros & uberti 1873). 

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Posted (edited)

The revolvers don't care unless you get them too long.

Different rifles like different length cartridges depending on bullet design.

Don't load too many until you check the functioning in YOUR rifle.

If it is a new rifle make sure all burrs are removed from where the cartridge exits the magazine.

 

Additional polishing may have to be done to improve smooth operation

 

 

 

Edited by Ace_of_Hearts

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1.45"

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The length will be determined by the casing being crimped into the crimp groove for a particular bullet.   That's how they are designed.  If you have problems like that, try another bullet that gives you a different length.   For my '73, it will work with either 38 specials or 357 magnum cases with the same 125 grain bullet.  Both cases are crimped into the bullets crimp groove.

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I used 125gr TC coated bullets from either Brazos Precision or Missouri Bullet and both I crimp just a hair under the groove and it comes in at 1.45" 

 

My Marlin 1894cst and my Uberti 73 function flawlessly with them. 

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I haven't found the 73 to be very OAL sensitive.  I crimp the 125 gr. truncated cone bullet right in the crimp groove.  The 73 traps the cartridge in the carrier and brings it up horizontal to line up with the chamber.  The Marlin is a different story.  

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Posted (edited)

1.475 to 1.525. Crimp the bullet into the lead and ignore the crimp groove,  This is with lead bullets, with jacketed bullets crimp into the crimp groove.

Edited by Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L
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I have three Uberti '73s carbines and rifles, and found 1.51" works well for me for all three on a 105 g. truncated cone bullet.  I crimp a little below the crimp groove.  Never had an issue doing that.  I did have some feed issues when I created a shorter round that was crimped in the groove.  Your results may differ.

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Mine are 1.45 and work well in both my new Vaquero and my Uberti 1873.

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Posted (edited)

I load mine to 1.495 , 105 truncated bullets. I use Badman bullets excellent quality AND there NON-crimp area is larger than the other brand 105's.

Edited by Hells Comin

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If you are loading 357 and not 38 I use Summer's enterprises 130 gr rnfp crimped in the groove at 1.58

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Howdy all,

 

My 125 tc are 1.52”, per advice from 

the gunsmith that’s did the action job on my rifle.

 

As explained to me, the closer you get to the  SAMMI
oal of the 44-40 cartridge the better the rifle works!

 

ymmv

 

AD

 

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The 1860, the 66 and the 73 have a built in ammo OAL gage. Open the action, turn the gun over and lay a round in the window where the carrier rides. If it doesn't fit, it's too long. It should be about 1/16 but not more than 1/8th inch short of not fitting tight. This length works best because the 73, 66, and 60 does not have a mag cartridge stop. The front edge of the loading gate, there just behind the carrier, is the only stop. While the carrier is in the up position it's the stop.  The carrier has to bring a round up to chamber while preventing the next round in the mag from coming on to the carrier. If the ammo is too short the carrier has to push the next round back into the tube as it comes up. Make your ammo long enough so that it's a shearing action as the carrier comes up.

Also because we don't need extremely accurate ammo just ammo that cycles well through the gun it is perfectly legal and practical to load 38 spec brass with a bullet set out in the case to a longer than normal OAL. We use lead bullets so just crimp into the side of the lead to get the OAL you need.

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Posted (edited)

I shoot 125 grain .357 RNFP from Choice Ammunition in both my Uberti '73 and my Vaqueros, OAL is 1.485" and no problems with running them.

Edited by Arizona Gunfighter
added RNFP

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Posted (edited)

Thanks all!  My setup landed me around 1.49 OAL (in crimp groove, CheyCast coated), which seems well within the norm described by everyone.  Much appreciated.

Edited by Shane Not Sean

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9 hours ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said:

This length works best because the 73, 66, and 60 does not have a mag cartridge stop.
The front edge of the loading gate, there just behind the carrier, is the only stop.

 


Is this the problem that The Smith Shop claims to fix with their pivot-stop carrier?

http://thesmithshop.com/cbs45.html

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Posted (edited)

If I were to answer the original question, "My manuals say 1.59".  Has anyone found a more optimum length for CAS (I'm loading for new vaqueros & uberti 1873)."

 

My answer would be, no, 1.59" is about as optimum as you can get, in theory. As stated above by a d texaz; "As explained to me, the closer you get to the  SAMMI OAL of the 44-40 cartridge the better the rifle works!"

 

And for 44-40, the SAAMI length is from 1.540" to 1.590". And for 44-40, with it's limited bullet option, crimping in the groove will usually yield a OAL within SAAMI specs.

 

The carrier on a '73 is 1.60" long, and any ammunition longer than that will not run.

 

9P0KGGCl.jpg

 

This is the carrier of my '66, the '73 is the same. The round cutout at the back of the carrier is what pushes the next cartridge back into the magazine. As the cartridge OAL gets shorter than 1.6" the more the remaining 9 cartridges in the magazine tube have to be pushed back. At around 1.4" OAL the works stop working, the carrier can't push the remaining cartridges back. There is not enough ramp available to push. With 38 Spl and 357 rifles you have the added issue with the rather large diameter magazine tube and cartridges get a bit cocked and crooked. 

 

8tP5xmi.jpg

 

My cartridges are loaded to 1.5" OAL, and as you can see the push back is minimal. If you load to 1.6" the clearance is not enough for the odd cocked round, and the carrier will probably jam. I think it's best if the cartridge has a bit of wiggle room, and can flop around a bit. I shoot a 1966 Cimarron Trapper Carbine, and in the short 16" magazine, the maximum I can load cartridges to is 1.5" and still get 10 in the magazine. That gives me about 0.100" of pushback and the rifle will probably run faster than I'm capable of. I see no advantage to loading cartridges as short as possible, and pushing 9 cartridges back 0.200" for the first lever, pushing 8 back on the second and so on. You end up pushing a total of 45 cartridges 9 inches in total, if my math is correct. Shorten them by 0.100" and you push them half as far, only 4.5".

 

Very important to feeding is making sure your crimp passes the fingernail test, IOW the edge of the shell cannot stick past the edge of the bullet, to ensure optimum feeding. As you can see my bullets do not have a crimp groove, I use a LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die to force the brass into the bullet, without any bulging.

 

In a revolver, OAL will not be a factor, if it will work in your '73, it will work in your revolver, as stated already. 

 

 

Edited by "Big Boston"

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Posted (edited)

From Palo Verde Gun Works, his tips: from his web site:

 

If your rifle is a .357, it may like ammo loaded between 1.510 and 1.550” over-all length. The ’73 will likely lever smoother and your Marlin or Rossi will likely feed better. Personally, I like around 1.530 in a .357 case with a broad-pointed RNFP bullet. The narrow pointed, truncated 105g bullet in a .38 case can be problematic in some rifles if loaded to .38 spl OAL. Some Marlins prefer around 1.510”OAL, others like up to 1.570”. Most Rossi’s like around the same length. Marlins can be very sensitive about the over-all length and, reportedly, sometimes the shape of the bullet.

Palo Verde

 

TB
 

 

Edited by Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118

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This thread should be pinned.  New shooters frequently ask what OAL and bullet profile will work in their rifle.  This is one of the first issues they must resolve in developing their CAS loads.

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I run my 1873 rifle with 130gn rnfp in 357 cases set at oal of 1.58.  3.5 gr of trail boss. Feeds great

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On 7/30/2020 at 10:42 PM, "Big Boston" said:

 

bF2qiKql.jpg

 

Better is, the Ammunition is in the right way in the carrier.....:lol::P

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My bad, worried about lighting and balancing the shells on something, and I put them in backwards. Refreshing to see that my posts are read. 

 

Here is the way the cartridges actually sit in the gun when the lever is at the bottom of the stroke. It sorta illustrates why a large flat meplat is something you want. 

 

8tP5xmi.jpg

 

BB

 

 

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