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John Kloehr

How Long is this Barrel?

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Posted (edited)

The real John Kloehr shot an octagon-barrelled 1873 in 44-40. Have not found documentation on the length... Did find this picture of him holding it:

 

kloehr.jpg

 

How long do you think the barrel is? I'm not bound to being historically accurate, but would like to know when one of my details is or is not correct. Just for fun.

Edited by John Kloehr
embarrassing typo

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I'd guess 20. 

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Not a 30 inch...my guess is 24 inch

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Looks to be 24” in my view

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24" figuring his hand width at 4".

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If his hand is at the end of the forestock that bbl is at least 28".

kR

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24”

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Measure from the outside of his hand to the backend of the bbl, that is at least 12" then measure from his hand to the end of the bbl. It is at least 4" longer. I just measured forestock on 3 different length 73's they are all 12" from back of bbl to end of forestock. If what is left of the bbl is more by at least 4" the bbl length has to be at least 28".

kR

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42

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No Clue.  WAG (Military acronym for Wild Ass'd guess) would be "about that long."

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As Palewolf pointed out, using the hand width of 4 inches, the barrel must be at least 24 inches and possibly 26.

 

Back then Winchester had a lot of options for the buyers so you could get almost any length you wished.

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Posted (edited)

According to my Blue Book Original 73 rifles only came in 20 and 24 inch barrel lengths. The Musket version had a full length forearm and a 30 inch barrel.

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

According to my Blue Book Original 73 rifles only came in 20 and 24 inch barrel lengths. The Musket version had a full length forearm and a 30 inch barrel.

 

Factory yes but you could custom order any length I have one made in 1885 that is from factory 26. And one made in 1898 that left the factory with a 28" round barrel the shortest I've seen is 14"   there is a gentleman who comes ever year to the local gun show with his Winchester collection.  He normally brings about 30.  It's fun to see the documented history. If you wish to purchase one of the historic one you better come with deep pockets.  His cheapest is 45k

Edited by evil dogooder
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My guess is 24".

I zoomed in and out to use a tape measure for approximations.

 

I am guessing he was not  large statured man. and guess a shoulder width of 16-18".  From his tie to his right shoulder ( gripping lever and arm hanging more naturally), I measured approx. 1". So 1" equals roughly 8-9". Barrel measured approx 2 7/8" but barrel is at an angle, you can see the bore. So I'll say 2 3/4" - 2  13/16". 

Its tough to accurately assess the barrel length because of the angle.

2 3/4 x 9 + 24.75"

2 3/4 x 8.5 = 23 3/8"

2 3/4 x 8 = 22"

 

I also zoomed to where his hand measured approx.  1/2" with tape measure. If his hand in real life actually was approx. 4", then there are 8" per full inch measured. Then measured barrel it measured approx. 3". 

I calculated:

8"x 3"= 24"

 

Covid-19...enabling cowboys to pursue endeavors they never would have before.......

 

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2 hours ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

My guess is 24".

I zoomed in and out to use a tape measure for approximations.

 

I am guessing he was not  large statured man. and guess a shoulder width of 16-18".  From his tie to his right shoulder ( gripping lever and arm hanging more naturally), I measured approx. 1". So 1" equals roughly 8-9". Barrel measured approx 2 7/8" but barrel is at an angle, you can see the bore. So I'll say 2 3/4" - 2  13/16". 

Its tough to accurately assess the barrel length because of the angle.

2 3/4 x 9 + 24.75"

2 3/4 x 8.5 = 23 3/8"

2 3/4 x 8 = 22"

 

I also zoomed to where his hand measured approx.  1/2" with tape measure. If his hand in real life actually was approx. 4", then there are 8" per full inch measured. Then measured barrel it measured approx. 3". 

I calculated:

8"x 3"= 24"

 

Covid-19...enabling cowboys to pursue endeavors they never would have before.......

 

Use a measurement you know, the length from the start of the bbl to the end of the forstock is 12".

kR

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So the consensus seems to be 24". And some of the analysis gave me some ideas for photoshop efforts mashing up images from Gunbroker as an overlay. Because of the angle towards the camera and not knowing focal length, I can only guess at foreshortening. But a similar image might allow a confirming estimate.

 

I do want to point out I accept 42 as an absolutely correct answer, as it is a unitless number and therefore always a foundation for a correct answer with scaling and/or unit conversion.

 

And "about that long" is also correct in the same vein as the answer does explicitly include units of length, normalized to one. Which makes it just as helpful as "42."

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All that’s okay, bu how many of you included the chamber (screwed into the receiver) in your barrel measurement.??    Hmmm?

 

Cat Brules?

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As John points out 42 is of course a valid answer based on:

 

"What is the answer to life and all questions?"

 

 

 

42

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

My guess is 24".

I zoomed in and out to use a tape measure for approximations.

 

I am guessing he was not  large statured man. and guess a shoulder width of 16-18".  From his tie to his right shoulder ( gripping lever and arm hanging more naturally), I measured approx. 1". So 1" equals roughly 8-9". Barrel measured approx 2 7/8" but barrel is at an angle, you can see the bore. So I'll say 2 3/4" - 2  13/16". 

Its tough to accurately assess the barrel length because of the angle.

2 3/4 x 9 + 24.75"

2 3/4 x 8.5 = 23 3/8"

2 3/4 x 8 = 22"

 

I also zoomed to where his hand measured approx.  1/2" with tape measure. If his hand in real life actually was approx. 4", then there are 8" per full inch measured. Then measured barrel it measured approx. 3". 

I calculated:

8"x 3"= 24"

 

Covid-19...enabling cowboys to pursue endeavors they never would have before.......

 

Agree.  My '73 buttstock measures 4-1/4" in height.  By the photo, the barrel is about 5.5 x the buttstock measure.  So the barrel would be 23.375" or 23-3/8".   Call it 24.   What's remarkable is that our two different methods came out exactly the same.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Agree.  My '73 buttstock measures 4-1/4" in height.  By the photo, the barrel is about 5.5 x the buttstock measure.  So the barrel would be 23.375" or 23-3/8".   Call it 24.   What's remarkable is that our two different methods came out exactly the same.  

That's what happens with two guys with same alias initials......must be soul mates.....

 

Do you like long walks on the beach, binge watching B-westerns on the couch on a rainy day?

 

Well, barrel length includes the threads and about 3/4-1" or more of threads inside of the action, so from the action to the end of the barrel will measure roughly right around 23-23 1/4", not 24"

Edited by Dirty Dan Dawkins
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cat Brules said:


All that’s okay, bu how many of you included the chamber (screwed into the receiver) in your barrel measurement.??    Hmmm?

 

Cat Brules?

Just saw you post and responded above before reading your comments. See above post from me and the other DDD.......

Edited by Dirty Dan Dawkins
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

Use a measurement you know, the length from the start of the bbl to the end of the forstock is 12".

kR

I didn't know that, and hadn't one to reference. I don't own a '73. Sold one long ago, after maybe 18 months service and 1300 wasted dollars when I concluded the Marlin for $700 is a far superior design.

 

;)

Edited by Dirty Dan Dawkins
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Posted (edited)

Standard 1873 barrels were 20 and 24.25.

Winchester adds said that barrels could be custom ordered at $1 per inch, up to 32" per RL Wilson's Winchester book.

This looks like a 22".

The buttplate looks like a rifle, not a carbine.

The forearm looks too short for a 24.25.

Edited by Tom Bullweed
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Another One Saying 24 inches...

More or Less....

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

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27 minutes ago, Tom Bullweed said:

Standard 1873 barrels were 20 and 24.25.

Winchester adds said that barrels could be custom ordered at $1 per inch, up to 32" per RL Wilson's Winchester book.

This looks like a 22".

The buttplate looks like a rifle, not a carbine.

The forearm looks too short for a 24.25.

Making a note to look into the bolded part. Did not know that might be a difference.

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im in for 24" based on all the above 4" references and his hand is forward of the end of the forestock by my old eyes , but what a fun discussion , thanks for posting it , 

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I'm sure the guy in the pic just figured it was long 'nuff to shoot straight and not too long for a scabbard.  

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A prop gun kept at the photographer's studio for just such "he-man" pictures, that was never owned by herr Kloehr?

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Posted (edited)

It's probably a standard 24 1/4"  barrel.

 

This is what a 30" Rossi looks like;

439285896_IMG_3062(1).thumb.JPG.c781085fb812f972e20ccd458b4cfe3c.JPG

This is a custom 454 casull. The only Rossi parts used was the action.IMG_3066.thumb.JPG.8ecb0f6bc05bac027ca78e9fceabae3f.JPG

 

Edited by Nate Kiowa Jones #6765
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24 by my estimation.

 

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On 5/19/2020 at 4:22 AM, John Kloehr said:

The real John Kloehr shot an octagon-barrelled 1873 in 44-40. Have not found documentation on the length... Did find this picture of him holding it:

 

kloehr.jpg

 

How long do you think the barrel is? I'm not bound to being historically accurate, but would like to know when one of my details is or is not correct. Just for fun.

Good eye John.

kR

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14 hours ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said:

It's probably a standard 24 1/4"  barrel.

 

This is what a 30" Rossi looks like;

439285896_IMG_3062(1).thumb.JPG.c781085fb812f972e20ccd458b4cfe3c.JPG

This is a custom 454 casull. The only Rossi parts used was the action.IMG_3066.thumb.JPG.8ecb0f6bc05bac027ca78e9fceabae3f.JPG

 

My first 73 was a 30" bbl Uberti in 45 Colt.

kR

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Nate Kiowa Jones ALWAYS has such WONDERFUL toys.

 

My Butt, Stock, is 48 1/2

 

I have fondled factory (Winchester) barrels that were 14 inches, as delivered.

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18 hours ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said:

IMG_3066.thumb.JPG.8ecb0f6bc05bac027ca78e9fceabae3f.JPG

The grain on the fore grip look incredible. Whoever carved that obviously cared.

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