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Two-Bit Charlie

38 Loads

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I'm looking for a 38 special load for my grandsons. I'm using a 105 gr truncated bullet and would like to use Tiregroup. I tried 3.0 grains, but it shoots way low. It's ok in the Marlin carbine, but way too low in the Colt conversion. If not Titegroup, I would consider any other powder. Thanks for any help you can give me.

 

Two-Bit Charlie

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Are these new pistols?

 

If so, it was common to have the front sight too high, thus lowering the point of aim.  Then it was an easy fix to raise it up.

 

First, try some 158 grain loads to see where they hit, if they are also low, you know the front sight is too high.

 

The load you used should be pretty good.  You could try 3.2 just to see where it shoots.

 

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3.5-4.0 of Unique. 

Use firm roll crimp.

Don't mess with the handgun sights till you find the load you want.

OLG 

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What Marauder said ^^^^^^^^

 

Pistols are manufactured to shoot reasonably close to POI with the heaviest commonly used bullets for that caliber so that you can modify the front sight for lighter bullet /powder load combinations.

 

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One thing I do not see mentioned.

Is the shooter anticipating the recoil and pushing the gun forward during the trigger pull?

 

Also the lighter the bullet the lower it will hit.

The less recoil the less the barrel rises before the bullet leaves the barrel.

Try different weight bullets before adjusting the front site.

The differents in recoil from 105g to 125g is not enough to notice.

 

Another note on downloading for younger shooters.

They can handle far more than you thnk they can.

Try letting them shoot you standard loads and see how that goes.

 

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57 minutes ago, Two-Bit Charlie said:

I'm looking for a 38 special load for my grandsons. I'm using a 105 gr truncated bullet and would like to use Tiregroup. I tried 3.0 grains, but it shoots way low. It's ok in the Marlin carbine, but way too low in the Colt conversion. If not Titegroup, I would consider any other powder. Thanks for any help you can give me.

 

Two-Bit Charlie

 

If your powder drop method is good, I love Titegroup. 

 

I'm using 3.0gr Titegroup over 125 TC (Hi-tek coated) and it seems spot on for me. 

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I mostly agree with Marauder and OLG.

 

I load the following:

3.1 grains TiteGroup with a 125 grain, RNFP (round nose, flat point) lead bullet in .38 Special.


There is little or no recoil in my US Firearms “Colt” revolvers, and no recoil in my Uberti 1873 clone rifle.

A LOT of kids shoot this exact same load
 

So, maybe try that.  Just bump up the TiteGroup a pinch and try a heavier slug.  I doubt you’ll experience any real increase in recoil.

 

And, don’t go messing with the sights on your guns.

”You can take metal off, but you can’t put it back.”
 

Cat Brules

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Yup, just like cutting a string. 

 

If it's too short, you can always cut it some more :D

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2 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

Yup, just like cutting a string. 

 

If it's too short, you can always cut it some more :D

 

If it is just a tad short, people will think you goofed.  If it is a whole lot short, they will think you know what you are doing and have something up your sleeve. :)

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6 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

3.5-4.0 of Unique. 

Use firm roll crimp.

Don't mess with the handgun sights till you find the load you want.

OLG 

No need to physically modify the front sight to test it.  Just take a little more sight when you test fire.  If that consistently corrects the low trajectory with your chosen load(s), then get out your file.  I suggest doing it at the range and working slowly, a very little at a time, with testing.  

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I love Tite-Group, 3.6 grains under a 125 grain bullet for both revolvers and rifles

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I found the bullet and powder load I was gonna use.

When sighting my pistols in.. (Yep years ago)

I happened to file one down way too far..:wacko:

I bought a set of Slick's brass front pistol sight covers to raise it back up..

 

Rance;)

Thinkin' solved my problem of taking off too much..:huh:

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The wife shoots 38's with 2.8 gr. of Clays under 125 TC bullet and the recoil is negligible. Way back when I tried Titegroup in my 45's and found it to be a bit snappier than Clays. I use Clays in everything now. 38's, 45's & SG. So far haven't had any cold weather issues with the Clays or Clay-Dot in the same powder weights.

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I started out with Titegroup, 3.2gr in .38 105, 125, and 158 .357. Titegroup has a snappy recoil and a very loud report. I tried Clay's, good all round powder, light recoil. I switched to Red Dot for all my smokeless loads, 3.3gr for .38s works great. Good Luck:)

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28 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

The wife shoots 38's with 2.8 gr. of Clays under 125 TC bullet and the recoil is negligible. Way back when I tried Titegroup in my 45's and found it to be a bit snappier than Clays. I use Clays in everything now. 38's, 45's & SG. So far haven't had any cold weather issues with the Clays or Clay-Dot in the same powder weights.

 

28 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

The wife shoots 38's with 2.8 gr. of Clays under 125 TC bullet and the recoil is negligible. Way back when I tried Titegroup in my 45's and found it to be a bit snappier than Clays. I use Clays in everything now. 38's, 45's & SG. So far haven't had any cold weather issues with the Clays or Clay-Dot in the same powder weights.

 

9 minutes ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said:

I started out with Titegroup, 3.2gr in .38 105, 125, and 158 .357. Titegroup has a snappy recoil and a very loud report. I tried Clay's, good all round powder, light recoil. I switched to Red Dot for all my smokeless loads, 3.3gr for .38s works great. Good Luck:)

Tite Group is a little snappier which is why I like it. I like a little recoil!

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Thank you all for the help. Looks like I should be looking at the 125 gr bullets instead of the 105's. Don't worry guys, I won't be messing with the front sights. The pistols are Uberti Richardson Mason conversions, with only a bead front sight. Not much to file down. Anyone shoot more than 3.2 gr of Titegroup in the 105's. Hodgen's don't even show this powder.

 

Two-Bit Charlie

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16 minutes ago, Two-Bit Charlie said:

Thank you all for the help. Looks like I should be looking at the 125 gr bullets instead of the 105's. Don't worry guys, I won't be messing with the front sights. The pistols are Uberti Richardson Mason conversions, with only a bead front sight. Not much to file down. Anyone shoot more than 3.2 gr of Titegroup in the 105's. Hodgen's don't even show this powder.

 

Two-Bit Charlie

 

If you're worried about safety you should be more than fine. The book has my max charge of Titegroup at 4.6gr for 125's in .38spl rated guns. EVERY single one of my guns is rated to .357mag...and I doubt I'll ever own anything only rated for .38, as IMO, theres no use for it (for me). 

 

Obviously work up to any charge near the max, but 3.2gr of Titegroup will be fine using 105's. If you have a chrono I'd try and hit the 650fps mark out of a pistol. That seems to be my sweet spot. Out of my Rifle, they clock in around 900fps

 

FYI, Hodgdon's site says the starting load with Titegroup and 110gr bullet is 4.3gr. So you're definitely below any sort of max charge for 105's

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It costs a bit more but unless you are loading many thousands of rounds it won't make much difference.  VV 320 is wonderful in light loads for 38Special. 

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Been using this load for years in my Ruger NMVs and Marlin 94 cowboy comps...

140 gr TCFP, plain lead or Hi-Tek coated (Chey-Cast bullets)

3.0 gr Hodgden Clays

Fed and Win SPP

Mostly Starline brass, but lots of Fed, Win, Rem, and others too.

My Ruger SP101 and S & W 67 like it too.

 

JC

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increase your bullet weights 

 

125 bullets with 3.5grn of titegroup is what i like out of my RMConversion Ubertis.
 

I also use thesame charge weight with 158 bullets.

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thanks for the thread , ive also been setting up 38s and appreciate the info this has generated , im also of the red dot/clays club , but ive no real allegiance either so always open to new ideas 

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3.0 grains of Green Dot with a 125 gr bullet will put you around 740fps.

Just enough push to let you know it left the barrel.

Plus Green Dot works for shotgun loads too.

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Many shooters are raising there front sight to compensate for the lower pt of aim.  Try placing the front sight with 1/2 above the rear sight.  Place the tip of the front sight in the bottom 1/3 of the height of the target.  You should be hitting close to the center.  See if this helps.  Ray Heartless and Slick McClade sell wrap around front sights to aid in acquiring  the front sight. Hope this helps.  

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  • 2.7-2.8 grains of clays behind a 105 truncated works for me.

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231 is a really good choice for 38 Special as well.   I have gotten good results with 4gr under a 125 bullet.   The recommended starting load is 3.8 but I have gotten better groups from my rifle using 4...

 

 

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I've been using 2.6 grains of TiteGroup with both 125's & 105's for several years. I've experimented with each in the rifle & the pistols, & really can't tell any difference. I'll probably settle on just using 125's (coated) for all. The chronograph says they're within legal ranges, not too hot, & they run great. I use 3.6 grns & 158 gr bullets for hot loads, & they perform well also.

 

Good luck!

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