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Aravaipa Al, SASS #39492

Ruger Blackhawk same size as "old" Vaquero?

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Simple question, I think.  Originally, Ruger made the Blackhawk, and put fixed sights on it to make the Vaquero.  Then they made the New Vaquero in a slightly smaller frame size than the Vaquero (Blackhawk), but kept making the Vaquero.  Now they've dropped the original ("old") Vaquero, and re-named the New Vaquero as the Vaquero.  But their current Blackhawk:  is that still the same frame size as the original Blackhawk and the original  ("old") Vaquero?  That is, still the bigger frame than the former New Vaquero which is the current Vaquero?  ("The revolver formerly known as New Vaquero"?).

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Yes and no. There are two sizes of New Model Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks. There Are the large frame ones that are chambered in .44 Magnum and maybe other calibers. The mid size frame is the same as New Vaqueros and is chambered in .357 Magnum and .44 Special, and maybe other calibers. The Vaquero is the same size as the large frame Blackhawks.

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Here ya go...

------------------------
Cylinder Diameter
------------------------
1.652 Colt SAA
1.674 US Firearms
1.732 Pre-2005 Vaquero
1.675 Post-2005 Vaquero
1.672 Old Model Blackhawk 357

---------------------
Cylinder Length
---------------------
1.607 Colt SAA
1.625 US Firearms
1.703 Pre-2005 Vaquero
1.610 Post-2005 Vaquero
1.602 Old Model Blackhawk 357

------------------------------
Frame Window Height
------------------------------
1.672 Colt SAA
1.690 US Firearms
1.763 Pre-2005 Vaquero
1.700 Post-2005 Vaquero
1.700 Old Model Blackhawk 357

 

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Posted (edited)

The original Blackhawk, introduced in 1955, was the mid size .357 frame. Then, the .44 Magnum Blackhawk was introduced and it was larger than the .357 Blackhawk. In 1973, Ruger introduced the New Model Blackhawk with the transfer bar. This revolver was/is able to safely chamber six rounds. When the New Model was introduced, Ruger dropped the mid frame .357 and all Blackhawks were built on this larger .44 Magnum frame.

 

The Vaquero was introduced and built on the larger frame. Many shooters wanted a smaller frame, similar to the Colt SAA, so Ruger brought back the mid frame, with non adjustable sights, and called it the New Vaquero. The first Vaquero, built on the large .44 Magnum frame, was dropped and the New Vaquero became the Vaquero.

 

I believe the .357 and .45 Colt Blackhawks are built on the mid sized frame and the .30 Carbine,  .41 Magnum and the .44 Magnum are built on the large frame.

Edited by Muley Gil SASS # 57795

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Since most of these names are unofficial, we need to develop common designations for the “Three Screw” , large frame, and the frame used for the “New Model Vaquero”!

 

 The “Three Screw” works fine for that group.

 

 The “New Model” works well for the current edition, but the large frame Blackhawk was also called a “New Model” when it was released, so perhaps we ought to call them the “Large Frame” Vaquero/Blackhawk and “Small Frame” for the ones being offered now.

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No need for new names. There is Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, New Model Blackhawk, New Model Super Blackhawk, Vaquero and New Vaquero. Pretty simple. 

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1 hour ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

No need for new names. There is Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, New Model Blackhawk, New Model Super Blackhawk, Vaquero and New Vaquero. Pretty simple. 

Sorry, the Blackhawk sold today is NOT the same size as the one sold years ago and is NOT designed for the heavy “Ruger Only” loads the second design guns were made to handle!!

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Posted (edited)

Come to think of it, “Three Screw”, “Second design”, and “Third design”  might be a great way to differentiate between versions!

Edited by Blackwater 53393

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29 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Sorry, the Blackhawk sold today is NOT the same size as the one sold years ago and is NOT designed for the heavy “Ruger Only” loads the second design guns were made to handle!!

There is no “Blackhawk” sold today. Only New Model Blackhawks.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

There is no “Blackhawk” sold today. Only New Model Blackhawks.

 

Basically a third generation Blackhawk! Made to resemble the previous generations, but not up the the standard of its predecessor!! 

 

The second iteration was called a New Model Blackhawk, replacing what we call the Three Screw Blackhawk.

 

Calling this new generation a New Model Blackhawk creates confusion when trading/purchasing used non Three Screw Blackhawks, particularly if one is looking for the robust, larger framed gun needed to accommodate high pressure heavy bullet cartridges used for larger game.

 

Someone buying the current New Model Blackhawk second hand might be injured trying to shoot those heavier loads!!

Edited by Blackwater 53393

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5 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

Basically a third generation Blackhawk! Made to resemble the previous generations, but not up the the standard of its predecessor!! 

 

The second iteration was called a New Model Blackhawk, replacing what we call the Three Screw Blackhawk.

 

Calling this new generation a New Model Blackhawk creates confusion when trading/purchasing used non Three Screw Blackhawks, particularly if one is looking for the robust, larger framed gun needed to accommodate high pressure heavy bullet cartridges used for larger game.

 

Someone buying the current New Model Blackhawk second hand might be injured trying to shoot those heavier loads!!

How is it marked on the side of the gun? “New Model Blackhawk”

You can’t fix stupid. People are going themselves no matter. 
Like putting “Do not use in shower” on a blow dryer. It doesn’t stop stupid. 

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59 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

How is it marked on the side of the gun? “New Model Blackhawk”

You can’t fix stupid. People are going themselves no matter. 
Like putting “Do not use in shower” on a blow dryer. It doesn’t stop stupid. 

 

Uninformed or non-familiarity is NOT the equivalent of stupid.  Someone not knowing all of the ins and outs isn’t stupid!!

 

 I recently purchased a used second design Blackhawk for the purpose of shooting “hot” loads.

 

Had I not known the difference, and if I hadn’t made it plain to the seller during the exchange of information, I could have bought a gun that would not have served my purpose.  I was offered several deals, but only two offers were what I was looking for.

 

You may dismiss it as stupid. That’s fine!!

 

 I choose to have and use all the information at my disposal and to be as specific as I can, especially when dealing over the internet or in a situation where I can’t examine the merchandise in person!  Saves misunderstandings!!

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There are two cylinder frames available in the New Model Blackhawk.  The Flattop variant is shares the New Vaquero's medium sized frame.  It began as the 50th Anniversary .357 Blackhawk, later as a .44 Special, and more recently as a .357/9mm or .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible.

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Posted (edited)

I recently learned that if you buy a New Model Vaquero in 44 magnum, it is a LARGE frame vaquero. Frame is marked "New" but it is not the medium frame of the 357s. Ruger does not produce any 44 magnum revolvers with medium frames.

Edited by Ranger Dan
spelling

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I have one of the last Ruger production .44 mag revolvers with a medium frame:  The 50th anniversary Blackhawk made in 2006. 

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It would be nice if manufacturers would be more definitive when they introduce new products.  Hodgdon's originally produced three (3) smokeless powders in a line known as "Clays".  There was "Clays", "Universal Clays" and "International Clays".  Clays, was and is similar in burning rate to Hercules/Alliant Bullseye.  Universal is similar to Unique and I'm not sure what International is similar to, but it is mainly for shotgun loads.  To avoid confusion, I drop the suffix "Clays" from the last two powders, although they now label them as "Clays Technology".

So, it depends on what the word "is" is! :rolleyes:  It is difficult to tell the players even with a scorecard! :(

Stay well, Pards!

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1 hour ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

I have one of the last Ruger production .44 mag revolvers with a medium frame:  The 50th anniversary Blackhawk made in 2006. 

I don’t think it’s a .44 Mag in a medium frame.

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Posted (edited)

Boggus,

 

The grip frame on my 50th anniversary .44 mag Blackhawk is definitely smaller than my Super Blackhawks, but I'd have to dig both revolvers out of the back of the gun safe to see if the main frame is larger on the Super Blackhawks than the .44 mag Blackhawk.  At this point, I'm too lazy to do that 

Edited by TN Mongo, SASS #61450

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15 hours ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

Boggus,

 

The grip frame on my 50th anniversary .44 mag Blackhawk is definitely smaller than my Super Blackhawks, but I'd have to dig both revolvers out of the back of the gun safe to see if the main frame is larger on the Super Blackhawks than the .44 mag Blackhawk.  At this point, I'm too lazy to do that 

The grip frame is small but the cylinder frame is the large size.  The “medium size” cylinder won’t handle .44 Magnum.

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