John Kloehr Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 And don't know enough to make a choice. I have an inexpensive setup which I can certainly use for a few matches. Glad I got it or I would have nothing. This setup for less than $200 is much better: https://www.historicalemporium.com/store/005024.php#sizing My lady has one holster from this company and it is better than the setup I have, but the opening is not steel-reinforced. How important is such a detail in this sport? Also, the text says it is a Buscadero style. Are there other styles or is that just a generic term for western style? My biggest issue with the setup I have is that holstering is slow, the second is a lack of laces to hold them to my legs (I'm sure they have a proper name), and the third is how much the holster lifts as I draw. Those are the main items I want to improve, what other qualities should I be looking for? Or should I bite the bullet and get a custom setup now rather than ultimately adding a rig like the one above to my rejected holster drawer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Don't cheap out on holsters. Very important(especially if you want to go fast) to have really good holsters. If you can afford it get the custom setup; especially now if for no other reason than to help out our leather workers that may be struggling because of the lock down. 1. They should stay open. Steel/Kydex lining isn't necessary but does help. Gotta be easy to re-holster(without looking). 2. They should retain guns at a full sprint. 3. The should expose the backstrap and trigger guard. There are at least 2 good leather makers at ORSA, talk to them. JM-Leather is not far from you in Bulls Gap; he makes excellent rigs as well. I'll repeat: Don't cheap out on your rig. TALK to some leather makers. My dos centavos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chert Rock Chuck Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I started with the same rig you’ve shown. Buscadero is not allowed in all categories but are required in B Western. Steel lined holsters are the key to fast draw and reholstering, as they retain their shape at all times.(Open) Chances are great that you will ultimately end up with lined holsters if you stay in a the game for long. My rig like the one shown, is currently used for gun cart holsters. Chert Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 John, You are in luck as far as being close to some really good holster & belt makers. When you get to Oak Ridge, most of the rigs you see are probably made by Curly Bill Kelly or Anita Margarita. Some may have also been made by TN Mongo. ALL 3 of these shooters do great work and shoot locally. Check em out when you get there. I don't know about being 'steel' reinforced but mine are 'metal' reinforced. I think the metal is some aluminum sheeting which allows great strength and durability, but also some flexibility if you want to bent out the lip at the top to allow for easier reholstering. I could be wrong on the metal type. My holsters were made by Curly Bill. My belt was made by Anita. My SG belt was made by Doc Noper in Michigan. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I too have a Buscadero made by Anita Margarita. It is beautiful and sturdy. Following is a photo of three holsters she made. Buscadero refers to the manner in which the holsters are secured. They are drop loop with the butt of the gun way below the top of the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 My 2 cents worth. Most fast guys in my area don't use Buscadero holsters for the reasons you stated; they tend to move around too much. They are difficult to keep down when unholstering as they are loose on your body. As for the tie downs straps, I personally hate them as they make the holsters and guns move with your legs, which is really annoying if you like to move fast between windows/shooting positions. You don't have to have a metal/kydex lined holster if the holster is made from thick enough leather, but it does make it easier to adjust the opening flare at the top. So, unless you just like the look, a Buscadero rig will not be the fastest option for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 25 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said: I too have a Buscadero made by Anita Margarita. It is beautiful and sturdy. Following is a photo of three holsters she made. Buscadero refers to the manner in which the holsters are secured. They are drop loop with the butt of the gun way below the top of the belt. That looks like Anita on the left, I ain't sure about them other two. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Chertrock Chuck said: Buscadero is not allowed in all categories but are required in B Western. B-Western does not require a Buscadero rig. There are other belt/holster styles that comply with the requirements of that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said: B-Western does not require a Buscadero rig. There are other belt/holster styles that comply with the requirements of that category. True. I use the Dixie Bell model of Ted Blocker's line for BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Call Nick at Knights Leather in SAN. He does custom work with fast turn around. His workmanship is the best. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashknife Cowboy Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Buy good once or cheap several times. Buy what is comfortable for you and remember two guns are heavy. There are so many quality rigs being made the hard part will be settling on one. I shoot classic so I do not use a speed rig, I use traditional styles from the 1880's. Remember this is not a fast draw competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tn Tombstone Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 John, I will echo what Wider said, we have 3 great leather worker in our club. All three are very good and local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 All things being equal go with a local leather maker you can talk to and that can measure and fit you on the spot. The outcome will be much better Unless you are sure you are going to shoot Classic Cowboy or B-Western don't worry about where you pistol butts are in relationship to your gunbelt. Focus on where you want your pistols to be for ease of draw and reholstering. Made properly. your holsters will not need to be tied down. The natural stiffness of the leather will hold them in place. In the beginning avoid a Buscadero style rig. I know what you are thinking... A Buscadero rig is one where the gunbelt has a slot cut into the leather that the holster attaches to. This effectively locks the holster to one spot on the belt. 99% of the holster used in the old westerns were Buscadero holsters. The rig you posted is a Buscadero rig. It is much more versitile to use a holster with a longer drop loop if you want your pistols to sit lower. The loop on the holster goes completely around the gunbelt and can be slid to any position on the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Hashknife's comments about using rigs from the 1880's is something to be considered. In those days the holsters were worn fairly high on the belt, with the belt loop riding up over the top of the belt. When riding a horse or even just walking, the gun was very stable. The buscadero rig is largely a product of Hollywood's imagination. They do pretty much require a tiedown that goes around your thigh to keep the holster from riding up while drawing the gun. If the tiedown is tight enough to keep the holster from riding up it will pretty soon press on your femoral artery and cause irritation and cramping. A holster properly fitted to the gun will hold it securely, but won't ride up. As Sedalia Dave said, the holster that goes over the belt can be slid into position to suit you (it may take awhile to see what's most convenient and comfortable. Once you have it positioned, you can, if you like secure the holster in place on the belt, using lacing or screwposts on the back side of the belt. Not necessary, but possible. You don't need Kydex or metal lining to have a good holster. Another thing to consider is where you are going to wear two guns. Let's assume you are right handed. Most shooters will wear one gun on the side of the body where your dominant hand is, and wear the gun with the butt to the rear for a straight draw. But what about the second gun? Can you draw and shoot that gun with your other hand, which you would either do with a butt-rear holster, or else after shooting the one gun with your strong hand, holster that gun, draw the second gun with your "weak" hand and transfer it to the "strong" hand. An alternative? Wear one gun on your strong hand side, and the second gun in a crossdraw holster (butt forward on the other side). That holster will need to be worn high on the belt. Just some things to consider. Best of luck and stay well, Pards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Clark Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 These are from Greasy Red in Silver City, NM. B-Western legal non buscadero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 John just to echo what others have said a good quality rig made for you will beat any off the shelf one you find. While it may be a little pricey at first it'll pay for itself in the long run. Using a fellow SASS member means that you've got someone who knows our game so that's a good start. And as long as you like the quality of your local makers then that's the best of all worlds. A lot of the cost comes from the labor of tooling and carving so a simple well made rig might save you $$. A Buscadero rig locks your holsters in a position on the belt, with a traditional set up, even with a longer drop feature, allows you to adjust the holsters in relation to your hips. Oops SD beat me to it An unlined holster (or belt) puts the rough side of the leather against the gun, a lined holster will use 2 pieces of leather attached rough to rough so you get smooth inside and out. Don't forget to get a matching SG belt, it's easier for the leather maker to match since veg tanned leather varies from hide to hide not to mention dyes also varies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Kid Rich said: That looks like Anita on the left, I ain't sure about them other two. kR KID, Indeed, that is Anita on the left. That's her Guardian Angel beside her... Don't know about the character on the right, but obviously someone with great taste for nice ladies..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 No doubt that the Buscadero can look cool, but they have some issues shooters need to consider. Our competition holster have improved SOOO drastically since we started. We used to try "authentic" thin leather holsters patterned after 100 year old designs that were made more for secure holding the gun rather than actually using the gun. Now we find rigid holsters to be much easier and safer to use. Look at the set you picture. First, the holster position is locked in - and normally not where most shooters would like - especially as we get a little older and lack full flexibility. Thhis applies to both the position and the holster angle. Next, it helps if the mouth of the holster is slightly flared outward to make reholstering easier. Notice that this set uses leather straps to hold the lower holster in place. That is an option, but it makes movement, setting down, etc more difficult. Most really good holster rigs (Holster & belt) now can hold the holster in place due to their more rigid construction. So the need for the extra string is eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 There is a reason Kirkpatrick and Mernickle holsters are well represented at SASS matches. Check them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 My holsters don't move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP McLintock Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 The biggest thing to look for in a set of quality holsters is the actual thickness of the leather itself, a good stiff holster is generally constructed with a liner made of the same thickness of leather as the shell, then wet molded to kinda be like a bucket so as long as the barrel goes in, the gun will drop into place when reholstering. Having the holsters free to slide on the belt is really nice, sometimes depending on your clothes you may want to position them differently, or if you use a shell slide it's nice to be able to fine tune them, Same goes for the belt, lined , made from the same thickness for shell and liner, bullet loops look cool but I'd skip them and use a slide and/or a shotgun belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 24 minutes ago, Mister Badly said: My holsters don't move. You bring up an excellent point. Once they are where you want them, you don't want them to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalope Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: KID, Indeed, that is Anita on the left. That's her Guardian Angel beside her... Don't know about the character on the right, but obviously someone with great taste for nice ladies..... ..........Widder The ladies' man on the right is none other than the infamous El Suave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said: You bring up an excellent point. Once they are where you want them, you don't want them to move. I have a Mernickle rig that has lockscrews to keep the holsters where I want them. I can't speak highly enough of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Mister Badly said: My holsters don't move. Who's the maker? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Jackalope made the belt and drop adaptors for me. I can slide them to sit where holstering is best for me and they do not move. No leg straps are needed. The holsters originally rode up on my belt but my arthritic shoulders don't like pulling up that high to clear leather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equanimous Phil Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 As many others said, a custom rig is the way to go in the long run! But, you really should figure out all details first before you place an order, like canting angle, how high they should ride (may also depend on category, CC, BW), but also things like where you wanna grab your reload cartridges. Some have shotgun loops on their gun belt because they don't like the additional shotgun belt. Most belts are 2.5", but you may prefer 2" or 3"? What materials do you prefer? A lot of options... Use your cheap rig until you're sure what suits you! Look at the details of your pards' rigs and ask them why they had them made that way. Ask if you can try their rig. I use a strong (right) hand and a cross draw holster, but I also ordered a third matching left hand holster as I intend to shoot gun fighter in the future, something you might consider, too. Something not mentioned yet: a good custom holster is fitted for the exact revolver model you use. Of course, some interchange very well, but still... Equanimous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 20 hours ago, John Kloehr said: And don't know enough to make a choice. I have an inexpensive setup which I can certainly use for a few matches. Glad I got it or I would have nothing. This setup for less than $200 is much better: https://www.historicalemporium.com/store/005024.php#sizing My lady has one holster from this company and it is better than the setup I have, but the opening is not steel-reinforced. How important is such a detail in this sport? Also, the text says it is a Buscadero style. Are there other styles or is that just a generic term for western style? My biggest issue with the setup I have is that holstering is slow, the second is a lack of laces to hold them to my legs (I'm sure they have a proper name), and the third is how much the holster lifts as I draw. Those are the main items I want to improve, what other qualities should I be looking for? Or should I bite the bullet and get a custom setup now rather than ultimately adding a rig like the one above to my rejected holster drawer? John, you should put a WTB post on the Oak Ridge Outlaws forum. There are a bunch of great cowboys who can help you out. Some have collected a lot of equipment and may want to sell to a new shooter. Our forum is seen by most of the shooters in East and Middle Tennessee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 A lot of food for thought here. I've been poking around a bit more looking at holster porn, appreciate the examples included above too. Hopefully I can go shoot in Oak Ridge Saturday. I will be paying attention to holsters, and asking lots of questions about them. I have not found web sites for the local makers, but I'm sure I can contact them by PM here or meet them at the shoot. My browsing has been somewhat random so far, will find info on the two "national" makers as soon as I have time to focus. But I do understand at this point I should not make a quick decision; This thread is giving me more info to consider. It has clarified a bunch of questions more than answered them which is progress. And they are questions only I can answer. Something I am pretty sure of... I'm not planning on cross-draw. I will take time to find out how the bandolier works for me compared to having SG shells on the belt. The Bandolier is a somewhat heavy item but feels natural to me. And as far as appearance in this fantasy sport, a bandolier (IMO) gives a great look as if loading up for a fight. I don't plan to go for either costume category. My approach is to create the look John Kloehr might have if cast and costumed for a B-Western, sort of. I have decided I'm not going to duplicate his look from the few existing pictures of him and I'm not shaving off my beard to duplicate his mustache. But if I did, I would sort of look like him. John Kloehr worked in his livery business, my (movie) interpretation is more of a management position (a bit dressier). So, JK (the movie version) would have nicely tooled leather but maybe not quite to the level of the costume categories. Maybe, as some of the tooling I'm seeing is incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Tooling and spots cost money. They are not necessary. Quality holsters and belts are mandatory for your enjoyment and success. You can have both but it will cost you. I personally do not like the shotgun belt, I have sg loops on my gunbelt, worn buckle to the rear. Plan on the TN State Match. Oct 8-10 in Wartrace. Imis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 16 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: KID, Indeed, that is Anita on the left. That's her Guardian Angel beside her... Don't know about the character on the right, but obviously someone with great taste for nice ladies..... ..........Widder Yep I knew that was Anita and Allie just didn't know who that young fella was with them. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I'm going to have to be the dissenting opinion here. Yes, well made custom leather is AWESOME! But you dont have to spend over $500 to get leather to get you started in this game. Certainly dont get a flappy thin leather holster out of a bargain barrel for $15. Get the best leather you can afford at the time. If it fits you and your gun, and holds the gun secure enough for movement while allowing you to holster easily then it is good enough. As you get better, practice, and move up thru the ranks of speed demons, you will most likely not only want better leather but you will probably be upgrading your hardware as well. When I was young, stupid and just starting in this game, I listened to a group of "top shooters" who basically told me that what I had and the choices I was making for hardware and leather would never work, would hamper me and keep me from ever shooting well in this sport. That was after they total bashed the internationally well known gunsmith that had worked on my Rugers (gasp I was using Rugers instead of gen-u-wine COLTS). It was not a good experience and it kept me away from SASS for a while before I realized that was all BS and just showed up with what I had and had a blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Found this holster as a basic price point ($300): https://www.mernickleholsters.com/products/704-official-sassstarter-kit/ Not pulling the trigger for at least a month or two, but looks well-made. Might ride a bit high, can't really tell by looking at it. And the ammo loops look like they might not hold up long-term (but easily replaceable slides). Then at the top end (going to have to think long and hard...) I do like how this one looks ($725): https://www.kirkpatrickleather.com/product/silver-king-model-k59/ The difference in drop is obvious between the two, but separate from appearance the system absolutely has to work first. And the second one does not allow changing holster position so I would have to be certain of that before buying. I do find this second one to be gun-gasmic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 5 hours ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said: Tooling and spots cost money. They are not necessary. Quality holsters and belts are mandatory for your enjoyment and success. You can have both but it will cost you. I personally do not like the shotgun belt, I have sg loops on my gunbelt, worn buckle to the rear. Plan on the TN State Match. Oct 8-10 in Wartrace. Imis Now go get a good hat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I have Mernickle rigs (4) One I bought new the others were used. I like used stuff it has character, I really like used guns, my only regret with used guns is not knowing their stories so I have to use my imagination. kR Just sayin if you buy new it'll only be that way until you use it the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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