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John Barleycorn, SASS #76982

The new guidelines from SASS HQ are out

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Posted (edited)

Ouch I imagine that Sass is doing this to cover their butts. I know I know these are excellent guide lines, but

I can't see clubs following these suggestions.

What's the penalty for an accidental HUGS.

Edited by Hells Comin
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Posted (edited)

 

Text from the SASS email earlier. 

 

SASS® Affiliated Club Bulletin
Best Practices for Conducting Matches in a COVID-19 Environment May 20, 2020
  2020 has brought a whole new set of challenges across the globe and as restrictions for gatherings have begun to
be eased in many parts of the world, many clubs have begun readying themselves to begin holding matches again. SASS’ number one priority has always been the safety of our members. As such, we have composed the below “Best Practices for Safety” guideline. Please understand this is only an outline meant to provide guidance. Above and beyond (or below) what is listed, all local and state mandates and restrictions pertaining to the COVID-19 Pandemic specific to your area take priority and must always be followed.
Thank you for your continued support and dedication as we move forward with a vision of remaining the world’s greatest- and safest- shooting sport.
Administration & Liability
Clubs should consult legal counsel regarding an amendment to their general liability waiver to include a release from liability due to exposure to any infectious disease, including COVID-19.
- Sample: An inherent risk of exposure to COVID-19 and other infectious disease exists in any public place where people are present. COVID-19 is a contagious disease that can lead to severe illness and death. By signing this waiver, the individual understands and assumes all risks related to exposure to any infectious disease, including COVID-19.
General Safety
• Do not attend the event/match if any symptoms of COVID-19 exist, if you are feeling unwell in any way, have been exposed yourself, or have had contact with anyone exposed to COVID-19.
• If you are 65 years or older and have serious medical conditions, please consider the increased
risk prior to participation.
• Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) including masks, gloves, hand sanitizer, should be a priority and the responsibility of the individual. Adhere to all local regulations regarding masks. Do not dispose of PPEitemsontherange.AllPPEshouldbetakenwith the attendee to be disposed of at home.
• Drinking water stations that include cups and water jugs should be eliminated. All competitors should bring their own water and snacks. If the host club/range is providing water, offer individual bottled water.
• Whenever possible, the host club/range should have handwashing stations/supplies readily available.Glovesarenosubstituteforhandwashing! • Maintain 6’ distancing at all times.
• SASS members are friendly! In most cases, our SASS friends are some we have not seen in a while. Avoid the instinct to engage in hugs and handshakes and embraces. Introduce a new (fun) way to engage each other instead. (tap elbows, feet, fist bumps, etc.)
• Avoid indoor activities. Whenever possible, keep folks outside in the fresh air. Move any previously indoor interactions to an outdoor location.
• Thoroughly clean and disinfect all match supplies and registration/gathering areas prior to and after all activities.
Registration/Safety Briefings/Awards
• Set up registration and one-on-one interactions outdoors whenever possible.
• Providehandsanitizerforuseaftereachinteraction. • Safety briefings should now include all COVID-19 restrictions, requirements, and guidance to all attendees.
Single Action Shooting Society®
215 Cowboy Way, Edgewood, NM 87015 Phone: 505.843.1320 / Fax: 877.770.8687 www.sassnet.com
                                 1
 
 SASS® Affiliated Club Bulletin ~ May 20, 2020 Best Practices for Conducting Matches in a COVID-19 Environment (continued)
 • Do not hand off any awards or certificates, including clean match pins to any contestant. Prepare awards prior to the engagement by disinfecting them individually. Awards and pins should be individually bagged whenever possible. Place awards on a table or surface and ask that the individual pick it up.
Posse Guidelines
• Posse Marshals/Posse Leaders should be selected and educated in advance to be prepared for the environment.
• Depending on your local restrictions, limit posse size in accordance. (5 people/10 people, etc.)
• Posse members must maintain 6’ distancing at all times.
• Handling of firearms: avoid handling/touching another person’s firearms or supplies whenever possible. In the event of a squib or firearm malfunction, modifications in behavior should be made to keep the firearm in the owner’s hands only. If a match official needs to handle a competitor’s firearm in an assist, all necessary precautions must be taken. (Gloves, handwashing, sanitizer, etc.)
• Do not utilize designated spotting sticks or spotting flags for spotters that are handed off. Use a disposable marker of some kind for spotters to be identified.
• Scorekeeping, when possible, should be handled by as few people as needed. Fresh gloves are recommended for each hand off scorekeeping equipment. If using electronic scoring tablets, place the tablet in a bag to avoid contamination. Designate pens for paper scorekeeping and eliminate any requirement for the shooter to initial his score at each stage to avoid passing off pens and paper as much as possible. Eliminate individual shooter score cards being completed by the scorekeeper. Shooters should maintain their own scorecards if desired.
• If targets need to be reset, designate as few posse members as possible. Gloves are recommended for each rotation of tasks that require handling any object by any posse member.
Time to Shoot!
• Maintain 6’ distance at all times.
• The competitor may remove mask when shooting. • No more than 5 people on the firing line. (Shooter, TO, 3 Spotters)
• No more than 2 people at the loading/unloading tables- one on each end.
• The TO should wear gloves when handling the timer and the timer should be prepared by being freshly wrapped (plastic wrap or plastic bag) or disinfected between hand-offs to/from alternating TOs. Personal timers are recommended if possible to avoid the handing off situation altogether.
• Designated Brass pickers should use tools to retrieve brass and generally avoid handling another shooters brass. Gloves worn by brass pickers is recommended.
SASS RO Training Courses
All current COVID-19 restrictions for NM and safe practices must always be followed.
• Limit class size in accordance with your local gathering numbers.
• Maintain 6’ distance at all times.
• Observe all guidelines for range time (ROII) as indicated in this document.
Single Action Shooting Society®
215 Cowboy Way, Edgewood, NM 87015 Phone: 505.843.1320 / Fax: 877.770.8687 www.sassnet.com
                                2
 

 

Edited by Tyrel Cody

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Posted (edited)

Hells Comin...  

Not quite sure that SASS is providing these details to "...cover their butts." These are good useful "ideas" for clubs to do we can to manage safe matches. I know of several clubs that are discussing such issues. We (PRVC) are having our first back-to-shooting event this Saturday and are implementing a lot of these and other ideas. We want to do what we can to keep our shooters and friends healthy, and we've had zero thought to "covering our butts."

RR

Edited by Roger Rapid
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53 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

• Designated Brass pickers should use tools to retrieve brass and generally avoid handling another shooters brass. Gloves worn by brass pickers is recommended.

Consider adding something along the lines of:

 

Competitors should treat brass retrieved by pickers as if it is contaminated.

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Just now, John Kloehr said:

Consider adding something along the lines of:

 

Competitors should treat brass retrieved by pickers as if it is contaminated.

 

Not my text, direct copy from the S.A.S.S. guidelines that just went out.

 

 

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Wow!! Butt bumps are back in now!!  :rolleyes: (COVID-19 authorized!!) ... 

Of course ... w/ every gun cart pulled up to the firing line it's academic. 

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1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Not my text, direct copy from the S.A.S.S. guidelines that just went out.

Understood, I quoted on the assumption both TGs and club staff would see any  suggestions.

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One of the points we've been discussing is whether fired brass could host live bacteria? One would think that the extreme heat would kill any bacteria on it. Do we have any med techs or pathologists out there who could comment on this?

RR

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Roger Rapid said:

One of the points we've been discussing is whether fired brass could host live bacteria? One would think that the extreme heat would kill any bacteria on it. Do we have any med techs or pathologists out there who could comment on this?

RR

@197 degrees F (near boiling), this virus takes 15 minutes to die. The brass will not get hot enough for a long enough time to affect the virus.

 

Not peer-reviewed, but here is the citation:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.11.036855v1

Edited by John Kloehr
Add citation

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I don't know about anyone else but I'll be glad when we're past this.  

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Sorry Warden ... But what makes you believe we will ever be "past" this.  Just as influenza has never "died" neither will covid.

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Posted (edited)

.

Edited by Captain Clark
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9 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Sorry Warden ... But what makes you believe we will ever be "past" this.  Just as influenza has never "died" neither will covid.

 

The virus in one form or another is a fact of nature and will be with us until some cataclysmic event destroy earth .  This pandemic is something we (they) have created.  

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

Ouch I imagine that Sass is doing this to cover their butts. I know I know these are excellent guide lines, but

I can't see clubs following these suggestions.

What's the penalty for an accidental HUGE?

 

 

If you meant "hugs", I suppose the penalty could range from a no-call up to and including the death penalty for you or someone you care about.

 

But, I'm not a doctor or a politician...

 

Edit:  Thanks for the ha ha...but this post was not intended as a joke.  

Edited by Jackalope
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Posted (edited)

We just finished our first COVID match.  We had most of these guidelines covered.  However, it was somewhat exhausting to implement them.  We have a very small crew that sets up, executes, and tears down every match.  I researched, planned, shopped, typed, .... in preparation for the match.  I wanted to be sure we put forth the proper message about the virus and the posse's commitment to shooter safety and state/county requirements.  The only thing we did not do was have waivers signed.  However, as the sole person doing administrative tasks, I see this as the final weight to sink my ship.  I was drowning in a sea of shooters with itchy trigger fingers, happy to see their friends, and quite chatty at times.  I had to do registration, write up score cards, collect money for raffles, registration, and my own vending.  Of course, there were lots of questions to answer as well.  I had double the work to get timers, clipboards, pens, and score cards ready.  We used two scorekeepers on each posse and with the small posses, it was something of a strategic task to get them divided and in order so that things ran efficiently. 
After the first stage, while still recognizing the recommendation for social distancing the shooters pretty much fell right into their usual match routine.  The best recommendation for hosting the match is the use of hand sanitizer and wipes.  We had them placed at every unloading table and in a few other key locations for convenience.  Don't underestimate the time it takes to carry out all these seemingly simple measures.  Enlist an extra person or two if you can.  Set up and tear down (not just targets) means putting extra things out and them putting them all away again.  Since this month has 5 Sundays, we get to try it all over again next week.  We might change things up a little for ease of operation having seen that our shooters acted quite responsibly throughout the entire match.  Afterall, we have all been under the "shelter-in-place", use sanitizer, practice social distancing, yada, yada, yada, rule for 10 weeks now.

Edited by Black Hills Barb
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1 hour ago, Roger Rapid said:

One of the points we've been discussing is whether fired brass could host live bacteria? One would think that the extreme heat would kill any bacteria on it. Do we have any med techs or pathologists out there who could comment on this?

RR

 

I don't know the answer to your question, but its my understanding that Bacteria and a Virus are 2 separate animals.

Fired brass may very well kill any and all bacteria...... but a Virus might actually thrive in the same conditions.

 

My post reflects only those comments I have heard during all these C19 news briefings and I have NO knowledge of how

Germs, Bacteria or Viruses live or die.

 

..........Widder

 

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Widder - thanks for clarification. I used "bacteria" wrongly and should have said "virus." And the thought did come to mind when reading John Kloehr's response whether the heat could actually have the opposite affect, and stimulate growth of the virus?

 

Hmmm

...RR

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I did not even notice "bacteria" and answered specifically for the virus Sars-Cov-2.

 

Cold seems to help it, from refrigerators to deep freezers. At extremely cold temperatures, it will die but those temperature do not occur naturally even in Antarctica.

 

The temperature I cited above (197F) is to kill at a factor of six orders of magnitude (1 in a million particles survive). 15 minutes at about 132 F (from a different study) kills at a rate of 4 orders of magnitude (1 in 10,000 survive).

 

This particular coronavirus is apparently a bit tougher than the four common ones, but the 10th rifle cartridge fired will still not be hot enough for a long enough time to have much effect. Not that it is a huge risk, but since the picker is wearing gloves to protect themselves, I observed that the last shooter's brass picked up has been picked up by gloves which have touched every other shooter's brass.

 

For whatever risk there is, just don't touch your eyes or nose after handling anything which may be contaminated. Recovered brass can go directly into the shooter's bag. Even if contaminated, it will be safe to handle in a few days.

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We (Thunder River) have shot two matches now under our guidelines.  Many of them match the guidance from SASS.

 

Getting about 2/3 of what we had beforee

 

12 max posses

 

everyone spread out

 

masks are not required but some wear them

 

for far worst problem is heat/humidity of good ol' Texas Gulf Coast weather.  Gone to  summer dress to help with this

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Personally, as a guide for exposure & deaths attending SASS matches- I would use the severity on a State by State basis... 

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-updates-united-states.html

And buy and use a Digital Infrared Forehead Thermometer Before the Match ..  https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Infrared-Forehead-Thermometer-Children/dp/B085RVD585/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=body+temperature&qid=1590438857&sr=8-14

Normal adult body temperature  ...

*  The normal body temperature for an adult is around 98.6°F (37°C), but every person’s baseline body temperature is slightly different, and may consistently be a little higher or lower.

*

In adults, the following temperatures suggest that someone has a fever:

  • at least 100.4°F (38°C) is a fever
  • above 103.1°F (39.5°C) is a high fever
  • above 105.8°F (41°C) is a very high fever
  • Any SASS member with a fever should leave the range IMMEDIATELY and contact their Board of Heath
  • And every shooter at the match wear latex gloves
Edited by John Boy

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Where are these new SASS covid-19 guidelines? Maybe someone could post a link so we could see what is being discussed.

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3 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Where are these new SASS covid-19 guidelines? Maybe someone could post a link so we could see what is being discussed.

the guidelines

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I wonder, in the history of jurisprudence, has the judge and jury been all set, plaintiff has presented his case, made a sound reason for suing. Then defense lawyer steps up, pulls out a paper from his briefcase and says  “judge, I have a release, signed by the plaintiff” judge says “oh, a release....case dismissed” 

 

releases are a waste of paper. There are some reasonable precautions that can be taken. But releases, gloves, telling folks don’t touch your face is pretty worthless. Spraying timers, other common surfaces might be of minor benefit. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Thank you. Nothing new that they haven’t been doing up at Cajon. The match yesterday went very well and smaller posses made it move a bit faster. Pretty sure that as things open up again procedures will change with some being more onerous some less onerous. One spotter has been about the only difference that I’ve noticed and I probably got a clean match because of it yesterday:D,  there’s a good reason for 3 spotters. Looks like The Cowboys up at Norco may have a match in June and I’m pretty sure some lessons learned up at Cajon will come into play at Norco. Hopefully some other clubs around SoCal will be opening up soon and CAS competitors will be back in the saddle.

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Like it or not, the horse is out of the barn.  You can do your own search but a massive number of people are out this weekend hitting any recreational spot available.  And they are not a bit concerned about social distance orders.  Pictures of the Osage Beach at Lake of the Ozarks show thousands of people packed tightly in one small area.  And it's only going to escalate through the summer. 

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Remember 1969?

 

They had a small gathering called Woodstock?

 

There was an influenza "epidemic" (Hong Cong Flu) going on that killed 100,000 in the US and over 1,000,000 world wide. 

We did not shutdown the nation and survived rather well.

 

That was without government guidelines requiring questionable reporting in death certificates to inflate the virus impact. 

(Multiple Doctors around the nation have reported on the deceptive guidelines.)

 

So we have never seen anything like this before.  (Where the healthy were quarantined instead of the ill.)

 

The over-restrictive requirements that were meant to be helpful were not sustainable. 

People are now essentially rebelling. 

So we were forced from one extreme to another.

 

A good friend in very poor heath in her late 70's got it and we doubted she could survive.  She's fine now and being scheduled for her hip replacement. 

So this virus is very unpredictable and shows to be survivable over 99% of the time.  As a sickly old guy, I'm still careful, but realize we just need to use common sense as we did with other virus's. 

 

The virus is serious, but this has been well described as a panicdemic.

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Posted (edited)

Had a great shoot yesterday at Singing Hills Ranch Largent WV. 

15 shooters, used 2 timers, 2 score keepers, shot just 5 stages instead of 6, no lunch like we normally do halfway through. Brass pickup with tools, 2 people at loading, one at unloading. It was a cool calm cloudy day in the mountains. I even think 2 of the stages were good enough for Appalachian Showdown September 25-27. We are back in business. Taylors open house is the same weekend, stop by there on the way in Friday and shoot your new toy Saturday. 

http://www.wvcass.org/showdown/

 

Edited by Trooper Ozzy

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Publishing guidelines is a catch-22, it seems to me.  If folks get sick attending a match that is scrupulously following guidelines then it seems to me a sharp lawyer could make a case for negligence.

 

 In my ignorant non-legal opinion, we just need to take responsibility for ourselves.  If I happen to be at a match that permits unsafe gun handling, I will vote with my feet and leave.  Similarly, if I am at a match where I worry about getting infected (corona, measles, ticks, cooties, whatever) I will leave.

 

 I guarantee that there will be matches that do not follow these “guidelines”.  I’m responsible for my health, not SASS, not the Governor, not the President...just me.

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Posted (edited)

J-Bar... Not quite sure I agree with the "catch-22" idea. If a club makes a best effort to exercise diligence as it relates to gun safety, or health safety - as in the case of the COVID-19 issue - and someone does get sick, a lawyer "could make a case for negligence..." but I think it would be a very tough case to win. I agree with you that we are responsible for our own health and safety, but others should be considerate and somewhat responsible for OUR health and safety, too. One of the reasons folks should wear masks - aside from protecting themselves - is to protect you and me from something they have (that, in fact, they might not even know they have). I was setting targets at our range last week and I was the only one of four folks wearing a mask. I was a little upset that the other cowpokes were not considering my best interest - as I was considering theirs. 

 

You and I are also responsible for our physical safety at a range, but if another shooter is careless, and one of us gets hurt, then we would certainly question why they were not following the commonly-held gun safety rules.

 

Yes, there will be matches that do not follow the guidelines, and some that follow them to the letter. And, for my well-being, I'd rather attend the match where there is some attention to health safety; at the end of he day, I'd much rather be on this side of the grass.

 

RR

Edited by Roger Rapid
typo
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3 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Publishing guidelines is a catch-22, it seems to me.  If folks get sick attending a match that is scrupulously following guidelines then it seems to me a sharp lawyer could make a case for negligence.

...

 

That might be difficult to prove without diligent "contact tracing", wouldn't it?
<_<

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if your telling me we are not going back to normal im telling you that life is over , XXX are we really buying into this load of crap ? if biden gets elected will it by majic go away ??? this is too much for even the over educated to swallow - i get the ignorant , but really ??????  

 

 

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7 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

That might be difficult to prove without diligent "contact tracing", wouldn't it?
<_<

 

I’m thinking that all of the legalese in the world won’t prevent some over aggressive lawyer from a lawsuit and given the fact that a match hosting some number of shooters and spectators greater than two would be vulnerable regardless of these or ANY guidelines!!

 

My personal feeling is that this “lockdown/quarantine” is a huge mistake and might well be the greatest fraud ever committed on the population!!

 

 I sincerely hope that not one more person falls ill from this virus, but it’s time to come out of hiding and stop living in fear!!

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Please, lets keep politics out of this thread.

 

Whether any measure is insufficient or excessive, the goal is to go shoot again.

 

Whether you believe we are opening too soon or should never have shut down at all, this thread is about how we are going to get shooting again.

 

I want to go shoot again.

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