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Cyrus Cassidy #45437

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Posted (edited)

Do you recall a recent thread where we discussed whether or  not we would loan a gun to someone?

 

I didn't loan a gun, but I loaned a paint sprayer, and it bit me in the arse.  My old man made a living with his tools, so he was very possessive of them.  He had a sign over his tool box that said, "Get your own tools."  I don't make my living with my tools, but, being a country boy, I need them for the homestead.  I buy the good ones -- NO CHEAP TOOLS for me -- and I take care of them.    I always tell my kids, "I buy good tools.  And I'm only going to buy them once."   In fact, there are a few tools in my garage that came from my grandfather!  My tools will be passed down to my boys.

 

So a guy at my church has a wife and three little ones.  They aren't doing too hot financially, and I know she just went back to work even though their plan was for her to stay home with the kids.  He's too proud to ask for help (haven't we all been there?), but I can see they are stretched thin.  At the same time, they bought a rural acreage that is a real fixer-upper, and he's trying to do all the fixing up all at once instead of one project at a time.  

 

He asked to borrow my paint sprayer.  Out where I live, and having two jobs and no time, a paint sprayer is a must-have.  I have a house, a barn, corral fence, and two decks that all need to be stained or painted every year.  I have them on a rotation so I'm doing one every summer.  I also refinished the basement -- it was completely stripped down to concrete and studs, so when I got the new drywall hung and textured, I used the sprayer down there to prime and paint it.  

 

In other words this is a very important tool for me to own, and as I said before, I don't buy cheap tools.  Mine is a Graco Magnum Pro LTS-19, which is considered a contractor model designed for heavy use, not a homeowner model.  It can also have the pump rebuilt when needed instead of throwing the whole unit away; the homeowner models get tossed.  

 

As I said, I have two jobs (a full time career plus the Army Reserve) AND I'm in school most of the time anyway, collecting masters degrees (starting my third one in August!).  Having a collection of master's degrees is pretty much expected for what I do in the army, but none of them is a light commitment.  I just don't have the time to keep up with the acreage if I do it all by hand, so I take care of that paint sprayer.  Every time I use it, I don't just run water through it to clean it; I disassemble it and scrub every bit of paint or stain out of it.  I also have two hoses -- one for latex and one for oil-based stains.  I scrub every filter, channel, or passageway that paint / stain can get into.  I have a plastic box I put all the small parts and the gun (also disassembled) into, and leave it disassembled for storage.  That way it dries completely, and I always know I've remembered to clean it.  If you've never owned a paint sprayer, trust me when I say you MUST be very particular about cleaning it after use.  Failure to be anal retentive about cleaning will ruin it, and these things are not cheap.  When I put it away, I put "pump armor" into it to make sure the seals last longer, etc.  

 

Soooooo....when I loaned it to this guy, I showed him how everything comes apart, and preached to him about being anal to clean it after use, and showed him where all the filters were so he could pull them out and clean them.  I showed him how to take the gun apart to clean it, too; there is even a filter inside of it.  I gave him my container of "pump armor" and showed him how to prime the system with it (sure, the pump CAN be rebuilt, but why incur the cost if I can extend the life of the pump by taking care of it???).  

 

When he gave it back to me, I saw all the filters were still in place and the gun completely assembled, attached to the hose.  "Uhhh...did you remember to clean it like I showed you?" I asked.  

 

"I ran a bunch of water through it," he replied.  

 

So to shorten this novel, I spent all of yesterday and $200 reconditioning my paint sprayer.  Upon the advice of the technical expert at Graco, I had to run two gallons of acetone through it to clean all the crap out of the pump.  I had to buy and replace every filter, a few other small parts, and the gun.  

 

I guess I won't be loaning out that paint sprayer again.

Edited by Cyrus Cassidy #45437
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You learned a cheap lesson.

My cousin learned his much more expensively.

He got sued for loaning a circular saw to a fellow, "Who obviously didn't know how to use it and YOU didn't show him how!"

The lawyer Bruce used described similar suits arising out of almost everything from step ladders to chain blocks.

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Posted (edited)

There are three people, at this time, who may avail themselves of my tools!  My son, who currently lives with us and uses my shop to make a living, my buddy/partner who shared his entire shop with me until my shop was built, (and we still use each other's facilities and swap specialties) and a cowboy who has availed me of his services, mostly to my benefit, for a number of years.

 

There is my little brother, who has most of what I have, but would come to my shop to make use of some specialty items and allow me to do the same.

 

There is another cowboy or two who would be welcome, but I doubt that they would ever ask.  Either of them would more likely asks me to do whatever for them and we'd fight because they'd expect me to accept payment that I'd summarily refuse!!

 

And YEAH!!  I have tools passed down from my grandfathers!!

Edited by Blackwater 53393
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I borrowed an axe from my grandfather, broke the handle , bought him a new handle. He remarked that none of his nine sons had every replaced something that they broke.

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3 hours ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

When he gave it back to me, I saw all the filters were still in place and the gun completely assembled, attached to the hose.  "Uhhh...did you remember to clean it like I showed you?" I asked.  

 

"I ran a bunch of water through it," he replied.  

 

A "teachable moment."  I bet the guy watched intently, kept nodding his head and saying variations of "Yeah, got it!" 
I've had stuff returned in somewhat less than good condition.  I explained how upset I was because I had lent the guy the stuff in good faith and in good condition and had expected it to be returned in good condition, cleaned as I had directed.  Took the guy and talked him through the now much harder job of cleaning the stuff. Then explained to him how, because of his lack of respect for the belongings of others, he would never be borrowing from me again, and how he likely soured me on lending stuff, or at least that particular item, to others.

 

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I have a box of loaner tools. Want to borrow a tool? That is the box it comes out of. Funny, most people never ask to borrow another tool from me ever again.

 

But if someone comes over explaining for instance they have a frozen bolt, then I am happy to help with the understanding it is already broken so if I break it worse, then they really are not out anything.

 

For instance, a stuck manifold bolt on a big-block Chrysler... That would be the one that goes into the water jacket. It will probably break trying to get it out, which requires a machine shop to fix. But if I can get it out then my friend is ahead. Just need to set the expectation in advance as to that it already does need a machine shop. But sure as heck not going to loan a chrome 3/8 drive socket to try and free it, that will just break tools.

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45 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

A "teachable moment."  I bet the guy watched intently, kept nodding his head and saying variations of "Yeah, got it!" 
I've had stuff returned in somewhat less than good condition.  I explained how upset I was because I had lent the guy the stuff in good faith and in good condition and had expected it to be returned in good condition, cleaned as I had directed.  Took the guy and talked him through the now much harder job of cleaning the stuff. Then explained to him how, because of his lack of respect for the belongings of others, he would never be borrowing from me again, and how he likely soured me on lending stuff, or at least that particular item, to others.

 

 

Yes, I intend to do just that.  The difference between you and me is that I know I have a woefully "short fuse."  I don't want to pop off on a friend and sour a relationship just because he made me mad (ask me whether I've made this mistake before!).  History has shown that I need to sleep on it before I say anything, and the madder I am, the more nights I should sleep on it.  

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3 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

I borrowed an axe from my grandfather, broke the handle , bought him a new handle. He remarked that none of his nine sons had every replaced something that they broke.

 

I once borrowed a car battery charger from my old man; please refer to another thread about how he and I don't talk a whole lot.  Well, this particular car charger was older than me, but still worked fine.  Sure enough, in a moment of carelessness I knocked it off the bench and it broke the glass gauge cover.  The part could not be replaced, so I bought a new car battery charger.

 

He was shocked.  I suppose that's indicative of how well (or not) he knows me.

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11 minutes ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

 

Yes, I intend to do just that.  The difference between you and me is that I know I have a woefully "short fuse."  I don't want to pop off on a friend and sour a relationship just because he made me mad (ask me whether I've made this mistake before!).  History has shown that I need to sleep on it before I say anything, and the madder I am, the more nights I should sleep on it.  

 

 

I know the feeling.  I was ready to spit fire, but the guy was young so I clamped down on myself and right then had him clean the stuff so he would know how much work his laziness created, and how his saving himself 15 minutes ended up costing him an hour and a half.  
A saying that I always hated hearing from my parents, "Never time to do it right, but always time to do it over" was heard a time or three.  

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I could quote Polonius (Hamlet, act 1 Scene 3) here....but I won’t. ;)

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I just don't loan tools. This includes hand tools, electric tools and fuel powered tools. To many times the hand/electric tool(s) are returned dirty, broken, signs of obvious abuse or non working. I've had gas powered tools returned had the wrong fuel put in twice. Once, the tool was a gas mix, they just put gas in it...you know how that turned out. The other they put a mix in it instead of gasoline.

 

What really frustrates (PISSES ME OFF) me is when they lose the loaned tool and then give some BS story about it.

 

Now I'm thinking about some of the instances....I'm gonna have a beer and think of something else.

 

I understand your frustration Cyrus

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4 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I could quote Polonius (Hamlet, act 1 Scene 3) here....but I won’t. ;)

 

Are you telling me to be true to myself?

 

Don't forget, I've literally been to Shakespear's house in Stratford-upon-Avon.  :)

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I could quote Polonius (Hamlet, act 1 Scene 3) here....but I won’t. ;)

 

Quote

Affection? Pooh! You speak like a green girl,
Unsifted in such perilous circumstance....


 

:D

Edited by Subdeacon Joe
correcting misattribution
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12 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 


 

:D

I was thinking more of his speech to Laertes. :D

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I learned the hard way years ago not to loan out pretty much anything. 
I have only loaned out one gun. I will never do that again. 
I do not loan out vehicles either.

I am also a bit rude to people that get all “friendly” with me then ask “Hey, what are you doing this weekend?”

My response usually is “Why? What is it you are about to ask of me?”

The answer usually involves my truck or me using my tools to do something for them. 
I am what I would call “polite” (my wife calls it “fairly impolite”) and I inform them that U-Haul rents pickups $20 a day plus mileage and tools can be had from a variety of stores and that they need to learn the “joy of tool ownership”. I no longer volunteer my body for working on other people’s projects. It’s in bad enough shape. I need it to last me a while longer. 

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38 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I could quote Polonius (Hamlet, act 1 Scene 3) here....but I won’t. ;)

 

32 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Affection? Pooh! You speak like a green girl,
Unsifted in such perilous circumstance....

 

:D

 

Quote

 

Neither a borrower nor a lender be,

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulleth th’ edge of husbandry.

This above all: to thine own self be true...  :rolleyes:

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I was thinking more of his speech to Laertes. :D

 

Ah!  Think's thou upon this passage then:
"
Be thou familiar but by no means vulgar.

Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them unto thy soul with hoops of steel,"
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CC, have you informed this person of the amount of extra work his carelessness/incompetence created for you?

Especially after you showed him how it should have been cleaned.

FWIW: I sure as heck would......

OLG 

 

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If you loan anything (especially money) consider it a gift.

 

Things are more easily replaced then friends. 

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22 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

If you loan anything (especially money) consider it a gift.

 

Things are more easily replaced then friends. 

A friend would not destroy something they borrowed without replacing it. A user would.

 

A couple of SASS shooters have borrowed things from me in the past. She borrowed a hat pin. I had to ask for it to be given back to me. He borrowed a corkscrew and broke it. He never replaced it. I never loan anything anymore. I have given some costumes to people though.

 

So, I guess I am agreeing with you. :unsure: 

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44 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

If you loan anything (especially money) consider it a gift.

 

Things are more easily replaced then friends. 

Bad relatives on the other hand...

 

Loan each one $100. Then every time they show up, jam them up for it. Do not let any opportunity go by without jamming them up to repay. They will soon quit coming around. Best $100 you might ever spend in your life.

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Posted (edited)

Joys of wondering what happen to your stuff?

 

Loaned my brother my analog volt meter, first meter I ever got. (before cheap digital meters). A while later I when looking for it and remembered he had it. He said he returned it. Couple years later working in the barn I found it where he had been using it. Appeared that while he was using it, he also ran over it with the tractor. Let's just say there was not much left and it did not work any more.

 

My brother loaned out Grandpa's offset disc to a neighbor after he had just spent the winter rebuilding it. When he got it back, her spend a month fixing it and getting it back to the condition it was when he loaned it out. A couple years later, my best friend wanted to use it and I was going to let him use it and my brother had a fit and said not to loan anything out and told me the story of the disc. I should have reminded him about my meter he ran over.

 

My brother use to live down the road from my dad. When he could not find something, he would go to my brothers and usually find it. I think the full gas cans where his favorite to borrow and dad would find the gas can but it never had gas in it when he got it back.

 

I am not saying I have not done similar things to my dad and brother, but it always makes things interesting. I found my electric screw gun that was missing for 2 years on my dad's back porch, he told me he found in his garage  and was using it but did not know where it came from.

 

I found one jack stand in the barn the other day. I wish I could find the other one and Dad thinks it is in his garage somewhere.

I think it was a set his step-father had years ago. I took it over to his house as he needed help working on his mower. I think I left it over there. My jack stands are under the tractor I am currently replacing the wheels on it.

 

I know the chain on the wall in the barn is Dad's chain. I got stuck a couple months ago in the mud and was the only one I could find in his garage when I borrowed his tractor. I took the tractor back two weeks ago when he called me to bring the tractor back and he had me use it to till his garden. I will have to get the chain back to him so I will know where it is the next time I need it. My defense for not taking the tractor back was I had it parked inside the barn for the winter and he does not have room for it to be inside at his place. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

 

Edited by Maddog McCoy SASS #5672
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My biggest problem - and it is my problem - is that I will lend something to someone and forget about it until I need it... and then can't remember who I loaned it to.  :(

 

On the other hand, there have been a couple of times when I did remember who I loaned something to... but when I asked, they didn't remember borrowing it.  Usually small things, but... :wacko:

 

But the absolute worse case was when the Former Missus Hardpan came home one day and informed me that I was going to loan my tractor (MF-135) to her work buddy's husband the next weekend.  I'd never met the guy, but The Boss had spoken.

 

Saturday, his wife and he arrive, have coffee, visit a spell, then off they go, with him driving the tractor to their place about a mile away.  Tractor due back by Tuesday.

 

Tuesday came, and no tractor... it came back sometime the following weekend, as I recall.  Oh well...

 

And so it began.  Ol' Roy would call and ask to borrow the tractor - I would balk and the Former Missus Hardpan would intervene (or she would lend it to him if I wasn't there) and away it would go... usually to be returned only after a series of nagging phone calls.

 

Then one day he brought it back, and coasted it into my driveway - "Har!  Just ran out of gas and managed to coast into your driveway!!  Har!"  Uh... it had a full tank when you took it, dude.  <_<

 

Another time it came back minus the grille door.  "Roy!  Where's the rest of the grille?"  "I dunno.... someone musta stole it."  and off he went.  silly

 

Then he borrowed it again without asking - he'd bought his own key.  That time I hiked to his place and sure 'nuff, there it was.  I drove it home - and ran out of gas just as I pulled in.  (It had had a full tank when he took it).

 

That did it.  I lowered the boom - NO MORE!

 

But I have a soft heart (and a soft head to match).  Ol' Roy called up one Tuesday evening and was almost in tears... he was DESPERATE!  He absolutely needed to borrow the tractor and a blade; he had a huge pit that needed filling - it was a safety hazard and he HAD to get it done before the weekend... PLEEZE??

 

Yer kidding... right?

 

I held out as long as I could, but after "the look" from the Former Missus Hardpan, I finally caved - with him SWEARING that he would have it back Friday evening, as I told him that I had a critical need for it for a project I was starting at dawn on Saturday.  He understood... and would ABSOLUTELY have it back to me and he showed up an hour later and drove it home.  

 

Friday evening.  No Roy.  Saturday morning.  No Roy.  Later Saturday morning.  No Roy.  So I called his wife ~ "Oh!  Roy went fishing before dawn!"

 

I hiked over to Roy's, carrying a can of gas.  "His" key was in the ignition.  I now had an extra key.  Tank was bone dry.  Dumped in the gas, drove home, and and said to the Former Missus Hardpan - "Do not even THINK of lending that tractor or anything ELSE to that man!!  EVER!!!!"  She got the message.

 

About six months later, he called... and asked, "I don't s'pose you'd consider...?"  my answer was a curt "Nope!" followed by the *click* when I hung up.  

 

angry

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3 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Ah!  Think's thou upon this passage then:
"
Be thou familiar but by no means vulgar.

Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them unto thy soul with hoops of steel,"

You’re very close.

 

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8 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I could quote Polonius (Hamlet, act 1 Scene 3) here....but I won’t. ;)

 

7 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Ah!  Think's thou upon this passage then:
"
Be thou familiar but by no means vulgar.

Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them unto thy soul with hoops of steel,"


Maybe UB was refering to this???

 

 

 

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My father taught me that whenever I borrowed his tools to clean them and put them back exactly where I got them from. He had a place for every thing and knew exactly where they belonged, it was a lesson I took with me when I became a machinist and bought my own tools and toolbox. I bought good hand tools, MAC tools,  Brown and Sharpe mics and calipers, all in a Kennedy tool box, you get the idea, expensive and good quality. Every tool of mine had an exact place in my tool box and I knew where every tool was when I needed it and when I was finished with my tools they were all cleaned and put back exactly where they belonged for the next time.....Thanks for teaching me that Dad. :)

Anyway I would loan a tool to a fellow machinist if he needed to use one, with the instructions that he returned it to me the same day, cleaned and put back in my tool box exactly where he got it from (I could tell him the exact location in my tool box of the tool he needed). If the person I loaned the tool to did not return it to the exact location, cleaned, at the end of our shift, I would never loan that person a tool again. My son is now a machinist and to this day he is using every tool I owned and gave to him when I decided to no longer work as a machinist (I was a machinist for 30 years) and changed my profession to a metrologist.

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On 5/24/2020 at 7:15 PM, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

... informed me that I was going to loan my tractor (MF-135) to her work buddy's husband ...And so it began.  Ol' Roy would call and ask to borrow the tractor - I would balk and the Former Missus Hardpan would intervene (or she would lend it to him if I wasn't there) and away it would go... usually to be returned only after a series of nagging phone calls...."Har!  Just ran out of gas and managed to coast into your driveway!!  Har!"  ...Another time it came back minus the grille door...Then he borrowed it again without asking - he'd bought his own key.  ...Ol' Roy called up one Tuesday evening and was almost in tears... he was DESPERATE!  He absolutely needed to borrow the tractor and a blade...

 

Put a battery disconnect out of view.  Maybe two disconnects.  Turn it off EVERYTIME you are done using the tractor.

 

"Sure Buddy!"  Give me ten minutes and I'll make sure the gas tank is full for you!  It ran fine the last time you borrowed it, didn't it?  Tell you what.  You run into town, buy a new battery and I'll put it in when you get back."

 

"What's this?  Receipt for the battery?  We'll call it even for the times you borrowed my tractor.  Still doesn't turn over.  Hard telling how long it take me to get it running or even if I can.  Go ahead and go home and I'll call if I get it running."  Then go fishing.

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18 hours ago, Arizona Gunfighter said:

My father taught me that whenever I borrowed his tools to clean them and put them back exactly where I got them from. ...

 

We must of had the same Father.

 

Suppertime.  Family is eating around the table.  Dad states that I borrowed his screwdriver and left it lay on the table.  "If I want to use his tools then I need to put them away where they belong.

 

Suppertime.  Family is eating around the table.  Dad states that I borrowed his screwdriver and didn't put it away.  YES I DID!  I put it back in his tool box!  "Belongs on the shelf where I found it.  Not in the bottom of the tool box."

 

Suppertime.  Family is eating around the table.  Dad states that I borrowed his screwdriver and didn't put it away.  YES I DID!  I put it back in his tool box on the shelf!  "Handle was pointing in the wrong direction". Guess what I learn to do?

 

When of my favorite sayings at work; "It's obvious you didn't have my father when you were growing up."  

 

Wife, "I can't find xxxx have you seen it?"  My response, "Did you look where it belongs?"  She also has the habit of leaving things laying where she last used it.  Like the time I was working third shift.  I would walk though the house without turning on any lights so I wouldn't wake her just to trip over the laundry basket she left in the middle of the bedroom floor.

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On 5/24/2020 at 2:14 PM, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I could quote Polonius (Hamlet, act 1 Scene 3) here....but I won’t. ;)

Please do! Please do?

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Posted (edited)

Loaned a brand spanking new Skil saw to my brother. The only time I handled it was when I put the blade on it. Got it back all dusty inside and out. He used it to score his new sidewalks. I lost my sh!# right there.

Edited by Michigan Slim
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I loaned a set of Snap-On sockets to a neighbor, when I called to get them back he told me the only set he has is the one he's always had for years. Amazing how his set has the same 15mm socket replaced with a Cresent!:angry: Now I take a picture of a borrowed item in the borrowers hand before they leave the yard! I guess I'll never learn not to loan tools.:ph34r:

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Posted (edited)

I Don't loan anything to anybody      I have tools from my great  grand father.

Edited by BAMAKID

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On 5/24/2020 at 2:56 PM, John Kloehr said:

Bad relatives on the other hand...

 

Loan each one $100. Then every time they show up, jam them up for it. Do not let any opportunity go by without jamming them up to repay. They will soon quit coming around. Best $100 you might ever spend in your life.

Going to have to try this with my brother in law

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14 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Now I take a picture of a borrowed item in the borrowers hand before they leave the yard!

My father-in-law was a professional mechanic. He had many many tools. Because of this he seem to believe that any tool around his house belonged to him.

 

There were a couple of my tools that ended up at his house (we lived next door to each other) and got put in his toolbox because "they must be mine".

 

He wanted to borrow my finishing sander one time. Before I gave it to him I took a paint stick and wrote my name on it in two different places. About three weeks later he brought it back.

 

I used to work in the aviation repair business. You had to shadow your toolbox, so that you can tell at a glance if one or more tools was missing. And every tool was marked with your first initial, your last initial, and the final four of your social security number. That way if they found a socket in the engine compartment they knew which moron left it there.

 

Your neighbor would have been hard put to claim that that was his socket set, if the ratchet and every individual socket had EH1234 scribed into it with a vibratool.

 

Don't just complain. If you're going to loan something to someone, mark it.

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Posted (edited)

A thousand years ago a co-worker ask me to lend him a quarter for a can of pop.  A few weeks later he asked me again.  I told him no because he hasn't paid me back from the loan of the last quarter.  He laughed, reached into his pants pocket and brought out a fist full of coins.  Flipped mr a quarter before turning to another co-worker to ask for a quarter.  He never asked me again.  

Edited by Matthew Duncan
correct typos created my me and autocorrect
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