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Staging Targets


Sarge

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Does a competitor have the right to ask that a target be staged in a certain position?  I'm thinking specifically of a moving target such as a Texas Star, where the position of the petals at the start have a specific bearing on the movement of the target after the target is engaged.  I seen setup where one competitor gets the top petal carefully placed at the 12 o'clock position and the next competitor gets the top two targets placed at the 11 and 2 o'clock positions.  Didn't see much in the shooter's manual other than safe target distances and types of targets.

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Never seen that done or heard of someone asking before this post. Seems to me if you are arranging the plates specifically for each shooter you are letting them shoot a different stage than everyone else. 
JMO

Regards

 

:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

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Not that I’m aware of.  The stars that I have shot usually have a spray paint spot that runs down vertically to show the balance point of the star to aid the staging.  This should have everyone shoot the same stage.

 

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The match director or stage writer determines target position- not the competitors. 

 

The way I set it up a texas star or shotgun windmill is the same for each and every shooter, each and every time.

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Just now, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

Could you move that pistol target a couple yards closer for me?

 

Only if you'll move it a couple yards further out for me. :P

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Just now, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

The same could be said for SG knockdown targets. I have been known to toss the rope out to ensure the reset arm is down on a SG target that is reset with a rope/arm a time or two.

Gamer :P

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1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Gamer :P

Just trying to give the rope some slack.

 

Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less.

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Just now, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Just trying to give the rope some slack.

 

Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less.

 

I know, I've done the same. I was just yankin' yer chain.

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1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

I know, I've done the same. I was just yankin' yer chain.

We don't see too many chains out here. Mostly rope. ^_^

 

But joking aside, I know of folks who do have a problem with a shooter doing that.

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2 hours ago, Fence Cutter said:

The match director or stage writer determines target position- not the competitors. 

 

The way I set it up a texas star or shotgun windmill is the same for each and every shooter, each and every time.

Yep.  Agreed.  Have seen it happen a couple of times.  Usually attribute it too in-experienced shooters re-setting the Texas Star.  

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3 hours ago, Sarge said:

Does a competitor have the right to ask that a target be staged in a certain position?  I'm thinking specifically of a moving target such as a Texas Star, where the position of the petals at the start have a specific bearing on the movement of the target after the target is engaged.  I seen setup where one competitor gets the top petal carefully placed at the 12 o'clock position and the next competitor gets the top two targets placed at the 11 and 2 o'clock positions.  Didn't see much in the shooter's manual other than safe target distances and types of targets.

 

Any request to do so would result in the Texas Star to be put in spin.

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23 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

Any request to do so would result in the Texas Star to be put in spin.

Haven't seen that yet, but have seen them positioned differently for different shooters.  

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2 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Just trying to give the rope some slack.

 

Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less.

 

If ya stuff a little more FFg powder and shot in your loads and manage to whack that knockdown good and square, that spotter might find himself sitting directly on his @$$ when the rope gets a good "tug" out from under him.  Sound like something Tyrel might try....:lol:

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6 hours ago, Sarge said:

Does a competitor have the right to ask that a target be staged in a certain position?  I'm thinking specifically of a moving target such as a Texas Star, where the position of the petals at the start have a specific bearing on the movement of the target after the target is engaged.  I seen setup where one competitor gets the top petal carefully placed at the 12 o'clock position and the next competitor gets the top two targets placed at the 11 and 2 o'clock positions.  Didn't see much in the shooter's manual other than safe target distances and types of targets.

 

Have never seen it in any gun game I've ever played. 

If I had, the MD in no uncertain terms would know why I would never return. 

OLG 

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17 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Just trying to give the rope some slack.

 

Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less.

 

HUMMM!

BUHAHAHAAHH!

Look Out RED Storm !!!

 

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19 hours ago, Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 said:

As a match director and posse marshal my reaction is:  "play the hand as dealt!"

While I would shoot it as is, I think this is a crappy answer and attitude.  Every effort should be made to keep staged targets equal for all shooters.  Period.  Unless, of course, it is done as a friendly "joke" to a shooter who enjoys that sort of thing.

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21 hours ago, Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 said:

As a match director and posse marshal my reaction is:  "play the hand as dealt!"

I'm new, so maybe you are right...

 

But having practiced Texas Stars a little bit, I have already learned different strategies apply if for instance it is balanced with one centered at the top versus one centered at the bottom.

 

I'm not good enough to have it make a difference if I am up against a champion, but I do think everyone should be dealt the same hand.

 

But for you, I might see taking @Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966's suggestion and giving it a spin.

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It is the Timer Operator's responsibility to ensure all targets are reset before calling up the next shooter.
REF: SHB, RO1, RO2.

That implies "reset PROPERLY".


IMO, if a shooter notices that a target is not reset the same as it was for all previous shooters on a stage, it would be reasonable to request that it be fixed.
That is not the same as asking that it be set differently than for everyone else for any possible competitive advantage.

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On 5/30/2020 at 3:03 PM, Matthew Duncan said:

 

Any request to do so would result in the Texas Star to be put in spin.

As usual, I'm confused.  How can one set a T-star anywhere except where it naturally balances? Doesn't it just rotate right back into its balance point?  Surely folks don't swap petals back and forth to custom balance it--or do they? 

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7 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

As usual, I'm confused.  How can one set a T-star anywhere except where it naturally balances? Doesn't it just rotate right back into its balance point?  Surely folks don't swap petals back and forth to custom balance it--or do they? 

The one's I've shot aren't perfectly balanced and can sometimes be set in more than one position.  Ideally you want one 'petal' as close to straight up as possible, or at least I do, cause that's the one I'm going to shoot first.

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7 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

As usual, I'm confused.  How can one set a T-star anywhere except where it naturally balances? Doesn't it just rotate right back into its balance point?  Surely folks don't swap petals back and forth to custom balance it--or do they? 

The petals don’t go back onto the same arms each time so getting it to naturally balance at the same point each time can be problematic. The one down at Dulzura is very random where it balances.

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IF you have a "Star" type target that is defective in that it doesn't balance properly every time it is easy to make a mark on the back of each arm (1-5) and mark the plates the same at the base where they don't get hit and that way the target is the same for every shooter. There are a lot of people making star type targets and I suppose the QC on some is not quite as good as it needs to be.

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1 hour ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said:

IF you have a "Star" type target that is defective in that it doesn't balance properly every time it is easy to make a mark on the back of each arm (1-5) and mark the plates the same at the base where they don't get hit and that way the target is the same for every shooter. There are a lot of people making star type targets and I suppose the QC on some is not quite as good as it needs to be.

That would probably work for most T-star targets that I've seen, but my experience in matches is that even with an efficient two person crew servicing the T-star, the posse does a lot of waiting for reset.  In big matches, that can be a consequential delay affecting stage-to-stage progress.  Any task or complexity added to the reset process is going to add to the time required. 

 

There are likely to be at least small differences between what shooters get dealt on most moving targets.   To some extent it is just a part of the game.  But where there are doable remedies, and they don't require an inordinate amount of posse time, I think most of us implement them.  Nobody in our sport would opt to operate a match unfairly, at least I would hope not.  And if a shooter points out a legitimately unfair target differential, I don't think any of us  would want to ignore it.  It's one reason why we have Match Directors.  

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2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

That would probably work for most T-star targets that I've seen, but my experience in matches is that even with an efficient two person crew servicing the T-star, the posse does a lot of waiting for reset.  In big matches, that can be a consequential delay affecting stage-to-stage progress.  Any task or complexity added to the reset process is going to add to the time required. 

 

There are likely to be at least small differences between what shooters get dealt on most moving targets.   To some extent it is just a part of the game.  But where there are doable remedies, and they don't require an inordinate amount of posse time, I think most of us implement them.  Nobody in our sport would opt to operate a match unfairly, at least I would hope not.  And if a shooter points out a legitimately unfair target differential, I don't think any of us  would want to ignore it.  It's one reason why we have Match Directors.  

Down at Dulzura the last time they had a monthly that I attended with the T star in play it took nearly 90 minutes to shoot the first T star stage!! I timed a couple of resets of the T star and they took nearly 4 minutes to reset the T star. One resetter would stand there and look at it until it stopped moving. It was a six stage match and we were just finishing up stage 4 at 1:00 with two more stages to go and one of them another T star stage. I left, had a family function I had to make, another shooter that was there said they didn’t finish until 4:00. I’m glad they post the stages before hand now because I’ll shoot up at Cajon when the T star is in play. I’d rather shoot a match than watch somebody reset targets.

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I'd like my pistol targets a little bigger please. Actually a lot bigger. 

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