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H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

.454 Casull for SASS

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Imagine if you will, a fellow comes to the line with a reproduction 92, and a pair of largish revolvers, all chambered for .454 Casull and loaded up with black powder.

 

Too much insanity?

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Aren’t the Freedom Arms revolvers five shot?   I don’t think that they index between the chambers.  
 

But, with Swiss 3f it would make a heck of a boom!

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27 minutes ago, Desert Pete SASS #42168 said:

Aren’t the Freedom Arms revolvers five shot?   I don’t think that they index between the chambers.  
 

But, with Swiss 3f it would make a heck of a boom!

 

I don't know, actually.   But if that is the case the shooter would have to load the 5th round on the clock.

Either that or get a pair of converted Walkers that can handle the .45 Black Powder Magnum, [Which is just .460 Smith and Wesson loaded with 60 grains of black] and use the .454's as "sub loads."   But that's probably overthinking the concept too much.   I mean, .454 Casull as a reduced power loading?   Something must be wrong with my head.

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8 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

I don't know, actually.   But if that is the case the shooter would have to load the 5th round on the clock.

Either that or get a pair of converted Walkers that can handle the .45 Black Powder Magnum, [Which is just .460 Smith and Wesson loaded with 60 grains of black] and use the .454's as "sub loads."   But that's probably overthinking the concept too much.   I mean, .454 Casull as a reduced power loading?   Something must be wrong with my head.

The .454 Casull is a very versatile cartridge and can certainly be ""down loaded" to some extent for less punishment, and still maintain accuracy.  Bullseye is an excellent powder for this task whether you use your favorite 240-300 grain cast bullet to a Nosler 185 gr JHP (not for CAS).  The lighter load can be good for practice and have close to same POI at 30-40 years as one might have with their full throttle loads, and at lots less recoil.  But, yes in the superb Freedom Arms Model 83, one would be facing the load-on-the-clock handicap in CAS match as they are 5-shot cylinders even if extra cylinder of .45 Colt or .45 ACP....and, even with the down-load mentioned it might not be pleasant thru a entire match.  ( I have seen some fellows shooting heavy .45 loads that appeared awful unpleasant to me to run thru a complete match. )

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The .454 Casull is simply a lengthened .45 LC with heavier walled brass intended for use in the stronger Freedom Arms (IIRC) M83 and in the Rossi 92's.  The problem with reduced loads for SASS maximums is that the brass is designed for much higher pressures (over 40Ksi), and won't expand enough to prevent blowback.  Aside from the 5-round cylinder in the Freedom Arms pistols, and assuming a Rossi can feed the shorter rounds, there is no reason you couldn't shoot .45 LC or even .45 Cowboy ammo.  Other than that, it wouldn't be much different from shooting .44 Specials in a .44 Magnum gun.

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A lost-brass match might cause some concern....

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How cool!!!!!!

 

Let's think of more ways to beat the crap out of our targets!!!!

 

AAAAWWWWEEEESOME!!!!

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There's 6 shot FA revolvers.

None are in .454 C. ;)

All FA made .454 Casull revolvers are 5 shot only.

OLG 

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11 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

How cool!!!!!!

 

Let's think of more ways to beat the crap out of our targets!!!!

 

AAAAWWWWEEEESOME!!!!

 

I specifically said using black powder for that very reason.   It would not hit as hard as a smokeless load.    I would think an unconverted Walker with a full load of 60 grains of black would hit harder that my theoretical, and not entirely serious, scenario.

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Posted (edited)

Notwithstanding Cap & Ball, Why not just use actual "Cowboy" cartridges for "Cowboy" Action Shooting"? 

Edited by Savvy Jack
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Savvy Jack said:

Notwithstanding Cap & Ball, Why not just use actual "Cowboy" cartridges for "Cowboy" Action Shooting"? 

 

 

Few of today's gun makers don't make guns in the old calibers.

Should we only use authentic, and period gun carts too? :lol:

OLG 

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz

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26 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

That takes away .38 Special and many more calibers.

Few of today's gun makers don't make guns in the old calibers either.

Should we only use authentic, and period gun carts too? :lol:

OLG 

1899

 

.38 Spl

 

 

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Just now, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

1899

 

.38 Spl

 

 

Just saw that. TNX!

I still use my .44 Russian extra long....:lol:

OLG 

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

1899

 

.38 Spl

 

 

 

Lumpy, the point is....where does the Sport draw the line? If it were not for CAS, the 44-40 firearms, .38/357 and 45 Colt rifles would be few.......if more shooters shot the other "dash" calibers, those too would be manufactured. Supply and Demand!

 

True Phantom!
One must define "Cowboy" and the dates that it involves. Cowboys of the C&B's, 1870's, 1880's, 1890's 1900's, 1910's...pre WWI? where does it stop? ;-)

The most popular CAS caliber's are the 38's from 1899 and the 12ga from 1897, in reality of availability, dates pushing inside 1900...well into the smokeless powder era and certainly not my idea of the Cowboy era of the "Old West".  Might as well include 'Modern" Cowboys with .300 Magnums, AR's and Glocks.

Thus, my opinion...hehehehe...The "Wild West" from 1865 to 1875, the Old West from 1875 to 1885, end of the cattle trails from 1885-1895, and the smokeless powder cowboys from 1895 to 1905 to the 1905-1915 "1911's).

Edited by Savvy Jack

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I'm going to get a 1895 chambered in .460SW...pistol caliber...that'll show them cheap targets and clubs who's boss!

 

<_<

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Naw.  Phantom, what ya really really need as a pare of Walkers, Converted to 45 BRIMSTONE!!  BP with an ATTITUDE you betcha!!  :rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

I specifically said using black powder for that very reason.   It would not hit as hard as a smokeless load.    I would think an unconverted Walker with a full load of 60 grains of black would hit harder that my theoretical, and not entirely serious, scenario.

 

There is nothing wimpy about full load 44WCF or 45 Colt black powder loads.  

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12 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

There's 6 shot FA revolvers.

None are in .454 C. ;)

All FA made .454 Casull revolvers are 5 shot only.

OLG 

Yep.  Model 97 is six shot in 357 and a couple more calibers.  An additional cylinder in 38 special can be obtained for the 357.  The 97 is available with adjustable or fixed sights and it is a semi-Bisley grip, Colt style (flat main/hammer spring) revolver.  I have shot them in SASS for about 20 years. 

The M-83 in several different calibers was my choice in revolver class in IHMSA for many years and the M-83 in 454  is still a favorite for hunting.   

FA offers a number of options that can be added at factory including jeweling, octagon barrels, micata grips, round grip frame, etc. 

Outstanding, accurate revolvers from a family in Wyoming who are passionate about quality in their handguns. 

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Agree 110% on FA quality. 

My Premier Grade 4 3/4" bbl, 454 is the finest made and fitted handgun I have ever owned.

It's a LASER, with either top end loads push'n a 300 gr bullet at 1500fps. Our my plink'n load of 9.0gn of Unique(:P)and 255gn plated LSWC at 875fps.

OLG 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:

 

Lumpy, the point is....where does the Sport draw the line? If it were not for CAS, the 44-40 firearms, .38/357 and 45 Colt rifles would be few.......if more shooters shot the other "dash" calibers, those too would be manufactured. Supply and Demand!


 

 

 

Then only real black powder should be allowed. :lol::rolleyes:

And no gun carts :ph34r:

It's a gun game, that's all it is.

OLG 

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz

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How about a pair of Rugers chambered for the .30 Carbine?

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On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 12:04 PM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I just figured, Casull is longer than Colt.   Therefore, more black powder to make a bigger boom.

The question is would even the extra BP cause the Casull brass to expand enough to prevent blowback?

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I know H.K. isn't serious about this thread, just a way of passing the time...

 

Just thinking of the rules though.... if it is a "pistol caliber round", and can be downloaded to within SASS velocity limits, (or up to min. power factor), then the ammunition itself is legal. 

Looking up the specs on the Colt Walker, one fully loaded to capacity with powder is capable of "1,000 to 1,350 feet per second".  That falls outside the "legal" velocity limits.  The penalty for using illegal ammunition can accumulate to a MDQ.   Not to mention, the first time you dent a target with your ammo, you'll be told to put up your guns or use different ammo.  I was at multi-day match where after the second shot, the range safety officer told a shooter he was done for the day.  The shooter was putting some serious dents in the targets.  I believe he was shooting .45 "Ruger Only" loads... at least they seemed like it.

 

On my FB site, we get an occasional chest-beater who says he only shoots "manly" Buffalo Bore ammo.  We have to tell him about SASS rules, and that he'll need at least 120 rounds per match, plus practice, and each box of 20 Buffalo Bore rounds is $44+   They sort of disappear after that.

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A case full of H777 will put you over 1000 fps in a  45 LC and a Ruger.  While we did not run 60 grains in the 460 over the screens, I feel that 3F Goex would also get you way over 1000fps going on the perceived recoil.  Felt like a heavy 44 Mag going down range. 

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5 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:

How about a pair of Rugers chambered for the .30 Carbine?

 

No rifle rounds and IIRC has to be at least 32 cal :P

OLG 

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4 hours ago, Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 said:

A case full of H777 will put you over 1000 fps in a  45 LC and a Ruger.  While we did not run 60 grains in the 460 over the screens, I feel that 3F Goex would also get you way over 1000fps going on the perceived recoil.  Felt like a heavy 44 Mag going down range. 

 

A case full of 777 in 44 WFC out of my 1860 Henry will dent mild steel targets.

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Just now, Sedalia Dave said:

 

A case full of 777 in 44 WFC out of my 1860 Henry will dent mild steel targets.

Hope you don't use it at matches than with a full case of Triple 7.

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9 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Hope you don't use it at matches than with a full case of Triple 7.

 

He must be using hard hard hard cast bullets!!!

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10X factory BP

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2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

10X factory BP

But you don't use at matches... Right?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

But you don't use at matches... Right?

 

Shoot it every time take my 1860 to a match. Have over 400 rounds to shoot up.

Edited by Sedalia Dave

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