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JohnWesleyHardin

Gunfighter Rules

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If a gunfighter fires both pistols at the same time, whats the penalty?

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Posted (edited)
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Failure to comply with the rules for any shooting style category will result in the progressive penalty for “Failure to adhere to the guidelines of the shooting category” (see penalties section).   

SHB p.6

 

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Progressive Penalty – Procedural for the first infraction, Stage Disqualification for the second infraction, Match Disqualification for the third infraction.  Example: failure to adhere to category requirements. 

SHB p.46

 

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Shooting out of category – failure to adhere to category-specific requirements/restrictions. 

SHB p.46

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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Shooting out of category?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, JohnWesleyHardin said:

Shooting out of category?

 

Quote

Both revolvers may be cocked at the same time but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring. 

SHB p.7 - "GUNFIGHTER STYLE" regs

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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I see it now.  Wasn't looking there.

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Look in the "Can of Worms" section.

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Posted (edited)

From the time I remember doing this it was a miss. May not have been the right call. Spotters only heard one ding not two. 

Looks like the call should have been a procedural.

Edited by Uncle Ethan # 94321
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I have enough trouble shooting one at a time accurately, I don't even want to try 2 :ph34r: :D  :FlagAm:

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5 hours ago, Uncle Ethan # 94321 said:

From the time I remember doing this it was a miss. May not have been the right call. Spotters only heard one ding not two. 

Looks like the call should have been a procedural.

 

Howdy JEDI Ethan.

 

Not necessarily.   If the spotters/TO could discern separate shots being fired, no penalty is warranted........  remember, the TO

makes the final decision and if He/She discerned separate shots, its a no call.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

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Has this penalty ever actually been issued? 
 

ive been counting and could not distinguish the shots. I indicated P,  TO disagreed. 

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10 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Has this penalty ever actually been issued? 
 

ive been counting and could not distinguish the shots. I indicated P,  TO disagreed. 

I picked it up once while shooting a stage gunfighter.  It was a double tap Nevada sweep.  Kinda hard to resist.

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17 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I picked it up once while shooting a stage gunfighter.  It was a double tap Nevada sweep.  Kinda hard to resist.

 

Heck, I would give ornery Pards like Capt Bill and TN Williams a 'P' just for shooting.......... :lol:

 

Howdy HOSS:  I have seen the 'P' awarded a couple times in my umpteen years of shooting, but I don't recall

ever seeing it progress any further up the penalty chart.

 

..........Widder

 

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The problem to me is what counts as simultaneous.  Technically physiologically no way to absolutely do that.  Fraction of a second, a second more?  For some, I can discern, some can't. Counting dings a bad way to go, should see hits on target.

Anyway, guess between three spotters and TO what eveyone thinks.

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I heard tall tales from a guy who'll remain nameless that they stopped shooting GF because they were so fast the spotters called a miss on more than one occasion.  I guess it could happen, but.... 

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2 hours ago, Hoss said:

Has this penalty ever actually been issued? 
 

ive been counting and could not distinguish the shots. I indicated P,  TO disagreed. 


TO has absolute and final word. Can not even be overturned by the match director 

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40 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

I heard tall tales from a guy who'll remain nameless that they stopped shooting GF because they were so fast the spotters called a miss on more than one occasion.  I guess it could happen, but.... 

it’s not a miss, it’s a P

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6 minutes ago, Wyatt said:


TO has absolute and final word. Can not even be overturned by the match director 

Absolutely TOs call.  Not arguing that. But the shooter was most definitely double cocking, and I had twice in that one stage where I could not distinguish 2 shots (was a double tap sweep) and could not see 2 shots hit target. I’m sure the TO called what he saw. But I’m also sure they were simultaneous shots (or so close cold not discern)

 

another match I was at, early in my shooting career, I saw a GF given a miss for this. I was not counter, but I clearly saw the 2 shots hit the plate, then the last shot of the string hit last target.  After much discussion a miss was awarded. Even after everyone agreed there were no misses. (Had a good berm behind targets, misses generally easy to see).  The GF was somewhat peaved, as he was given a miss he did not have, but in reality, if a penalty was due, should have been a P.  
 

nobody wants to give penalties. But if they are earned it is what it is. Personally I would remove this rule from the books. Too subjective. 

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10 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Absolutely TOs call.  Not arguing that. But the shooter was most definitely double cocking, and I had twice in that one stage where I could not distinguish 2 shots (was a double tap sweep) and could not see 2 shots hit target. I’m sure the TO called what he saw. But I’m also sure they were simultaneous shots (or so close cold not discern)

 

another match I was at, early in my shooting career, I saw a GF given a miss for this. I was not counter, but I clearly saw the 2 shots hit the plate, then the last shot of the string hit last target.  After much discussion a miss was awarded. Even after everyone agreed there were no misses. (Had a good berm behind targets, misses generally easy to see).  The GF was somewhat peaved, as he was given a miss he did not have, but in reality, if a penalty was due, should have been a P.  
 

nobody wants to give penalties. But if they are earned it is what it is. Personally I would remove this rule from the books. Too subjective. 

I'm not particularly fond of it myself, but if you remove it then you have to deal with the question of how do you call/not call a P on someone when you can't tell the order they engaged the targets. It's not so bad on something like a double tap Nevada, but on a regular Nevada you have to question, did he hit target 1 first, or target 2, target 3 first or target 4, or did he hit them at the same time.  Some will say benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter, but what about when the method of shooting creates the doubt?

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Posted (edited)

I realize the rules say, "one at a time".

I realize that vast majority of pistol targets are fixed, or "dingers".

I understand the rule is in place to reduce conflict in the majority of stages.

 

Some scenarios where a shooter must knock down 10 pistol drop targets sure would be fun to shoot as "gunfighter" without the rule in place, or with an exception to one shot at a time.

 

Just sayin'.

Edited by Palouse

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Hoss ..... YES!!

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3 hours ago, Hoss said:

it’s not a miss, it’s a P

 

It was his story not mine, I just let him talk.  I guess some folks like to spin a yarn and not worry if they're right or not.

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We have a local that double cocks and I cannot discern two separate shots a lot of the time. However since my hearing is terrible even with my hearing aids I simply remove myself from the situation and get someone else to spot.

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Remember fellers..... the penalty is not for 'Double Cocking'.   Its for those simultaneous discharge of BOTH

pistols, which make it very difficult for the spotters perform their duties CORRECTLY... and the TO to also perform their duties correctly

and assess the shooter as rightfully as possible.

 

Double Cocking is OK

Double Discharging ain't.

 

..........Widder

 

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Posted (edited)

I am not scared to call a P when a GF intentionally pairs shots too closely.  The proof can be the number of splits on the timer.  Ten pistol shots so close that the timer only records fewer shots?  

Edited by Tom Bullweed

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38 minutes ago, Tom Bullweed said:

I am not scared to call a P when a GF intentionally pairs shots too closely.  The proof can be the number of splits on the timer.  Ten pistol shots so close that the timer only records fewer shots?  

 

A TO should never rely on the number of shots recorded on the timer to assess a penalty. Seen too many times where the timer fails to pick up all the shots fired on shooters other than gunfighters.

 

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The rules for Gunfighter came from long ago as a remnant of the old gun control mind set. They are ridiculous in 2020. The idea that Gunfighter is illegal in age based categories is the absolute height of stupidity.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

The rules for Gunfighter came from long ago as a remnant of the old gun control mind set. They are ridiculous in 2020. The idea that Gunfighter is illegal in age based categories is the absolute height of stupidity.

I certainly wish you would stop promoting this false narrative.

 

There is NO such thing as an age based category.

There are pistol shooting style categories - there are equipment derived categories - there are costume derived categories - there are propellent based categories.

 

You are incorrectly identifying a shooting based category (supported) that is commonly divided by age as an age based category.

 

All of the base categories MAY be age divided to provide age protections but the base requirements of the (any) category are ALWAYS the style, equipment, propellent, costume FIRST and THEN divisible by age. 

Not the other way around.

If you wish to shoot Gunfighter category AND you wish to do so in a divided, age protected sub category - simply request that from the match director.

 

The ONLY reason that the multitude of age protections are currently enshrined in the supported shooting style category (and not yet mandated in other styles - beyond Duelist) is the sheer numbers of shooters utilizing the supported style.

 

As shooters age within the base category in Gunfighter, B-Western, Classic, etc.  You will discover (and looking at registration for any major match will bear this out) a dramatic growth in the offerings of age protections within more than just the supported category.

 

But continuing to respresent the supported category as age based first and claiming an inability to shoot Gunfighter within an age based division  (of Gunfighter) is misleading at best and a deliberate misrepresentation at worst.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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If I tried to fire both at once I would have 2 misses and the P.

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Couple of observations on your shooting, Warden. First, always stage your shotgun with the hammers cocked, it will save a few seconds in your time. ;) Second, might want to revamp your loads for the pistols. You're liable to get called on the smoke standard by someone done the line.:rolleyes:

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I shoot outlaw style and prefer to double cock, yes it happens and yes I have been called on it, hell,  I have even called it on myself before.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

There is NO such thing as an age based category.

Pretty sure the shooters hand book says otherwise. I've been wrong before though. 

 

Table of Contents

AGE BASED CATEGORIES .......................................................................................................................... 5

 

SHB pg 5

AGE BASED CATEGORIES
Age based categories are offered to allow all participants to compete amongst their peers.
Age based categories carry the following guidelines:
- May use any main match revolver.
- Revolvers may be shot in any SASS legal shooting style – EXCEPT Gunfighter.
- May use any SASS legal main match shotgun and any legal main match rifle.
- May use any SASS legal ammunition.

 

list of age based categories SHB pg 5&6

-Buckaroo/Buckarette: 13 and under

-Junior Boy/Junior Girl: 16 and under.

-Wrangler/Lady Wrangler: Age 36 and up.

- Forty-Niner/Lady Forty-Niner: Age 49 and up.
- Senior/Lady Senior: Age 60 and up.
- Silver Senior/Lady Silver Senior: Age 65 and up.
- Elder Statesman/Grand Dame: Age 70 and up.
- Cattle Baron/Cattle Baroness: Age 75 and up.
- El Patron/La Patrona: Age 80 and up

Edited by Turkey Flats Jack

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Warden,

I can see that you took it a little easy on Lefty.   

 

I think his hat makes him look faster..... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

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