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Rance - SASS # 54090

What distance to practice concealed carry..

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Went out last week.. Was practicing at 30' for concealed carry..

when I got home I googled it..

Mosts Google posts said 6' to 10'..

What do you all think..

 

Rance;)

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If they are closer than 10 feet, they are too close already.  At 6 feet they can come pretty close to touching you with hands (or an extended weapon of their own).

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I'm a firearms instructor for law enforcement and also have my own business teaching civilians. By far most deadly force encounters are 12ft and closer but I strongly urge my students to be incredibly proficient at that distance to work it way out to 50ft. When evil visits you it will determine the time and distance. Will  you be ready? 

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Most Law Enforcement Qualification courses I've shot are from 3 yards to 25 yards.  I'd recommend practicing from 3 yards out to 15 yards for civilian conceal carry.  

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Practice from Contact range to out as far as you can shoot at that range. 

 

The guy that shot the shooter in the Church a while back did it from 50-60 feet. 

 

If you can do multiple targets, don't just Nevada Sweep every time.  Mix it up and don't develop the habit of R to L or L to R.

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I second Dirty Dutch Brody's sentiments.  I'm a FBI certified Firearms Instructor, and I also teach civilian concealed carry and self defense classes.  The vast majority of personal defense encounters are going to be less than 20 feet, but proficiency with your chosen handgun out to 50 feet is indeed necessary.  Also, don't forget to spend a good deal of time shooting one handed at close ranges.

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I practice at 10-20 yards. Makes targeting easier at closer ranges. 

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Marshall Hangtree..

Good point shooting one handed practice..

I also thought shooting from the hip practice??

 

Rance;)

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Posted (edited)

While not an instructor, when asked, I always recommend spending the majority of time shooting within 25', considering the standard 21' distance cited for closure with an edged weapon. Clearly, practicing some out to distances of 50' are beneficial as well. I don't practice much one handed shooting, other than for CAS (I shoot Duelist, after all), but I will on occasion, just to mix it up.

I will say, I am not one of those who tries to figure out how to best rack a slide one handed, or any of that, although I do practice drawing from concealment and presentation. I should do more, I must admit.

Edited by DocWard

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12 minutes ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

Marshall Hangtree..

Good point shooting one handed practice..

I also thought shooting from the hip practice??

 

Rance;)

And firing from a retention position, too.  At 6 feet, the further away from the body it is, the easier it is for the opposition to try to take if from you.

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24 minutes ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

Marshall Hangtree..

Good point shooting one handed practice..

I also thought shooting from the hip practice??

 

Rance;)

Yep.  1/4 hip, 1/2 hip, and 3/4 hip drills should be practiced until second nature.  These drills are for "bad breath" distance encounters in which you only have fractions of a second to engage.  The off hand (non shooting hand) is positioned to block or deflect attacks, hence the need for one-handed shooting drills.  Don't forget to add movement to the drills, ie lateral and offset movement to distance yourself from close assailants.

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Thanks for all your advise and input..

I always know I will get the straight honest scoop from fellow SASS pards..

 

Rance;)

Thanks

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Bad breath range shooting is why I don't like ported guns for concealed carry.

 

Shooting ported guns from retention or the hip directs the gasses into your face  and taking a face full of fireball or gun smoke ain't what I consider conducive to accurate shooting.

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I start my practice at five yards from the hip retention position and progress out to about fifteen yards. I don't shoot at contact distance because if you can hit at five yards you’ll hit at contact range. I practice shooting  from different positions and angles including from the ground and left handed. Shoot on the move  and from cover, reload on the move. Don’t forget low light practice.

 I’m fortunate enough to have my own range so I can do those things since most club rangers limit you to essentially target shooting.

Forget about the laser it’s guaranteed to fail when needed most  
 

 

 

 

 

 

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1- Google the "Tueller drill."  That's where the "21 foot rule" comes from.

 

2- The majority of self-defense shootings follow the "rule of 7s."  They occur at approximately 7 feet or less, use a combined 7 shots between both combatants, and are over in 7 seconds or less.  

 

3- According to the Tueller drill, the average trained shooter cannot draw and fire if their assailant begins closer than 21 feet.  The stats show they occur at 7 feet.  So drawing and firing "close quarters" is a skill you definitely need to learn.  Then, because nothing ever follows predictive models, practice everything from touching range to 25 yards.  Your "flash sight picture" is only good out to about 21 feet; for longer distances you need to aim.  

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A good friend of mine is a retired LEO. He was weapons and self defense instructor for his department and also taught some at the state academy. He did stress shooting one handed...both strong and weak side. Because as he said...if the bad guy wounds you...he won't stop. Be able to defend yourself with either hand in case of injury taking one hand out of operation.

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I really like the info posted above.   Good stuff.

 

I normally practice at 15 ft.   Period.   BUT....I practice multiple shot drills.

 

I do so because its not a problem for me to run a .22 auto for 10 shots on a pie plate in 'fast mode'.

BUT, I can't duplicate that with my .357 SIG or 10mm Springfield.   With the effects of recoil, I gotta

make sure my 1st shot is good and my practice helps ensure a couple followup shots will connect.

 

If I miss at 15' or closer, I hope the muzzle blast will atleast give me time for a good 'quick' followup shot..... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

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My concealed carry classes have always said. A threat at 20' can be on top of you before you get your gun out. Under your shirt or jacket does not lend itself to quick draw. They said to practice getting your clothes out of the way while drawing your gun. Also siad if anyone is closer than 20' to you, you're in trouble.

Ike

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10 minutes ago, Old Man Graybeard said:

A good friend of mine is a retired LEO. He was weapons and self defense instructor for his department and also taught some at the state academy. He did stress shooting one handed...both strong and weak side. Because as he said...if the bad guy wounds you...he won't stop. Be able to defend yourself with either hand in case of injury taking one hand out of operation.

 

I had a sergeant on the police department involved in a shooting just like this (before he was a sergeant).  He was in the neighborhood of an armed robbery, looking for the suspect while another cop was at the scene doing interviews.  He had a decent suspect description, and spotted a guy who resembled it.  He got out and stopped him.  While patting him down for weapons, the suspect spun around, drew a gun, and double tapped my sergeant in the chest with a .357 magnum. 

 

If you know how to draw a handgun from a hip holster, you know the supporting hand comes up to the chest while the strong hand is drawing the gun.  My sergeant did this, trying to return fire, and one of the suspect's bullets went through his hand.  Both bullets were stopped by his body armor, but he had a .357 magnum round pass through his hand on the way to the body armor.  

 

As the suspect ran away, my sergeant was able to return fire several times, but was then fighting one-handed.  All of his shots missed.  The suspect was captured later and convicted of Attempted 1st Degree Murder of a Peace Officer.  He is still in prison.  The big development, however, was this incident caused the brass to change our training to include a LOT of one-handed shooting, drawing with the weak hand, etc.

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Posted (edited)

They put us through one handed loading loading drills annually.  Drop the mag, insert another mag and rack the slide.   Racking the slide takes some creativity.  Heal of your boot, edge of duty belt etc.   Left handed shooting was part of our qualification course.

Edited by Badlands Bob #61228
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Posted (edited)

Practice a lot with your weak hand

 

in Masaad Ayoob’s class it is demonstrated that an attacker of average ability can menace a victim of average ability from seven yards before victim can draw point and shoot.  Note that I did not say ‘aim’.  Your job is to be better than average.

Edited by Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984
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I practice from 10Ft to 20 ft. I'm using a S&W Airweight in .38spl. I also fire off a few rounds at 30-40 ft and a also left handed. It's important to practice even just a little bit with your weak hand just in case something happens to your strong hand at least it won't feel totally foreign. 

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3 hours ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

Practice from Contact range to out as far as you can shoot at that range. 

 

The guy that shot the shooter in the Church a while back did it from 50-60 feet. 

 

If you can do multiple targets, don't just Nevada Sweep every time.  Mix it up and don't develop the habit of R to L or L to R.

It's like Sunday Dinner.  Everybody gets a first helping before anybody gets seconds.  

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I was told this at several schools.

 

when you practice weak handed, fold your strong hand in so that your hand will be near your sternum. That will create a stronger bridge across your shoulders and might be the actual situation if your dominant wing is injured.

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If the fight starts and the gun isn't already in your hand, your tactics need improvement.

 

I practice from ranges up close and personal to 15-20 yards with my self defense guns. I shoot my guns at farther ranges frequently as well to have a level of comfort with them, but if I end up in a gunfight with a snubby .38 special in my hand, I am not going to be slinging lead 25 yards down range, I am going to be heading for cover in a zig zag pattern as fast as I can.

 

For newer shooters up close builds confidence-which can be false confidence.  Shoot up close and as far as the gun is practically designed for until you are proficient at all ranges.

and practice your draw and reload

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28 minutes ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

It's like Sunday Dinner.  Everybody gets a first helping before anybody gets seconds.  

Agreed.  One thing we were taught is that the El Presidente is silly.  If you engage each target with two rounds before servicing the next,

you will be 3 or 4 seconds into the fight before you attend to the third. guy.  He's not standing around checking your scores, he's fighting too.

Hit each one once and assess.

 

Distance favors the marksman.  Know your firearm and you ability to hit accurately with it up to your own limit.  If a stable surface presents itself, like a

desktop or a car hood, use it to take more accurate shots. 

 

Practice head shots (hostage rescue shots) until you know your ability and to what range.  Some of these guys wear jackets with lots of mag's, others

buy body armor, and worse yet are the guys who wear explosive vests.  

 

Practice drawing from your holster with either hand and engaging one handed from Point Blank to your maximum accurate range.  You may get hit first,

and be one handed at that point.

 

Assume you've been hit and are down on your back, can you draw and shoot down range safely from a prone position without blowing off your own toes? 

 

Food for though - and if you have an outdoor range where you can practice these things it helps.

Will you ever need to do these - hope to God not ever.  Know you can helps though.

 

Stay safe!

 

SC

 

 

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Arms length to about 35'.

Don't let a knife get closer than 21'.

Practice strong hand and weak hand.

Do reload and malfunction drills.

Practice from  standing to laying on your stomach and back.

If you can-pratice from a car driver's and passenger seat.

OLG 

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33 minutes ago, J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE said:

If the fight starts and the gun isn't already in your hand, your tactics need improvement.

 

Really:huh: How does that work when you are attacked from behind on a busy street?

Even though you are in 'condition yellow'.....

This was the 'environment' of my second SD event, many years ago.

OLG 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

Marshall Hangtree..

Good point shooting one handed practice..

I also thought shooting from the hip practice??

 

Rance;)

Yes. From extremely close distance. Arms length to 1 1/2 yds.

And don’t forget to do immediate action drills, and weak hand.

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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I got my CCW in 1999.

I took an advanced CCW and situation courses in the next few years.

One of themes in the two later courses was to reduce a local threat by being aware of others and using cover/concealment/movement/attitude to address local threats.

FWIW, I carry weakside, practice 10ft with both hands and transition to my strong hand for longer shots.  I feel as well prepared as possible.  I also stay out of situations that are more threatening like dark places, certain people, wearing confrontational stuff.  I drive a mommy SUV with no gun stickers.

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1 hour ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

It's like Sunday Dinner.  Everybody gets a first helping before anybody gets seconds.  

I figure to comes down to threat assessment to figure out shooting order. All things being equal, closest to furthest but no 2 situations are alike.

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15 minutes ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

I figure to comes down to threat assessment to figure out shooting order. All things being equal, closest to furthest but no 2 situations are alike.

Bingo.

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I remember Close Quarters being taught at 7 yards.

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Remember that at contact distance if you are shooting a semi-auto and it is jammed into your assailant the slide may be forced out of battery and cause your firearm to malfunction.

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Posted (edited)

Just got back from a little practice with S&W 38 special w/3" barrel

Ruger 22 auto and Ruger LCP 380..

 

I shoot at target that are on 8"X11" paper.. Targets might be 7" circle..

The other day at 20' two handed.. 

The 38 special was all on target in the circle..

The  ruger 22 auto was all on target in the circle..

The LCP was all low and all over the paper and some not on the paper..

 

Today I shot all of them ONE handed at 12'..

The 38 special were all near center on paper.. Even shot 2 at 20' and hit within 2" circle.. Sweet little shooter..

The 22 auto.. Was all within a 4" circle..

The LCP were all on paper but all on the lower half.. No sight adjustment..

 

Thanks for all the feedback and info..

 

Rance ;)

Thinkin I'm going with accuracy and speed right now.. 

I shoot each gun til empty with multiple shots.. Not singles and re aiming every shot..

I will still need practice on offhand and different positions..

 

Edited by Rance - SASS # 54090

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