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Wander N. Star SASSL #8856

Black Powder guns rule change

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How about we outlaw all adjustable sight revolvers??

 

Okay I'll hide now.........Fire away!!:P:lol:

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Personally I don't understand why there are restrictions on adjustable sights in any category.   I have a revolver made in 1880 something that has adjustable sights.

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11 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Personally I don't understand why there are restrictions on adjustable sights in any category.   I have a revolver made in 1880 something that has adjustable sights.

When rules for SAS were being developed, one of the ideas kicked around is that whatever was "generally available" would be acceptable.  The name of the organization should be a huge hint for anyone as to the type of action acceptable... It was generally thought (believed) at the time that adjustable sights on handguns were not "generally available"...   And, being that the most prolific gun touted by most everyone was the Colt SAA, its example became the standard by which all others were compared.  

 

Secondly, as the BP categories were an outgrowth of the "Traditional" category, keeping the "traditional" sight requirements satisfied the proponents of said BP categories.  And yes, there were folks that complained about the fixed sights in the early BP category (which required cab & ball revolvers), as they wanted to shoot their ROAs, which were limited to the "Modern" category due to their adjustable sights.  When the original BP category was eliminated and "Frontier Cartridge" took its place, the same sight restrictions took it's place.  (first offered @ EOT in 1990 & won by Tex, SASS#4).

 

 

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This is gonna get shutdown before it hits 4 pages!:P

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As with any game the rules are the rules. Either you play by them or you dont play the game. I guess there's another option. You can play the game with no regard to the rules but I dont think others will let you play with them very long that way.  I have no opinion on the OP's suggestion really. I dont see any true advantage or disadvantage of having adjustable sites at our average target distances. All I can say is if you have sass approved main match pistols with adjustable sights and really want to shoot BP then do it. I dont recall any rule that says you cant shoot BP in any non-BP categories. Unless you're worried about being competitive in that category? 

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PLUS ONE too Turkey Flats Jack.

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PLUS ONE too Rye Miles

 

When you see the whites of their eyes --- SHOOT BACK

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I shoot FCD ,,,, Keep the adjustable sights OUT of OUR game ...

 

Jabez Cowboy 

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I do shoot (when I get a chance to these days) fixed sight pistols. So I don't have a dog in this fight.  But I have never figured out what difference having adjustable sights would make.  There were guns with adjustable sights back in the Old West.  Not common, but there.  What difference does it make whether you sight in your guns by turning small screws...or using a file on them?  Just saying...:unsure:

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Weren't most of the adjustable sights on single actions in the late 1800s a smaller, shorter windage adjustable by drifting type of sight?  They didn't have the target sight picture that modern adjustable sights offer. 

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19 hours ago, Cat Brules said:

 

Colonel Gilliam, 

Sir I agree with your position, as noted above in your reply.


I disagree with our colleagues’ such as Barry Slow, and those replies with similar views.....they are wrong.

 

I am, at this time, in a position where I cannot reply properly/easily, however, I will create a new, different topic related to this one when I can.
 

Cat Brules

 

Untitled.png.f42d858e658557482381b5b436a674d5.png

 

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Posted (edited)

When I started waaaay back in 1996, they're weren't many choices for revolvers. I started with a Blackhawk but I quickly changed to a Vaquero then I got into Uberti's and Colts with fixed sights of course. Now there's so many revolver choices out there there's no need to use "modern revolvers". If we brought back the Modern category then maybe okay but really who uses adj. sights anymore?

Edited by Rye Miles #13621

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

When I started waaaay back in 1996, they're weren't many choices for revolvers. I started with a Blackhawk but I quickly changed to a Vaquero then I got into Uberti's and Colts with fixed sights of course. Now there's so many revolver choices out there there's no need to use "modern revolvers". If we brought back the Modern category then maybe okay but really who uses adj. sights anymore?

 

I have SEVERAL revolvers with adjustable sights!  I’m not saying I use those sights, but I enjoy using those revolvers!!

 

 

OUTLAW!!  The unofficial category where sights don’t matter!!!!

 

:o :rolleyes: ;) B) :lol:

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5 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

PLUS ONE too Turkey Flats Jack.

I had to read that more than once to make sure i saw it right. Not used to anyone agreeing with me :lol:

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6 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

but really who uses adj. sights anymore?

 

I guess I would like to be able to use adjustable sights as a GF.

 

As a gunfighter I would like to have a set of new vaqueros made up with octagon barrels and dovetail front sights,.

 

Unfortunately the dovetail front sights are considered adjustable and therefore not allowed in GF category.

 

I do not want to shoot in B Western category.

 

 

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I do sometimes get a bit tired of these "minor" rule change requests.

 

Folks, the rule were established when you and I both  joined.  Remember!????

 

Now just because you  only have one "style" of equipment you'd like to have it allowed in any category you want to shoot.

 

Well  ,folks dance with who ya brung!!!!

You wanna dance a different tune?  Get a different date.

 

Good luck.

 

Ol'  #4

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PLUS ONE too Ol Number4

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ol Number4 said:

I do sometimes get a bit tired of these "minor" rule change requests.

 

Folks, the rule were established when you and I both  joined.  Remember!????

 

Now just because you  only have one "style" of equipment you'd like to have it allowed in any category you want to shoot.

 

Well  ,folks dance with who ya brung!!!!

You wanna dance a different tune?  Get a different date.

 

Good luck.

 

Ol'  #4

 

 

Overall, I think that the rules of the game are just fine the way they are.  

That being said, I have never made a secret of the fact that I think there are a handful of specific rules that are just silly and should be done away with.  But, I do recognize that they ARE the rules and I abide by them.  When a specific one comes up, I won't hesitate to voice my opinion.   The  nature of our game is such that from time to time some of the rules will evolve and change for whatever reason.   For the most part I have found these changes to be reasonable, but even more to be so minor that I don't think they really make much of a difference.  The rules that I think should be changed never seem to change though, and while I am frustrated by that, I accept it.  

What I really don't understand it how some people think that no rules should ever change under any circumstances, or that get upset with those who might say that something could be different or better.  Change is a constant.  Changes should be considered carefully, but there are some that might make for improvement.  What's wrong with at least considering some of those changes?

 

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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I never use the sights, either fixed or adjustable.  They'd just slow my time down even further.  I can't see the damn things anyway.

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Bring on the adjustable sights, just put them in the same class as the H&R's with ejectors. 

 

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Howdy,

 

Once again this topic has started a string of thoughts.

 

Hear is a thought, this sport needs new life blood, it is not a cheap sport. We have to have guns for this or that then it closes the sport off.

 

Another thought, I have been in this sport for a lot of years and have seen many changes. I shoot BP and Frontiersman and have for many years. I love to see folks come to the Black side to enjoy the smoke. Why not let more come into the fun. What is the harm of letting folks use the equipment they may have instead of having to buy all new guns? 

 

The last time I brought this topic up you would have thought I had had relations with folks wives. This is a Fantasy sport we even have Steam Punk in the sport. 

 

I am just trying to get more folks to our sport so it does not fade away when we do. Our average age is getting to be deceased so some changes need to be made.

 

I have had my thoughts and it was only to get some folks thinking.  There is nothing personal so calm down and think about the sport not you own personal desires. 

 

I have loved this sport from the beginning and will to the end. Health reasons limit my shooting now but I still want to see Cowboy and Cowgirls shooting this sport.

 

Enjoy it while you can and HAVE FUN!

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W. N. S.,  Thanks for having the courage and bringing up a sensitive topic.  I agree with letting people come into the game with what they have to get them hooked.  Face it, we are like drug dealers trying to get others to join in our madness because we love it so much.  That being said, Ruger Blackhawks are not necessarily the cheapest entry gun unless they already own two.  There are more economical choices to get started.  So, if one is to get into the game and is dead set on owning Rugers, the Blackhawk may be a limiting choice if wanting to shoot other categories.  This is why the number one bit of advice offered to new shooters is to go to a match and talk with other shooters before they buy anything.  I have not witnessed at any time a shooter was not allowed to use whatever pistol or rifle they have if it close to the SASS guidelines for new shooters within reason.  If they were to show up with two SA revolvers, a lever action rifle and their Benelli M4, they will more than likely get a choice to use many different styles of shotguns that day to see what they like best.  As previously stated, if you want to shoot black with your adjustable sight SA revolvers, it can still be done in age based categories.  Yes those categories are typically populated by smokeless shooters in those categories, but within the rules to shoot black powder propellant in those categories.  I disagree with the proposed rule change as it will not garner the affect you are soliciting.

 

For my buddy Noz, “Leave Frontiersman Alone!”

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There are many Old West aficionados here so I'm sure most are aware that DA pistols were available in the 1800s.  Since the DA pistols were available in the 1800s why don't we start using them, we can change the name from SASS to DA-SASS.  Makes it sound more urban, maybe we can even turn it into one of them rap songs - Nothing but DA-SASS, but DA-SASS.  That may also bring in some new categories like GF with DA's being called Double Double, or maybe even gangsta category where you have to shoot the DA holding it sideways. 

 

No I'm not serious about this and don't want to offend the OP, or start a range war, just trying to lighten things up a little with some bad jokes.

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With regards to pre-1900 DA revolvers, (And I absolutely mean pre-1900, not modern ones.) I think it is not unreasonable to find a way for them to be included in our game.   What that way is, I can not definitively say.   I suppose there are three options.

 

1.   Some sort of a side match.

2.  Allow them as Main Match revolvers, but only if they are operated in single action mode.

3.  Allow them as Main Match revolvers is a separate specialized category.

 

I think option 1 is the most viable.

 

I think option 2 is a good idea.

 

I think option 3 is the most problematic and would create more problems than it is worth, but it's not so bad to at least think about it.

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Posted (edited)

Some DA revolvers are already allowed in "some sort of a sidematch" if they conform to the "Pocket Pistol" regs.

;)

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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Also, remember that you can shoot your adjustable sight revolvers in the appropriate category in a SASS Black Powder Championship match. 

 

For instance, as a 50 year old man you can shoot your Blackhawks, Marlin, and Model 97 in the 49er category in a Black Powder Championship Match.

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2 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

Some DA revolvers are already allowed in "some sort of a sidematch" if they conform to the "Pocket Pistol" regs.

;)

 

 

 

Heh heh, that is true.

 

But I was thinking more about "full size" pistols that would not be pocket pistols.   Colt, Smith & Wesson, Merwin & Hulbert, Webley, Nagant and a few others made things that spring readily to mind.   

Oh well.   At least I'm not advocating for the Broomhandle Mauser.  Fun gun, and even if is pre-1900, I just don't see any kind of a logical place to put it. 

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We don't need no more stinking categories, except outlaw.

 

We don't need no more stinking rules.

 

We don't need no more stinking rule changes.

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I don't think membership would increase if Frontiersman were made "easy".  Percussion revolvers are quirky and more difficult to keep functioning.  Black powder and substitutes take a bit more diligence in cleaning and gun maintenance and brass preservation.  Dealing with smoke clouds obscuring targets during the match can be difficult.  Duelist style gun handling with a single action revolver is a bit more demanding than using both hands.  Many of us, perhaps most of us, shoot Frontiersman mostly for the challenges this category provides.  There are all those other categories to make easy, if you think that is in the best interest of the sport.  If you make Frontiersman easy, I will quit.  And I don't think I'm the only one.

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Gunfighters have the best memories. We need it to remember the target after the first shot is fired.  :lol:

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6 hours ago, Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L said:

We don't need no more stinking categories, except outlaw.

 

We don't need no more stinking rules.

 

We don't need no more stinking rule changes.

Starting a thread, but somehow I feel I will regret doing so...

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10 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

Gunfighters have the best memories. We need it to remember the target after the first shot is fired.  :lol:

Not this gunfighter. Maybe good gunfighters have a better memory but I gotta shot slow to see the targets through the smoke. Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it. 

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Posted (edited)

 

 

Quote

 

Another thought, I have been in this sport for a lot of years and have seen many changes. I shoot BP and Frontiersman and have for many years. I love to see folks come to the Black side to enjoy the smoke. Why not let more come into the fun. What is the harm of letting folks use the equipment they may have instead of having to buy all new guns? 

 

 

You don't need to change category rules to let someone enjoy the sport of shooting BP. I shot BP for many years before I even knew about SASS.  It is not something that is exclusive to one category.  You can shoot BP in ANY category.

kR

PS and almost any gun.

Edited by Kid Rich

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Posted (edited)

48668513856_47414f6dfc_o.thumb.jpg.743345923e40c4df5164b7e4d43eb414.jpg48668194053_476346f41e_o.thumb.jpg.7ac5914cd60116c738f8f9d6bf832214.jpgIf you’re shooting a black powder category when do you ever see your sights?  I think the question should be do they have a good enough memory to remember the stage to shoot it blind and can they crouch and get back up from the crouch without using their hands to look under the smoke?

Edited by Trooper Ozzy
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