The Verdigris Kid Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Was watching this movie for the umpteenth time last night and happened to notice something I never had before. During the nomination scene when JW turns his back to the camera there is what appears to be a 45-70 round slotted in his gunbelt along with the pistol cartridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisano Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Been told he did that frequently so he knew when he reached the middle and belt was half empty. Don't know when he actually would have reloaded, but that is the story I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo Montana Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Here is one explanation: Why does John Wayne appear to have a large caliber bullet in his belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 I always thought it was to help him keep his balance while walking due to his 'swagger'. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Kid Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 4 hours ago, paisano said: Been told he did that frequently so he knew when he reached the middle and belt was half empty........................................... This is the understanding that i have always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Well, I thought most people in those days tried to match both their 1873 Colt pistol(s) and their Winchester rifle to the same caliber. That was caliber .44-40 in the early 1870’s. That’s why I always questioned the .45-70 cartridge in John Wayne’s Pistol belt. I didn’t think the movie armorers used separate caliber blanks in the weapons, but maybe it’s just that simple. Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Huckleberry Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 If I remember some distant-past reading, blanks in western movies were usually '5 in 1' blanks, that fit 38-40, 44-40, 45 LC (don't know where they got '5' out of that). Every blank I've seen would not be confused with live ammo -- either the mouth of the case is crimped to a point, or slightly roll-crimped and a wad set deep in the case over the light powder charge. I'd always heard the, 'running low on cartridges' explanations for the 45-70 in the loops. Does anyone in SASS do it as a nod to the Duke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 It wasn't "5 different calibers". It meant "five different guns". 38/40 rifles and pistols (that's two), 44/40 rifles and pistols (two more makes four) and 45 pistols (total of 5). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Lots of SASS shooters copy that. I guess cause it looks cool!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang, SASS #53480 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 11 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: I always thought it was to help him keep his balance while walking due to his 'swagger'. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Steak Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 13 hours ago, Bingo Montana said: Here is one explanation: Why does John Wayne appear to have a large caliber bullet in his belt? Loads on my computer as a paid subscription site.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 If I’m shooting my 44-40 1860 Henry and my 45 Rugers, I use a 45-70 to keep them separated on my belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeb Gray, #36839 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 I shoot .38 special & have a 38-55 cartridge in the back of the bullet loops. I hang my ammo bag on the longer cartridge while shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo Montana Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Chuck Steak said: Loads on my computer as a paid subscription site.... Links to an article from True West Magazine and is not behind a paywall or a subscription site. "For his movies, John Wayne wore a gunbelt that centered the .45-70 long rifle bullet in order to separate the other two similarly-looking bullets. Historian Jim Dunham says that one side (probably the right from the buckle, around to the long case) was filled with .45 long Colt ammo that fit the Duke’s revolver. On the other side were .44-40 caliber bullets that fit his Model 1892 Winchester carbine. The two bullets look identical; if one got mixed up with the other, it would easily jam the firearm." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Wheeler Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 If you ever have a squib in your double barrel shotgun, a 45-70 cartridge is a good thing to grab and toss down the barrel to clear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Very interesting discussion regarding the long cartridge in JW’s pistol belt. I never looked at John Wayne’s cartridge belt that closely, but I’d be surprised if the armorer crew ever (for a couple reasons) loaded his belt with “movie blanks”. I’d bet they just loaded him with dummy rounds of all one caliber, not giving the movie-goer credit, or reason enough to check for different caliber movie blanks (which may not have even existed on a movie set).....I’ve never looked that hard, that’s for sure. I’m guessing that probably some armorer-historian coached JW as to some “cowboys” having used the large, .45-70 cartridge to separate different caliber rifle and pistol cartridges to prevent “grabbing” mistakes. Cool? John Wayne probably thought it was cool, too! Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Huckleberry Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Before he acted, John Wayne worked on movie sets, was supposed to have met Wyatt Earp (ETA: even if they never actually met, they did work for Ford on the same sets) and used that knowledge to build his cowboy persona. Maybe he got the detail from Earp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Steak Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Cant remember the web site but another story was that Yakima Canutt told the Duke "thats how the old timers used to do it" and so Wayne started doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/20/2020 at 12:00 AM, Cat Brules said: Well, I thought most people in those days tried to match both their 1873 Colt pistol(s) and their Winchester rifle to the same caliber. That was caliber .44-40 in the early 1870’s. That’s why I always questioned the .45-70 cartridge in John Wayne’s Pistol belt. I didn’t think the movie armorers used separate caliber blanks in the weapons, but maybe it’s just that simple. Cat Brules That’s a myth, probably propagated by Winchester to sell more rifles/cartridges. The sales and production numbers tell the whole truth. Almost more 45 colts than all other calibers combined and more than twice that of 44-40. I’m sure there were some that went that route, but certainly not most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/20/2020 at 9:55 AM, Bingo Montana said: Links to an article from True West Magazine and is not behind a paywall or a subscription site. "For his movies, John Wayne wore a gunbelt that centered the .45-70 long rifle bullet in order to separate the other two similarly-looking bullets. Historian Jim Dunham says that one side (probably the right from the buckle, around to the long case) was filled with .45 long Colt ammo that fit the Duke’s revolver. On the other side were .44-40 caliber bullets that fit his Model 1892 Winchester carbine. The two bullets look identical; if one got mixed up with the other, it would easily jam the firearm." Being someone that also shoots two different calibers and loads them on my belt, I go the other direction. Left side is pistol right is rifle. It’s easy to load a Colt with the left hand, but harder to load a rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 It is my understanding that The Duke's" sixgun was actually a .38-40, not .44-40 or .45LC. I have read and heard that the .45-70 round was to let him know when he was getting low on ammo, on one side. Stay well, Pards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Kid Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 On 5/22/2020 at 10:25 AM, Trailrider #896 said: It is my understanding that The Duke's" sixgun was actually a .38-40, not .44-40 or .45LC. I have read and heard that the .45-70 round was to let him know when he was getting low on ammo, on one side. Stay well, Pards! He carried all these calibers thru his career ..... But it seems I read somewhere that he prefered the balance and handling of the 38-40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Dantankerous said: Reader's Digest is wrong. In his early B westerns he carried a 5½". In his later A westerns he carried a 4¾". And the guns he carried in his last movie weren't even Colts. They were Great Westerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Sawhorse Kid said: He carried all these calibers thru his career ..... But it seems I read somewhere that he prefered the balance and handling of the 38-40. In his early movies, he did carry a 38-40 colt. The iconic gun most think of was originally a 44-40 Bisley converted to 45 colt, with a plow handle grip and maintained the bisleys trigger guard. Supposedly to accommodate his big fingers. I don’t know if there is any truth to that last part, but in keeping with the title of this thread, when legend becomes fact, print the legend. 31 minutes ago, Alpo said: Reader's Digest is wrong. In his early B westerns he carried a 5½". In his later A westerns he carried a 4¾". And the guns he carried in his last movie weren't even Colts. They were Great Westerns. This is true. Those great westerns he used were given to him as a gift and he always wanted to use them in one of his movies. The Shootist was a perfect choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Kid Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 1 hour ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said: ............The iconic gun most think of was originally a 44-40 Bisley converted to 45 colt, with a plow handle grip and maintained the bisleys trigger guard. Supposedly to accommodate his big fingers. I don’t know if there is any truth to that last part, but in keeping with the title of this thread, when legend becomes fact, print the legend. ................................... Wayne's Bisley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 The very first firearm John Wayne ever carried on screen was a Colt M1911. He played an uncredited American Officer in Four Sons. (1928) His first credited movie where he carried firearms was The Big Trail. (1930) Used an Enfield Pattern 1853 and an 1858 Remington New Army. He didn't carry a SAA until The Range Feud. (1931) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 On 5/21/2020 at 6:34 PM, El Hombre Sin Nombre said: That’s a myth, probably propagated by Winchester to sell more rifles/cartridges. The sales and production numbers tell the whole truth. Almost more 45 colts than all other calibers combined and more than twice that of 44-40. I’m sure there were some that went that route, but certainly not most. I read once that most of those .45 colts were sold to the army, most civilians bought 44-40 to match their Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 25 minutes ago, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said: I read once that most of those .45 colts were sold to the army, most civilians bought 44-40 to match their Winchester I've read that before as well, but the numbers just don't support that theory. There were almost 160,000 Colts made in 45 colt, with 37,000 military issued. So that leaves roughly 120,000 for civilians. By comparison, there were only 71,000 44-40's made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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