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Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967

C&R and Certificate Of Eligibility?

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Posted (edited)

My son and I were recently discussing potential benefits of a Curio and Relic license.  If I'm reading the online stuff correctly, a California resident with a C&R license cannot exercise its use unless s/he also has a state-issued Certificate Of Eligibility, or "COE."  This has to be applied for from the California Department of Justice after creating an account with the California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS).

 

I think.

 

So... any of y'all know if I'm reading this correctly?  Is it worthwhile?  Or will it subject one to greater scrutiny / liability?   :huh:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967

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1 hour ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

My son and I were recently discussing potential benefits of a Curio and Relic license.  If I'm reading the online stuff correctly, a California resident with a C&R license cannot exercise its use unless s/he also has a state-issued Certificate Of Eligibility, or "COE."  This has to be applied for from the California Department of Justice after creating an account with the California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS).

 

I think.

 

So... any of y'all know if I'm reading this correctly?  Is it worthwhile?  Or will it subject one to greater scrutiny / liability?   :huh:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Hardpan....what is all this CFARS, COE nonsense going to cost you, how much effort will it be, and are you sure of being “approved” in California if yo decide to pay and go ahead with completing and submitting these State intelligence-gathering documentation?

 

Cat Brules

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1 minute ago, Cat Brules said:


 

Hardpan....what is all this CFARS, COE nonsense going to cost you, how much effort will it be, and are you sure of being “approved” in California if yo decide to pay and go ahead with completing and submitting these State intelligence-gathering documentation?

 

Cat Brules

 

Doode...  I dunno ~ that's why I'm asking the question.  :)

 

 

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Hardpan,

Sorry, I have a vision disorder, pending corrective surgery (hopefully) and I’m having difficulty in reading for comprehension, these Topics and Replies very well anymore.  Creating a Topic or Reply takes significantly longer, too.  Anyway......

 

I guess that what I would do would be to go visit my local gun shop to find out what they know and to get their advice and assistance in filling out these forms (related to what you should avoid),  But more importantly, finding out what, if anything they know of pitfalls and/or hidden (surprise) California fees  you may have to pay related to such C&R purchases or later (post-acquisition) trades or sale of such firearms.....essentially, “is it worth it?”.   Whether your local gun shop actually can (or will) assist in any significant way is of course, to be determined.. 
 

Also, (get a notebook) as I found out dealing with “The State of CA“ related to other issues, I would call the “Sacramento” or the State-related Office Of “Whatever” until I found a friendly “subject matter expert“ and quiz them as completely as possible, then get their name and phone to call them back later as things came up.  Your C&R business likely won’t be very involved, but it’s good to have a path to follow if you find it necessary.  You can get a lot of help that way.


I think it’s safe to say that you don’t have to be paranoid to distrust The State of California. 
 

Maybe you’ve already considered all this.

 

Cat Brules

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I do not know details about this Hardpan but I was in my favorite LGS and a guy came in to ask that very question a few months ago. I recall the clerk telling him that the DOJ will want to know if he had a “storefront” operation and that he would have a hard time getting a C&R cert from the state if he didn’t have a store. 
 

I do not know if this is a fact. I would call the DOJ. 

 

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5 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I do not know details about this Hardpan but I was in my favorite LGS and a guy came in to ask that very question a few months ago. I recall the clerk telling him that the DOJ will want to know if he had a “storefront” operation and that he would have a hard time getting a C&R cert from the state if he didn’t have a store. 
 

I do not know if this is a fact. I would call the DOJ. 

 

Ridiculous a C&R isn’t a license to deal in firearms! But it being California, I wouldn’t doubt it. :angry:

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16 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Ridiculous a C&R isn’t a license to deal in firearms! But it being California, I wouldn’t doubt it. :angry:

Yep...Two Years and Seven Months until I get the hell out of here...

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On 6/25/2020 at 6:07 AM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I do not know details about this Hardpan but I was in my favorite LGS and a guy came in to ask that very question a few months ago. I recall the clerk telling him that the DOJ will want to know if he had a “storefront” operation and that he would have a hard time getting a C&R cert from the state if he didn’t have a store. 
 

I do not know if this is a fact. I would call the DOJ. 

 

Totally backwards. If you have a storefront, you likely need a "full" FFL.

 

Very difficult to get a full FFL in many places without a storefront, but that storefront can be virtual (web site). Local zoning will impact if you can run a "full" FFL out of your home.

 

On the flip side, the DOJ may frown on you actually dealing guns (buying and selling for profit), even if only C&Rs as a business without a "full" FFL.

 

But a C&R license is designed and intended to make it easier for legitimate collectors to build and curate a personal collection of firearms.

 

For California, and since you mentioned your son... You may also want to learn about gun trusts. And not from me or the local gun counter. A local attorney specializing in these matters should be willing to give you a free consult.

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when I lived in San Diego in the '70s California was a wonderful place, if a bit pricy and taxy.  

But it now seems that it does not trust its citizens.  

That seeming to be the case, you aren't paranoid if someone is really out to get you.

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Posted (edited)

All I can say is that having a C&R is a great help in obtaining hard to find guns.  I live in Massachusetts, which has gun laws that are in some ways more restrictive than California.  In a nutshell, you must have a "gun permit" to buy or even own a gun in this state.   There are two kinds.   A Firearms Identification Card, or an FID, or a Licence to Carry Firearms, an LTC.   An FID allows you to purchase and own rifles and shotguns.  An LTC allows you to purchase and own rifles shotguns and pistols.   If you don't have one, you can't buy a gun in this state, and even owning one without said permit will land you in state prison for at least a year.   But once you've got the permit, you can buy and sell and own as many guns as you want.  And there is no waiting period.  They also allow you to buy ammunition and reloading components.   The kicker is that the guns have to be legal to sell in Massachusetts.    No "assault weapons" unless they were registered in state prior to 1994 and no pistols unless they are on the "approved" list.  [There actually 2 lists, but it's too complicated to explain]  Basically, if the state has not been convinced that a particular handgun is "safe" it can not be sold in this state.   This is why you can't buy a new SAA or 1911, they are deemed to be unsafe designs.   If the gun was registered in state prior to, I think, 1998, it can be sold as a used handgun.   If you happen to own not legal for sale guns and then move into the state, you can bring them with you, you just have to register them the same as any and all firearms.  What is unclear is if you can ever sell them or not.   There is one notable exception to this prohibition, any gun that is C&R eligible, may be bought and sold by someone with a C&R licence.   It is not uncommon to go into local gunshops here and see a note on the tag that says, "C&R Only."  But before you can make use of your C&R in this state, you've got to already have the FID or LTC so that you can own guns in general.  And of course, getting an FID or LTC is entirely up to the discretion of the local Chief of Police.

 

BTW, all of this means that the earliest AR's are obtainable in Massachusetts because they are now C&R.

So, my question is, what is the purpose of those other things in California?   I have read that California C&R holders do have to have their guns shipped in a regular FFL in California, and that they will then transfer the gun to a California C&R holder.  I am not sure how that all works, and I am fuzzy on the details.   The best thing to do is find a local C&R holder and ask him what has to be done to get it, and what are any state imposed limitations it has.  

But, it could be worse.   I know for a fact that a C&R is worthless in NJ, and I believe also in NY.  

 

One other thing, a C&R does NOT allow you to conduct any kind of business in C&R type firearms.  It is ONLY a permit to allow you, as an individual, to engage in interstate commerce, that is to say, the buying and selling of firearms across the country, for the purpose of enhancing your PERSONAL firearms collection.   You are not a dealer in any way shape or form.   And the firearms you buy and sell must be C&R type guns.   Those are guns that are over 50 years old, automatically, and sometimes guns that are under 50 years old that the ATF has determined are of more collector interest than any potential use as a weapon.  Examples would be 2nd Generation Colts, all Colt Sheriff's models as long as they are .44's or .45's, or say a brand new 3rd Gen that has factory engraving and a letter of authenticity from the factory to prove it.
 

Good luck.

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

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Before I retired I had a coworker who collected WWII & newer military firearms.  He got a C&R FFL; because, he went to the Big Reno Gunshow a couple of times a year to acquire C&R firearms.  He stated the reason to get the FFL was to avoid the hassle & cost of paying for a firearm, shipping it to conveniently located FFL & waiting 10 business days to take possession.  Besides the convenience of the C&R FFL he figured it would pay for itself in less than 2 years.

P.S. A CA resident with a FFL #3 (C&R) can buy ammo off the internet & have it shipped to their residence.

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On 6/25/2020 at 12:02 PM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Yep...Two Years and Seven Months until I get the hell out of here...

It was one of the best decisions I ever made 

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24 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

It was one of the best decisions I ever made 


Yep...this’ll be my fourth time...yes, I am crazy. 

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5 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:


Yep...this’ll be my fourth time...yes, I am crazy. 

Or just a glutton for punishment :) 

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2 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Or just a glutton for punishment :) 

You have to go to where the job is.

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2 minutes ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

You have to go to where the job is.

It would have to be a pretty fantastic job to get me to ever want to live there again. I always used to say it’s a nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there. Now I don’t even wanna visit anymore 

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18 minutes ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

You have to go to where the job is.


Thanks, Duffield. :)

 

14 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

It would have to be a pretty fantastic job to get me to ever want to live there again. I always used to say it’s a nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there. Now I don’t even wanna visit anymore 

It’s a fairly well paying job but most of all it adds 4 more years to an already vested 15 year retirement package. ;)

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13 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:


Thanks, Duffield. :)

 

It’s a fairly well paying job but most of all it adds 4 more years to an already vested 15 year retirement package. ;)

Ya gotta do what you gotta do , every one wants to retire some day . Well I guess not everyone but the sane ones 

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