Clay Thornton Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Who between the spotters and the TO would be the best official to call a duelist on having two loaded pistols out at the same time? Most TOs are focused on the muzzle of the pistol being shot and the reholster of the first pistol. Most Spotters are focused on the targets. Who can make that call and who should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 The TO should be watching the movements of the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 TOs call the procedurals, this one included. Good ones will take input from spotters on the call, as well. Quote Spotters/Counters – have the responsibility to count shots and misses and to verify targets were engaged in the correct order for the required number of shots. Page 22, Shooters Handbook TO has the rest of the responsibilities for calls on the line. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Clay Thornton said: Who between the spotters and the TO would be the best official to call a duelist on having two loaded pistols out at the same time? Most TOs are focused on the muzzle of the pistol being shot and the reholster of the first pistol. Most Spotters are focused on the targets. Who can make that call and who should? Not a penalty until one is cocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said: Not a penalty until one is cocked. Are you sure? I thought the second revolver could not clear the holster until the first revolver is empty. I don’t think cocking enters into it. If the second revolver remains in hand out of the holster while the first revolver is being shot, the shooter should be penalized. If drawn improperly the second revolver would have to be reholstered before shooting the first revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said: Not a penalty until one is cocked. This is correct. Just having 2 loaded revolvers in hand is not a penalty. But, as soon as one of the revolvers is cocked, then the penalty is assessed. If the shooter draws 2, catches themselves and holsters one prior to cocking either, no call. If the shooter has drawn the 2nd revolver before the 5th shot of the 1st is fired - then the shooter has earned a penalty for shooting out of category (progressive penalty). As to who should be watching for something like this, TO has the best advantage. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Ok , I agree. I misread “one cocked” as meaning “second one cocked”. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Barry Sloe said: If the shooter is drawing the 2nd revolver before the 5th shot of the 1st is fired - then the shooter has earned a penalty for shooting out of category (progressive penalty). As a clarification; Until the muzzle clears the holster is is not considered drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Quote When a Duelist pulls out the 2nd revolver and the 1st revolver is still out with live rounds (2 loaded revolvers out at the same time – only legal when in the Gunfighter or B-Western Category), can the shooter re-holster the 2nd revolver before shooting any rounds and not get penalized for shooting out of category? ROC Reply: In this situation, the shooter may holster one of the firearms to avoid the penalty, up until the point when either of the two revolvers is cocked. In other words, unless ONE of the revolvers is cocked, the shooter may simply holster one of the revolvers to avoid the penalty. Note: The “2 loaded revolvers out” ruling applies to ALL non-Gunfighter/B-Western shooters, not to Duelists exclusively (e.g. a Gunfighter/B-Western competitor shooting in a category other than Gunfighter or B-Western who draws both pistols out of habit). WR TG Meeting - 2017 Quote Only Gunfighters and B-Western categories allow two loaded revolvers “in hand” at the same time. This may be corrected in regard to any other categories before cocking either one without penalty. SHB p.15 Quote Revolver in hand – when the muzzle of the revolver clears the mouth of the holster, or breaks contact with a prop where it was staged. SHB p.46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Quote ASSESSING PENALTIES AND PROTESTS During the course of fire, a shooter may on occasion incur penalties which need to be assessed. The immediate authority on the stage to that end is the Chief Range Officer/Timer Operator (CRO/TO), assisted by the input of the spotters. The scope of assessing penalties includes safety violations, procedural errors, appropriate completion of stage activities, illegal firearms and equipment, appropriate ammunition, appropriate dress, and other category specific requirements such as the adequate production of smoke in the blackpowder categories. The CRO/TO may unilaterally assign penalties for safety violations and procedural errors when they have clearly occurred (this does not include assessing misses). Assessing misses is purely in the purview of the spotters. SHB pp.24-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 The TO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Barry Sloe said: This is correct. Just having 2 loaded revolvers in hand is not a penalty. But, as soon as one of the revolvers is cocked, then the penalty is assessed. If the shooter draws 2, catches themselves and holsters one prior to cocking either, no call. If the shooter is drawing the 2nd revolver before the 5th shot of the 1st is fired - then the shooter has earned a penalty for shooting out of category (progressive penalty). As to who should be watching for something like this, TO has the best advantage. BS Please see PWB's post below, and Page 6 of the Shooters Handbook. The penalty is for two Loaded revolvers, not Cocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 15 minutes ago, Flying W Ramrod said: Please see PWB's post below, and Page 6 of the Shooters Handbook. The penalty is for two Loaded revolvers, not Cocked. The entire quote from page 6 of the SHB is: "The competitor shall not have two loaded revolvers in hand at once. (This may be corrected before cocking either one without penalty.)" So, per the SHB, if 2 loaded revolvers are drawn and one is re-holstered prior to either being cocked, it is a no call. It is ALL about cocked or not. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Allllllllright. Enough! You can pick on those nasty Soot Lords all you want. You can pick on the Prairie Fairies too. And you can even pick on the brain damaged Gunfighters. But leave us Duelists alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said: Allllllllright. Enough! You can pick on those nasty Soot Lords all you want. You can pick on the Prairie Fairies too. And you can even pick on the brain damaged Gunfighters. But leave us Duelists alone. "..... brain damaged Gunfighters." You got that right. Next cold one is on me, SB. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 11 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said: Please see PWB's post below, and Page 6 of the Shooters Handbook. The penalty is for two Loaded revolvers, not Cocked. ? I don't think that is what PBW stated. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Interesting responses. Just goes to show ya how memorable undocumented (in the SHB) clarifications can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said: Interesting responses. Just goes to show ya how memorable undocumented (in the SHB) clarifications can be. "undocumented"?? Quote o The competitor shall not have two loaded revolvers in hand at once. (This may be corrected before cocking either one without penalty.) SHB p.6 Quote - Only Gunfighters and B-Western categories allow two loaded revolvers “in hand” at the same time. This may be corrected in regard to any other categories before cocking either one without penalty. SHB p.15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Shooting Bull said: Allllllllright. Enough! You can pick on those nasty Soot Lords all you want. You can pick on the Prairie Fairies too. And you can even pick on the brain damaged Gunfighters. But leave us Duelists alone. 3 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: "..... brain damaged Gunfighters." You got that right. Next cold one is on me, SB. ..........Widder As a nasty Soot Lord and a soon to be Prairie Fairy I'll be with Widder on this one...SB I'll take a cold one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 20 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: As a clarification; Until the muzzle clears the holster is is not considered drawn. , Or breaks contact with a prop where it was staged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 4 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: "undocumented"?? SHB p.6 SHB p.15 I apologize. What really got me was FWR's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 On 6/13/2020 at 4:53 PM, Captain Bill Burt said: Withdrawn. (I was looking at an older SHB version, and the rule has been updated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.