Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

First shot drills?


Shooting Bull

Recommended Posts

I’ve been doing competitive shooting of one form or another for a LONG time. One of my weak points has always been my first shots. I’m very slow to get a good sight alignment because it takes me so long to find my front sight as it’s coming up onto the target. This is true for both rifle and pistols. What are some drills you use to improve your first shot times? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The hardest thing for me is to get moving at the beginning of the beep. Waiting to the end of the beep to get started is a fully wasted second.

 

So, finding the front sight... Good you know you need to find that, it is a critical step! Let's work on finding that sight and getting it aligned side-to-side with the rear sight at the same time.

 

What follows is for an isosceles stance, two-handed grip, and the strong hand is the shooting hand.

 

First evaluate your grip. and the gun grips. If the gun grips fit your hand, then simply gripping the firearm with the basic (approximately) 40/60 hand force will align the sights side-to-side automatically. You should not need to use your wrists to adjust side to side sight alignment if the gun fits your hands. And you need sight alignment before even considering sight picture (the target).

 

So, a first exercise for this... Prove to yourself that grip balance affects side-to-side sight alignment...

 

With a verified clear firearm, grip it as you normally do and get sight alignment. Your shooting hand should provide about 40% of grip strength, and your support hand about 60% of the force.

 

Now relax the shooting hand while tightening grip on the support hand. Then fully relax the support hand while tightening the shooting hand, and repeat. Do not change your wrist angles while doing this. Observe your sights as you vary the grip back and forth. You will see the front sight waggle back and forth just by the amount of grip applied by each hand.

 

Exercise two. Remember the grip feel of both hands.

 

Once you know the amount of grip which naturally aligns the sights side-to-side for your gun, build muscle memory by repeatedly drawing and applying the correct amount of force with each hand to align the sights.

 

If in either exercise you find obtaining proper alignment requires wide deviance from an approximately 40/60 balance or you actually need to bend your wrists from the isosceles position, evaluate the gun grips (thinner, or maybe thicker) to get the gun to fit your hands.

 

Hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I occasionally do one shot drills, with pistols I look at target, draw mostly straight up to about chest level then push out toward the target. I can usually pick up the front sight as I push out.

 

With the rifle I try to point it toward the target when I stage it. I try to pull the butt up to my shoulder and lever as I'm bringing the barrel up to the target.

 

I have found if I do too many 1-shot drills I tend to lose technique in favor of speed so I like to add an Evil Roy Drill. 1 shot, then double tap then single tap 2 targets.

 

I don't do these as often as I should but they seem to help. 

 

Randy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

I’ve been doing competitive shooting of one form or another for a LONG time. One of my weak points has always been my first shots. I’m very slow to get a good sight alignment because it takes me so long to find my front sight as it’s coming up onto the target. This is true for both rifle and pistols. What are some drills you use to improve your first shot times? 

 

Yet another thing for when we get together. 

 

Did you read the chapter on revolvers in my book where I talk about the draw technique?  After that, we need a chat.


Doc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

Yet another thing for when we get together. 

 

Did you read the chapter on revolvers in my book where I talk about the draw technique?  After that, we need a chat.


Doc

I for one will be reading your book (downloaded your free version, thanks!). If you ever go back to reprint it, PM me and I will buy a copy for my library. I can't pay what used hard copies are going for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

I for one will be reading your book (downloaded your free version, thanks!). If you ever go back to reprint it, PM me and I will buy a copy for my library. I can't pay what used hard copies are going for.

 

Thanks.  I hope you learn something helpful.  Doubt I'll do a reprint.  I'd need paid pre-orders for about 500 copies to justify the cost.


Doc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

Yet another thing for when we get together. 

 

Did you read the chapter on revolvers in my book where I talk about the draw technique?  After that, we need a chat.


Doc

Are you talking about "Breaking the shot"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

Thanks.  I hope you learn something helpful.  Doubt I'll do a reprint.  I'd need paid pre-orders for about 500 copies to justify the cost.


Doc

Hey Doc, look into Kindle Direct through Amazon to see if you can self publish your book as a second printing/edition.  It can be quite reasonable since you will be doing the work and own the intellectual material already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should have added more info in the OP. I’m a Duelist. (We’re the coolest:D) So two handed techniques don’t work for me. That being said, my previous competitive life was two handed with 1911s so I’m very adept at pulling straight up and pushing straight out with pistols. I do that one handed now but simply have troubles seeing the front sight as it’s moving toward the target. Yes, I’m wearing prescription shooting glasses “tuned” to front sight distance. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

I should have added more info in the OP. I’m a Duelist. (We’re the coolest:D) So two handed techniques don’t work for me. That being said, my previous competitive life was two handed with 1911s so I’m very adept at pulling straight up and pushing straight out with pistols. I do that one handed now but simply have troubles seeing the front sight as it’s moving toward the target. Yes, I’m wearing prescription shooting glasses “tuned” to front sight distance. 

 

Gotcha.  Something to work on in a dry fire "virtual" lesson.


Doc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great advice.

 

Practice slow (and smooth).  think, see and feel every movement. 

Bring your gun (front sight) up to your eye level fairly early in the draw. 

 

As you practice, you should see the front sight pretty quickly and then as you begin to push the pistol to the target, it should be pretty well lined up and ready to fire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A tip I was just given... for unloaded, at home, practice time:

 

Find a target on the wall.  Get into your normal shooting stance.  Close your eyes, draw and point the gun where the target is...

Open your eyes.  Are you pointing at the target, or to the left or right?

Adjust your stance a little, foot forward or back, until you are naturally pointing at the target when you draw with eyes closed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

I should have added more info in the OP. I’m a Duelist. (We’re the coolest:D) So two handed techniques don’t work for me. That being said, my previous competitive life was two handed with 1911s so I’m very adept at pulling straight up and pushing straight out with pistols. I do that one handed now but simply have troubles seeing the front sight as it’s moving toward the target. Yes, I’m wearing prescription shooting glasses “tuned” to front sight distance. 

What kind of front sights do you have.  I put brass front sights on my Rugers and like them a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two handed doesn't work for NRA bullseye. <_< As a Gunfighter, is doesn't do much for me in CAS either.  :angry:

 

Fast draw is useless in NRA matches and is close to that in CAS. However, It's essential in Cowboy Fast Draw matches.

 

I utilize lots of  dry firing and fast draw for CFDA.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

What kind of front sights do you have.  I put brass front sights on my Rugers and like them a lot.

I had Slick put his brass wraps on my FAs also, and like them.

As Randy, I try to come "up and forward"  but do find it easier with right than left. Not sure why, other than just shot so many years as right being strong side.  After several years of practice, I find my left the better and faster in shot-to-shot.  Perhaps the right thumb just got to arthritic and slower, however, right is still fasted out.  I do think the up/forward motion is much more beneficial to the two-handed shooter as they can fire a shot with accuracy before arms completely forward.  As a duelist, I need the fuller extension for accuracy.

 

I believe our discussion to OP is assuming drills are starting with hands on gun, but if drill is to include other placement of hands (hat, touching belt, etc), do you look at gun as you wait for beep or concentrate vision on target?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just watched a video with Jerry and Lena Miculek and they (not surprisingly) made a great point about vision.  If you are looking at the target, you can inadvertently create a blind spot in your presentation that will slow your ability to pickup your front sight.  They described the need to bring your focus back to a foot or two in front of you.  I think that staring at the target actually works against you.  I do better when I look at the gun I an going to draw and bring my focus up after my hand hits it...not sure if that makes sense.

 

The point made above about closing your eyes and figuring out where your natural point of aim is, is also really good.  I think we have a tendency to stand far too sideways from the target and if you experiment you may find a different stance allows you to me stronger and more natural in your presentation and that could equal faster!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I found "first shot" drills to be essential.  If you miss the first target, you're going to be thinking about that miss rather than concentrating on the next shot. I shoot gunfighter (Dualist with both hands simultaneous) so two handed stuff just doesn't work.  I have also found, for my eyesight, prescription shooting glasses to be a hinderance.  I never start with "hands on guns."  I have to start with my hands just hanging loose.  You can NOT miss fast enough to do well.  Take the extra half second to insure your sights and get a HIT.  I use to stand at my targets.  Draw and fire.  Holster.  REPEAT until empty then reload and start over.  Very important to hit that first target. I never, ever look at the target once I know where it is.  Look at the sights and the target should be fuzzy wuzzy.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

 

I believe our discussion to OP is assuming drills are starting with hands on gun, but if drill is to include other placement of hands (hat, touching belt, etc), do you look at gun as you wait for beep or concentrate vision on target?

 

I look at the pistols whenever possible.They’re so pretty. :D

097736C8-56A0-4B68-88BC-B1D517CEA31A.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

I had Slick put his brass wraps on my FAs also, and like them.

As Randy, I try to come "up and forward"  but do find it easier with right than left. Not sure why, other than just shot so many years as right being strong side.  After several years of practice, I find my left the better and faster in shot-to-shot.  Perhaps the right thumb just got to arthritic and slower, however, right is still fasted out.  I do think the up/forward motion is much more beneficial to the two-handed shooter as they can fire a shot with accuracy before arms completely forward.  As a duelist, I need the fuller extension for accuracy.

 

I believe our discussion to OP is assuming drills are starting with hands on gun, but if drill is to include other placement of hands (hat, touching belt, etc), do you look at gun as you wait for beep or concentrate vision on target?

If I'm starting hands on pistol(s), or if I'm starting SASS default (pistols first) I look at the target, as I can find the pistols without looking at them.  If I'm starting in any other position or with any gun other than pistols I'll start looking at the gun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Do you aim left eye left pistol, right eye right pistol and do you have more trouble picking up the sights when using a specific hand?

yeks...thought both eyes were to be open.  Unfortunately, not all can to that efficiently,  and I suppose in reality, one eye is actually dominantly focusing even though both are open.  I don't feel I focus more with one eye than the other per gun.

 

If starting in any position other than hands on revolvers, I think a key to finer points of a duelist's success is the immediate griping of both revolvers at beep.  Thus first shot from second revolver should be close to, maybe faster, than first shot from chosen "strong side".   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

yeks...thought both eyes were to be open.  Unfortunately, not all can to that efficiently,  and I suppose in reality, one eye is actually dominantly focusing even though both are open.  I don't feel I focus more with one eye than the other per gun.

 

If starting in any position other than hands on revolvers, I think a key to finer points of a duelist's success is the immediate griping of both revolvers at beep.  Thus first shot from second revolver should be close to, maybe faster, than first shot from chosen "strong side".   

Ideally yes, both eyes open is best, but, if you're dominant eye is on the opposite side as your dominant hand (mine is) you may end up seeing double if you try that (I do).  I'm left eye dominant, right handed.  If I try to shoot right handed with both eyes open I see two sights.  If I shoot left handed with both eyes open I only see one sight.  So I have to choose, shoot with left eye closed, or shoot left handed.  I've chosen to shoot with left eye closed.

 

I'm not a duelist, but I have observed many duelists who 'cant' that left revolver, I assume to get it in line with their dominant eye.  I'm wondering if Sitting Bull is having a problem with something related to that.  The few times I have shot duelist I shot right handed, left eye closed, then left handed, right eye closed. That messes up my depth perception a bit, but it's better than seeing two sights and having to choose which one is right. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's some good advice in this thread and some bad advice IMO.  Drawing to a target with your eyes closed is great advice, it will really show you how your stance affects your pistol shooting.  Since you didnt say anything about having a problem drawing the gun just getting the sights on the first target, I would suggest that when you're working on this start with your hands on the pistols.  When you're working on trying to improve something you really need to focus on that one thing.  Starting with your hands off the pistol just adds another layer of complexity that you don't need right now.  Once you get your draw down and you can literally do it with your eyes closed and get the hits then you can add other things to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Ideally yes, both eyes open is best, but, if you're dominant eye is on the opposite side as your dominant hand (mine is) you may end up seeing double if you try that (I do).  I'm left eye dominant, right handed.  If I try to shoot right handed with both eyes open I see two sights.  If I shoot left handed with both eyes open I only see one sight.  So I have to choose, shoot with left eye closed, or shoot left handed.  I've chosen to shoot with left eye closed.

 

I'm not a duelist, but I have observed many duelists who 'cant' that left revolver, I assume to get it in line with their dominant eye.  I'm wondering if Sitting Bull is having a problem with something related to that.  The few times I have shot duelist I shot right handed, left eye closed, then left handed, right eye closed. That messes up my depth perception a bit, but it's better than seeing two sights and having to choose which one is right. 

 

The cant you describe can be a number of things.  For me, it's the natural position of my wrists and arms, they just happen to rotate inward about 25 degrees when held out in front.  There's no need to have the gun vertical if it's not comfortable or adding muscular stress. 


Doc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Do you aim left eye left pistol, right eye right pistol and do you have more trouble picking up the sights when using a specific hand?

 

I’m right handed but left eye dominant. I have to close my left eye and sight with my right for everything. If I don’t my left eye tries to take over when I’m shooting the long guns. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used a piece of transparent scotch tape inside of my left lens in my shooting glasses.  Position the tape so when you close your right eye, the gun disappears.  Shooting style will dictate where on the lens the tape will work best.  You retain the benefits of having both eyes open but take the "wrong"eye out play.    Simple and cheap to experiment with.  Works for some.       GW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I'm not a duelist, but I have observed many duelists who 'cant' that left revolver, I assume to get it in line with their dominant eye.

Exactly. Just bring the gun up to the dominant eye. Don't lean your head (breaks the stable shooting platform). Don't force the non-dominant eye to take over. With two handed shooting, that clearly means going "half gangsta" is the best option for most shooters. So, removing the second hand (primary shooting hand in the role of support hand) still leaves the firearm canted over to the dominant eye.

 

Having the gun vertical in this situation requires bending the wrist out of natural alignment with the dominant eye and the firearm.

 

Canting is fine, it is in line with the the basic principal, repeated: Bring the gun (sights) up to the dominant eye.

 

This is also true if a shooter is cross eye  dominant (philosophically the same as shooting off-hand). A right-handed shooter who is left-eye dominant may find better results canting the firearm to the dominant eye. A right-handed right-eyed shooter shooting off-hand should still use the dominant eye by canting the gun and not tilt the head or use the "wrong" eye.

 

And yes, it is better to shoot with both eyes open for a number of reasons, something I have been struggling with for several years after a lifetime has gone by since my dad taught me to close one eye.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like to shoot knockdowns when shooting one shot drills.  They are smaller and you can easily tell when you hit them.  We have an excellent bank of targets to do this with or shotgun knockdown targets work great too.

 

Possum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The front sight is smaller and much closer.  So look at that first, as soon as it comes into view.  Once you have seen the first target (before the beep), you know where it is so you don’t need to focus your eyes on it, either look at the gun or just relax and look at the ground in front of you without focusing on anything.  What you don’t want to do is have your eyes have to change focus from far vision to close vision.

 

After you practice the eyes-closed drill mentioned previously, you should be right on target with your eyes open.  You should be able to get off the first shot without changing your focus to distant vision.

 

And build the confidence that your first shot is going to hit, without pondering it a few seconds first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.