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Dantankerous

Ruger conversion cylinder 45 Colt/45acp

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I've found a real purdy Ruger SS Bisley 45 Colt locally that comes with a 45 acp cylinder. Anyone ever shot 45 acp through this set up? Pros? Cons? Anything to know other than plug and play?

 

Thanks.

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In a conversion package is the extra cylinder fit or timed to the revolver? Or are these usable in another gun of the same model, more of a drop in cylinder?

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17 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

In a conversion package is the extra cylinder fit or timed to the revolver? Or are these usable in another gun of the same model, more of a drop in cylinder?

I understand they are timed to the revolver and they should not be used in another revolver. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I understand they are timed to the revolver and they should not be used in another revolver. 

 

This strikes me as a curious remark, and not disputing it. You can see dimensional variations from 45 colt and 45 acp.  There is a .004 diameter difference at the rim and .007 difference at the mouth, but then again they aren't the same length so mouth diameter is a moot point.  And these differences logically support that maybe some timing issues may present themselves. But if center of chamber is center of bore, whats the difference? I am not experienced. I don't know. You tell me......To illustrate my confusion with the premise that these 45 ACP cylinders should only be used with the gun they came with, let's look at another "conversion cylinder" example. ( ALso, if the ACP cylinder is timed to the revolver, one can conclude the 45 Colt one is too!)

 

R& D/Howell make conversion cylinders that drop in fit for 45 colt into 44 cal cap and ball revolvers. Case diameter on 45 Colt is .480 at rim and mouth. 44 cap and ball cylinders are bored at what?  Around .450 +/- ? We're talking .030" difference, far greater than .004" difference in 45 Colt and 45 ACP, yet they drop in fit and work on guns held together with wedge pins and rotate on poorly machined base pins and arbors...

 

Someone tell me why a 45 ACP/45 Colt  cylinder can't go gun to gun on a firearm as well made as a Ruger, but a Howell/R&D  can drop in any cap and ball gun with no modification to revolvers notorious for poor arbor fit, barrel to cylinder gap, timing issues, etc and so forth?

Edited by Dirty Dan Dawkins

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19 minutes ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

 

This strikes me as a curious remark, and not disputing it. You can see dimensional variations from 45 colt and 45 acp.  There is a .004 diameter difference at the rim and .007 difference at the mouth, but then again they aren't the same length so mouth diameter is a moot point.  And these differences logically support that maybe some timing issues may present themselves. But if center of chamber is center of bore, whats the difference? I am not experienced. I don't know. You tell me......To illustrate my confusion with the premise that these 45 ACP cylinders should only be used with the gun they came with, let's look at another "conversion cylinder" example. ( ALso, if the ACP cylinder is timed to the revolver, one can conclude the 45 Colt one is too!)

 

R& D/Howell make conversion cylinders that drop in fit for 45 colt into 44 cal cap and ball revolvers. Case diameter on 45 Colt is .480 at rim and mouth. 44 cap and ball cylinders are bored at what?  Around .450 +/- ? We're talking .030" difference, far greater than .004" difference in 45 Colt and 45 ACP, yet they drop in fit and work on guns held together with wedge pins and rotate on poorly machined base pins and arbors...

 

Someone tell me why a 45 ACP/45 Colt  cylinder can't go gun to gun on a firearm as well made as a Ruger, but a Howell/R&D  can drop in any cap and ball gun with no modification to revolvers notorious for poor arbor fit, barrel to cylinder gap, timing issues, etc and so forth?

It’s what I have been told. 

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I had a pair of Blackhawks at one point. One was stainless, the other was blued. Neither had a convertible cylinder with them when I got them used. I ran across a stainless .45acp cylinder at a gunshow. I bought it for a pencil holder but decided to investigate it a little. The cylinder had a serial number on it consistent all the Rugers I have owned and seen. I fired one cylinder full of .45acp, without incident. BUT the cylinder wouldnt even come close on timing in the blued gun. I no longer have either pistol but I still have the cylinder. I makes an excellent pencil holder.

 

Imis

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Hey Pat Riot I need to message you but the mailbox says you cant receive messages. 

Imis

7 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

It’s what I have been told. 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

Hey Pat Riot I need to message you but the mailbox says you cant receive messages. 

Imis

 

Try now

 

Sorry Dantankerous. 

Edited by Pat Riot, SASS #13748

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18 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Try now

 

Sorry Dantankerous. 

No worries, Pat.

 

Good discussion and I recieved the data I needed.

 

:)

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I have an 3 screw Blackhawk convertible. Always shot more ACP's than LC, mostly because I had so many more of them. Loved shooting them. Mine is a 7 1/2" and 200gr ACP loads were a pussycat in that big gun. It was my first CAS pistol and started loading LC's then.

JHC

 

 

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12 hours ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

Someone tell me why a 45 ACP/45 Colt  cylinder can't go gun to gun on a firearm as well made as a Ruger


I found your answer. 
 

Go to page 12 of this manual and read the “WARNING”

http://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/blackhawk.pdf
 

Here is the Troubleshooting Guide sheet from Howell on fitting a cylinder to an 1861 Army - I selected the 1861 Army by Pietta. (Funny...the Uberti cylinders do not have a troubleshooting link). The guide does not mention cylinder to bore alignment as is the concern with Ruger Convertibles. 
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585463cbf5e231d31f2ef781/t/58fa30361e5b6cd8b713fd8e/1492791351309/1860+Army+Troubleshooting+Guide.pdf


Here is a link for Buffalo Bore’s page on Howell R&D cartridge conversion cylinders. Nearly every one they have listed states that revolvers made before 2002 will need to be shipped to Howell for fitting, which I am sure is fitting for chamber to bore alignment. 
https://www.buffaloarms.com/cartridge-conversion-cylinders/howell-arms-conversion-cylinders


Dirty Dan,

I am really glad I researched this. It gave me an idea to buy a conversion cylinder for my 1861 Army to use as a backup gun. I really had not considered that before.

Thank you. :)

 

 

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Both my main match sixguns are OM Vaqueros.  Initially, they did NOT come with interchangeable cylinders in each particular gun.  But I had a gunsmith fit and time the .44-40 and .44 Mangle-em cylinders for each individual gun...NOT between guns, however.  Properly done, so that the timing is correct for both cylinders there is no reason a .45LC/.45 ACP conversion can't be accomplished.  But I wouldn't just try to drop in an after-market cylinder.  (ONE exception:  Years ago, I picked up a Colt's Frontier Six Shooter (.44-40). The cylinder throats were .4255" and the groove diameter was .427"  I bought a new-manufactured cylinder from John Kopec with .427" throats.  I figured I'd have to have the new cylinder fitted by a local 'smith.  Just for the heckofit, I dropped the new cylinder into the gun.  To my surprise and delight the new cylinder fit perfectly and locked up like a bank vault!  One of the most accurate-shooting Colt's I've ever seen! And with a 4-3/4" barrel at that!  :D  But that's an exception.

Stay well, Pards!

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For what it's worth, I have two .45 Colt New Model Blackhawks.  No convertible cylinders, but just for the record, their cylinders absolutely will not swap - each will only fit in its original frame.   

 

Of course, there is a 23 year difference between dates of manufacture.  Bought the first in 1974 and the second in '97.  Armorer for the Fresno Sheriff's Department did a nice action job on the newer one, matching it perfectly to the much smoother early model.   

 

DAMN but they're fun shooters!  ^_^

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6 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:


I found your answer. 
 

Go to page 12 of this manual and read the “WARNING”

http://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/blackhawk.pdf
 

Here is the Troubleshooting Guide sheet from Howell on fitting a cylinder to an 1861 Army - I selected the 1861 Army by Pietta. (Funny...the Uberti cylinders do not have a troubleshooting link). The guide does not mention cylinder to bore alignment as is the concern with Ruger Convertibles. 
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585463cbf5e231d31f2ef781/t/58fa30361e5b6cd8b713fd8e/1492791351309/1860+Army+Troubleshooting+Guide.pdf


Here is a link for Buffalo Bore’s page on Howell R&D cartridge conversion cylinders. Nearly every one they have listed states that revolvers made before 2002 will need to be shipped to Howell for fitting, which I am sure is fitting for chamber to bore alignment. 
https://www.buffaloarms.com/cartridge-conversion-cylinders/howell-arms-conversion-cylinders


Dirty Dan,

I am really glad I researched this. It gave me an idea to buy a conversion cylinder for my 1861 Army to use as a backup gun. I really had not considered that before.

Thank you. :)

 

 


Thank you!

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So, the whole notion of a drop in cylinder has footnotes and asterisks....good to know. Then folks ought not to advertise as such.
 

So, where they’re timing it is hammer to hand and bolt to cylinder engagement, correct?

 

Cylinders are drilled out to where they are drilled out and bolt slots are generally cut where they are going to be cut....unless the machinist boogered them up and got way off.....

 

So that really leaves tinkering with the ratchet and slots on the second cylinder fitted. If you get one cylinder to work with a gun, I reckon you leave the gun alone and you’re left to manipulating the second cylinder’s ratchet and slots so as to prevent throwing the gun out of time with the first cylinder.

 

Is this a safe assessment?

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

So, where they’re timing it is hammer to hand and bolt to cylinder engagement, correct?

Yep

 

26 minutes ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

Is this a safe assessment?

Yep

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 If you guys keep this thread going I'm going to be very tempted to go back and buy that beautiful Ruger SS 5.5" Bisley Blackhawk 45/45.

 

:D:D:D

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7 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

 If you guys keep this thread going I'm going to be very tempted to go back and buy that beautiful Ruger SS 5.5" Bisley Blackhawk 45/45.

 

:D:D:D


Hah! I dare ya!

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Just now, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:


Hah! I dare ya!

 

The only thing holding me back right now is my jonesing for a 454 Casull SBH Bisley. Or a GP100 44 Special.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

 

The only thing holding me back right now is my jonesing for a 454 Casull SBH Bisley. Or a GP100 44 Special.

 

 

I am seriously considering this:

https://ruger.com/products/redhawk/specSheets/5059.html
 

I want a S&W 327 TRR8. But the last 3 new S&W revolvers I have purchased have all had to go back to S&W for repairs due to QA dumbassery. One is going back for the third time soon. I think it’s time to try a new DA revolver source. 
I live Ruger single actions but have never owned a Ruger double action revolver. 

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well now , DROP in parts are all drop in , TILL THEY AIN'T , 85+% of the time 

 

 the set of conversion cyls , I got for the 58 shad to be fitted to the gun , 

 

 all the duel cyl Rugers , I have had came from the factory that way , just keep the cyl with the gun it was fitted to 

 

 thinking , if it were not so expencive , I would like to get a set of cyls for the Pietta 1860s 

 

  CB 

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