Moving out West

[Smoken D]

I'll promote Missouri. Just don't go anywhere near Kansas City or St. Louis. Lake of the Ozarks comes after Truman Lake and those two lakes alone have over 3,000 miles of shore line. Forest all around with overpopulation of deer, turkey. If you are a disabled vet 1 free license plate that you will not be taxed on that vehicle. Also social security is not taxed by the state. $200,000 to $300,000 will buy you a lot of land and a real nice home as compared with other states, (especially out west) A full 4 seasons with range of temperature range of 0 - 105 on the norm. Springfield a Great Town, but I prefer country living. Beautiful Fall, cold but short winters, Fantastic Springs and plenty to do during Summer. Still an American State, open carry, conceal carry without permit as long as you meet the criteria. Entire state Republican except K.C. and St. Louis. A really good state especially if you live within the Ozark country area. Branson is a great place to visit, but not in the summer. A lot of professional entertainment in that area along with Silver Dollar City which is a MUST. I'll quit here GREAT SASS SHOOTS AND CLUBS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Grass Range]

Central Montana where I am is plains to the East and mountains to the West. We only have 18 cows and 6 people per square mile so we are not overrun yet. If you are thinking Big Sky you better have real deep pockets.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

9 hours ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Question for you. 

Since this report is using data from six years ago has there been any follow up since then you are aware of?

 Also you mentioned patrolling “the ghetto”, where was that?

It has been a while but I grew up in Northglenn, Westminster, Thornton, Brighton, Henderson and Commerce City and am unfamiliar with where the ghetto is.

Don’t really care to go back much but family obligations pop up and make it a necessity sometimes. Much prefer the western slope these days.

Regards

 

  

 

Gateway Kid

 

 

1- I have not seen a follow-up report.  However, for my first master's degree (management) my thesis was an examination of management practices by the Colorado Springs Police Department and correlations with changes in crime rates.  Regarding that city, in 2005 it was in the top 10% SAFEST cities in the US when crime rates are adjusted to a per capita baseline.  In 2015, they were in the BOTTOM 10%.  When crime rates nationally were going downward, that one city was experiencing a massive increase, and it continues to rise to this day.  The question is, why?  I asserted the most significant contributor was the management at the police department, but that it was exacerbated by the legalization of marijuana.  My thesis panel agreed, gave me a score of 100%, and I graduated with honors  One professor wrote on the front page, "Dear Lord, that place needs help."  So either I'm a great BSer or my research is valid.  The paper I posted here (not written by me) looked statewide and did not consider management; it only considered marijuana. 

 

2-  The southeast quadrant of Colorado Springs (the PD's "Sand Creek Division") is that city's ghetto, and where I spent the bulk of my career.  On an AVERAGE shift, I would draw my gun three separate times.  I typically got new tires and brakes on the patrol cruiser every three months because of all the emergency driving.  It is unique, however, in that outside of the ghetto there are pockets of ghetto.  When I moved to the northeast quadrant ("Stetson Hills Division"), I worked the southern-most neighborhood within that division.  The ghetto was literally on one side of the street and I worked on the other.  So it was the same crap with a slightly lower body count.  The northwest quadrant ("Falcon Division") is the nicest part of town that includes the Rockrimmon and Briargate neighborhoods (i.e. soccer moms, million dollar houses, and lots of "Karens").  One of the civilians told me, "Down there in Sand Creek they call 911 when they can't stop the bleeding.  Up here they call 911 when their garden gnome is missing and then get mad when we don't call out CSI."  However, the Fillmore corridor is also contained in the Falcon division, and it is pay-by-the-hour motels, prostitution, drugs, gangs, human trafficking, etc.  Guess where I was assigned when I worked Falcon?!??   

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

I like Tennessee. Mountains, not the Rockies, in the east. Rolling grass and tree covered hills in Middle Tennessee(home of the Wartrace regulators, one of the prettiest ranges east of the Mississippi) and lakes everywhere.Western Tn is pretty flat but green. Some of the green is grass, some is trees, some is mildew- we have humidity.

Nashville, Memphis and Knoxville may best be avoided. Come to the TN State match, Regulators Reckoning Oct 8-10. Ya wont want to leave.

 

Imis I was born in Missouri and loved it. I lived in Colorado in my teens and hated it. Guess you cant please everybody.

[Utah Bob #35998]

12 hours ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Vacations!! Go see for yourself what suits you!

Yup. Took us 6 or 7 years to pick a spot. You need to research the weather, taxes, facilities, cost of living etc. My wife ruled out the beautiful but frigid climates of Wyoming Montana and northern Utah. 

[Utah Bob #35998]

12 hours ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

So it isn't just me that can't stand that STENCH??

Most cops can’t. 

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Thanks CC for the follow up. 
Grew up and lived in northern Denver and the suburbs there, didn’t have much reason to go Colorado Springs. Sorry your time there was unpleasant to you and I hope whatever you are doing now is more satisfactory to you and yours. 
regards

  

 

Gateway Kid

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

13 hours ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

 

All of your questions are valid, interesting, and unanswered in the report.  Most scientific papers have to limit their scope in order to realistically explore the topic at hand, and they almost always lead to new questions like the ones you asked.  So those would be excellent follow-on topics for future researchers.

I did read some of the report, just havn't had time to finish it. The one thing that did jump out at me is that it was written in 2014 and things have changed a lot since then. One statement was that most counties and cities have banned the sale of MJ. It was true then, but I don't think is today. There are to many tax dollars at stake. In 2018 Colorado collected way more tax dollars from the MJ tax than was forecast and had to refund millions back to residents because of our state law that say any tax  (new or increase) has to be voted on and approved by the taxpayers. Here in the 4 Corners area there are huge numbers of out of state people buying MJ. As I stated in my other post, we have a much larger problem with meth.

 

Also from what I've been told (I don't use pot so I couldn't comment) is that retail recreational pot is too expensive for a lot of the young people to buy. The people I see parking and frequenting pot stores seem to be older and driving pretty new vehicles. My police friends are the ones who tell me meth is the problem here.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

25 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Yup. Took us 6 or 7 years to pick a spot. You need to research the weather, taxes, facilities, cost of living etc. My wife ruled out the beautiful but frigid climates of Wyoming Montana and northern Utah. 

Same here UB. We spent 20 years vacationing and traveling in the western US (west of the Rockies). Once we found the 4 corners area, we bought our land and built our new home....our forever home!

 

Wouldn't change a thing, been here 20 years now and lovin every minute of it!

[Marshal Hangtree]

All of this stuff goin' on is why I LOVE south Alabama!  I can raise chickens, hunt deer, catch catfish and bass, cut my own firewood, shoot in the front yard, grow a vegetable garden, smoke meat in my smokehouse, and pretty much be left alone by outsiders.  Country Folks Can Survive.

 

Live in or near a big city anywhere?  NOPE.

[South-Eye Ned]

21 hours ago, Whiskey Hicks said:

Gun laws are definitely part of my consideration.

I suggest Oklahoma or Texas.  Texas has open-carry/concealed handgun licensing, if you take training.  The weather is dry and cooler in OK than Texas.  But, Texas has El Paso, San Antonio, Dallas, Austin,.......

 

We have Big Sky, too, and it’s one of the cheapest-costing states.  Property taxes are higher than average, but there is no State income tax.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

If you don't need saltwater there are a huge number of places to go in the West.

 

I'm in Tacoma, on Puget Sound, born and raised here and live about 7 city blocks from the church we were married in 53 years ago and about 6 blocks from my high school; the one my dad and my siblings, and our children and several grandchildren graduated from.

 

We have the high mountains and the saltwater of Puget Sound and the Pacific. I'm a few blocks up from the shore of Commencement Bay, and can be skiing in the Cascades about an hour and 15 minutes. And as been pointed out, once you're over the Cascades, you're in semi-arid cowboy country.

 

I've been a lot of beautiful places but could never live far from the saltwater. Of course, this is one of the main reasons the coasts are so populated.

 

You might consider the Spokane area; the city is very different than Seattle and Tacoma, only 4 or 5 hours from saltwater, and is the main metropolis of eastern Washington, northern Idaho, and much of western Montana. Indeed, Spokane is the biggest city between Seattle and Minneapolis.

[Utah Bob #35998]

6 hours ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

All of this stuff goin' on is why I LOVE south Alabama!  I can raise chickens, hunt deer, catch catfish and bass, cut my own firewood, shoot in the front yard, grow a vegetable garden, smoke meat in my smokehouse, and pretty much be left alone by outsiders.  Country Folks Can Survive.

 

Live in or near a big city anywhere?  NOPE.

Me too. And I only have 15-20% humidity. 

[Marshal Hangtree]

7 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Me too. And I only have 15-20% humidity. 

 

That's it.  Rub it in, Bob.

 

Actually, the humidity was very reasonable today, only 75%.  I've only showered twice today.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Locally its 8% RH.  My evaporative cooler is working really well.  Late summer when the monsoon is in progress the cooler doesn't work so well.

 

I have an Indian reservation between me and a crime-plagued city.  The Indians are a great buffer between me and crime - love my neighbors!

[Assassin]

Man shouldn't live below 5000 feet.

[Sedalia Dave]

15 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Yup. Took us 6 or 7 years to pick a spot. You need to research the weather, taxes, facilities, cost of living etc. My wife ruled out the beautiful but frigid climates of Wyoming Montana and northern Utah. 

 

I strongly suggest you spend a couple of weeks in any of the above states in January.  Their winters are nothing like you are used to. Wife's friend and her husband went to Montana one summer on a heavy equipment job. Came back to SoCal and sold his heavy equipment business bought a house and some land and moved there the following spring. They loved everything about it till winter came. By the spring thaw they were already planning their move back to the PRoK.

They lost a lot of money because they only owned the house for less than a year plus all the moving expenses. 

Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Nebraska and the Dakotas are beautiful in the summer but the winters can be a real eye-opener.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

21 hours ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Thanks CC for the follow up. 
Grew up and lived in northern Denver and the suburbs there, didn’t have much reason to go Colorado Springs. Sorry your time there was unpleasant to you and I hope whatever you are doing now is more satisfactory to you and yours. 
regards

  

 

Gateway Kid

 

I make double the money, work Monday through Friday with holidays off, sleep at night, and do things with my family.  My job can be a little boring at times, but who cares???  

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

21 hours ago, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said:

Also from what I've been told (I don't use pot so I couldn't comment) is that retail recreational pot is too expensive for a lot of the young people to buy. The people I see parking and frequenting pot stores seem to be older and driving pretty new vehicles. My police friends are the ones who tell me meth is the problem here.

 

Maybe you've picked up from The Wire that I'm a historian, and I believe there are many lessons to be learned from our past.  You've heard it said, "Those who don't know their history will be doomed to repeat it."

Well, I would counter that those of us who do are doomed to stand by and watch everyone else repeat it.

 

You see, back when prohibition was lifted, violent crime relating to alcohol SPIKED BY 300%!!!  Why?  The exact reason you mentioned.  The taxation of a now-legal substance inherently increases the price.  Violent criminal organizations (whether street gangs or organized crime) are unwilling to let a revenue stream die, so they simply start selling untaxed (and therefore illegal) products.  They are much cheaper due to the taxes not having been paid.  Thus, the criminals maintain their income and the consumers get their products more cheaply.  

 

And then the government has to increase law enforcement efforts to try to stifle the black market, resulting in higher law enforcement expenditures.  All the tax money you're talking about our state having collected doesn't begin to come close to the costs legalized MJ has created.  I will admit our state, county, and city leaders have neglected to put that money into law enforcement -- everyone in Colorado is undermanned and under budgeted -- but the cost increases to other governmental sectors have spiked as well, and that is detailed in the report I posted.  

 

Meth?  Oh, I know all about meth.  Don't forget I was a cop in the ghetto.  I barely recall a shift where I didn't see any meth.  I got so used to it that I could tell you where and how it was made by the color and crystal size (local "meth labs" using the "nazi" method versus Mexican drug cartels made in full-scale manufacturing facilities).  

 

What your Mayberry cops aren't catching is the return of heroin -- it's there, and they are missing it, I promise you.  In fact, in Colorado it has already become more endemic than meth, and most small-town and rural departments lack the training, networking, and experience to find out what is going on.  It's a long story; I may start another thread on it.

 

But we're not talking about legalizing meth or heroin.  We're talking about our state government intentionally thumbing their nose at federal law in the name of collecting taxes on substance abuse.  And it has backfired horribly.

[Assassin]

37 minutes ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

 

Maybe you've picked up from The Wire that I'm a historian, and I believe there are many lessons to be learned from our past.  You've heard it said, "Those who don't know their history will be doomed to repeat it."

Well, I would counter that those of us who do are doomed to stand by and watch everyone else repeat it.

 

You see, back when prohibition was lifted, violent crime relating to alcohol SPIKED BY 300%!!!  Why?  The exact reason you mentioned.  The taxation of a now-legal substance inherently increases the price.  Violent criminal organizations (whether street gangs or organized crime) are unwilling to let a revenue stream die, so they simply start selling untaxed (and therefore illegal) products.  They are much cheaper due to the taxes not having been paid.  Thus, the criminals maintain their income and the consumers get their products more cheaply.  

 

And then the government has to increase law enforcement efforts to try to stifle the black market, resulting in higher law enforcement expenditures.  All the tax money you're talking about our state having collected doesn't begin to come close to the costs legalized MJ has created.  I will admit our state, county, and city leaders have neglected to put that money into law enforcement -- everyone in Colorado is undermanned and under budgeted -- but the cost increases to other governmental sectors have spiked as well, and that is detailed in the report I posted.  

 

Meth?  Oh, I know all about meth.  Don't forget I was a cop in the ghetto.  I barely recall a shift where I didn't see any meth.  I got so used to it that I could tell you where and how it was made by the color and crystal size (local "meth labs" using the "nazi" method versus Mexican drug cartels made in full-scale manufacturing facilities).  

 

What your Mayberry cops aren't catching is the return of heroin -- it's there, and they are missing it, I promise you.  In fact, in Colorado it has already become more endemic than meth, and most small-town and rural departments lack the training, networking, and experience to find out what is going on.  It's a long story; I may start another thread on it.

 

But we're not talking about legalizing meth or heroin.  We're talking about our state government intentionally thumbing their nose at federal law in the name of collecting taxes on substance abuse.  And it has backfired horribly.

People have moved to Colorado because of the legalization of cannabis. It's having an impact on bordering states, the community mental health facilities are overwhelmed with people that are suffering from issues related to the abuse of MJ and other mind altering substances. Homelessness has increased also.

 

Any tax monies from the sale of weed is spent on mental health services and additional law enforcement. 

 

[Still hand Bill]

The effects I have witnessed here in CO are the homeless population has almost tripled in size due to legal marijuana.  Also I see many more people using it as it’s now legal.  I would be interested to see updated statistics now that recreational has been legal for a lot longer.   The legalization has changed the public perception and I expect kids are using in higher numbers.  

[Utah Bob #35998]

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

Wherever you move, stay away from the big cities. They suck.

[Three Foot Johnson]

9 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Nebraska and the Dakotas are beautiful in the summer but the winters can be a real eye-opener.

What's summer?  This was Monday - four days ago, near Garrison, about 35 miles west of Helena. Only about 4300 feet elevation, thirty degrees and snowing like crazy for fifty miles. The snow started about halfway up McDonald Pass just west of Helena, and didn't stop til around the little community of Gold Creek on I-90 about ten miles northwest of the Garrison junction, then heavy rain all the way to Missoula.

[Sedalia Dave]

45 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

What's summer?  This was Monday - four days ago, near Garrison, about 35 miles west of Helena. Only about 4300 feet elevation, thirty degrees and snowing like crazy for fifty miles. The snow started about halfway up McDonald Pass just west of Helena, and didn't stop til around the little community of Gold Creek on I-90 about ten miles northwest of the Garrison junction, then heavy rain all the way to Missoula.

 

That looks like a perfectly normal Summer to me.

 

Here in East TX 4 day ago it was doing its darnedest to get over 100 degrees.

[Chato]

On 6/10/2020 at 3:02 PM, Whiskey Hicks said:

Someday I definitely want to move out to Big Sky from Ohio. The girlfriend is opposed to anywhere in the Plains where she grew up. She’s also not wanting to be in the desert. It has to be green. 
 

Any suggestions? I’m thinking Wyoming, Utah or Colorado personally.

Yea. Leave her.

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 hour ago, Chato said:

Yea. Leave her.

A bit harsh. I wouldn’t want to live on the plains either. Too flat.
I do like the desert but many don’t. Takes a certain mindset. Or maybe it’s something genetic.

Plenty of green out here. Also brown, red, yeller, blue, purple, etc.

Lots of farms and ranches. Great rivers.

Take a look at a night satellite pic of the us. Notice where all the lights are. And move away from em.

Go west, young man. Go west. 

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

I can't imagine living at 4000-5000 feet.  I live at 10....yep, 10.  And as far as  view, I can see to the horizon except for one island that lays 7 miles offshore to the Southeast (Martha's Vineyard).  There are pluses and minuses everywhere, I guess,  I'm just one of those folks that needs to be on or near to the sea.  Luckily, Mrs. LL feels the same way.

 

LL

[Utah Bob #35998]

2 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

I can't imagine living at 4000-5000 feet.  I live at 10....yep, 10. 

Me either. I live at 7,000.  

[Chato]

2 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

I can't imagine living at 4000-5000 feet.  I live at 10....yep, 10.  And as far as  view, I can see to the horizon except for one island that lays 7 miles offshore to the Southeast (Martha's Vineyard).  There are pluses and minuses everywhere, I guess,  I'm just one of those folks that needs to be on or near to the sea.  Luckily, Mrs. LL feels the same way.

 

LL

Wanna buy a nice sailboat?

Would still be sailing if I could.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

2 minutes ago, Chato said:

Wanna buy a nice sailboat?

Would still be sailing if I could.

 

Beneteau 37 draws a bit too much water for my area.  Too bad you can't carry on; I know that day will come for me, sooner than I want.  But in the meantime, I'll sail as much as possible.  

 

LL

[Chato]

Draws 5 ft.

She is a pretty lady set up for the serious cruiser. She'll take someone anywhere they want to go

[Whiskey Hicks]

In her defense, she loves mountains, forest and the sea.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

Flathead Lake, Montana and Lakes Ponderay and Coeur d'Alene in North Idaho offer sailing, shooting, forests and mountains. We have it all but please stay in your gun control, liberal states and cities.

[Sawhorse Kid]

When moving West, You need to ask yourself........' How do I feel about the Cold season? '

The cold season is worse in some areas than others.