Guns and Categories, rules confused me

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

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If I go with BP for rifle and revolvers, do I have to also go with BP for shotgun? Is there a category which allows mixed until I get everything up to speed?

 

From current Shooters Handbook:

Page 9

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all shotgun, revolver, and rifle powder charges must produce smoke at least equivalent to a baseline load of 15 grains by volume (1 cc) of
blackpowder

page 10

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Must use blackpowder in all loads (rifle, revolver, and shotgun)

 

And definition of the term Blackpowder ammunition is on page 27

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BLACKPOWDER AMMUNITION
- Throughout this handbook, blackpowder means blackpowder, or a blackpowder substitute such as Pyrodex, 777, APP, or comparable propellants intended for
muzzle loading firearms.  Propellants containing nitrocellulose are prohibited as blackpowder substitutes.

 

In a frontier cartridge or frontiersman category, or a plainsman event, a Black Powder or sub is required in all cartridges and shells.   Penalty - a Procedural for first stage you do that, progressing to SDQ and MDQ if that violation is repeated on following stages, for not adhering to the requirements of the category   

 

In categories that don't require Black Powder or sub, you are free to shoot any combination of smokeless or smoky ammo.   Just don't mix the two types of powders in a single cartridge or shotshell - that is an illegal load of "duplex powders."

 

As you can see, the rule book is a little clearer on the topic of frontier cartridge ammunition. 

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

3 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

Actually not yet. Been collecting my brass from various calibers for a while now, reloading is definitely in my future. While I have been running the math based on CAS, I will get additional savings reloading .223, 38 Special smokeless, and .357 Magnum.

 

Not planning to reload .22LR (duh), 9mm (no significant savings), or 7.62 (the steel-cased stuff is cheap, would reload brass but not worth buying).

 

Shotgun is another discussion for a future thread.

 

I can load 9mm NATO spec ammo for 1/2 of what factory costs. I buy my components in bulk. 

Steel cased .308 is not good for many rifles like the M1A.

OLG 

[John Kloehr]

11 hours ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

You can shoot blackpowder ammunition in any category.  In one of the smokeless categories you can shoot blackpowder ammunition.  You can shoot both blackpowder ammunition and smokeless ammunition in smokeless categories.  You are disadvantaged shooting blackpowder in a smokeless category since you have to content with smoke obscuring targets.  Just start shooting smokeless ammunition and once you learn the game you can try the Darkside.  There are plenty of Soot Lords on this Wire that will help you make the change.

Good idea. At some point the transition will require tracking which ammo has what powder, but the simple answer then will be shoot it all and start over.

[John Kloehr]

11 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

... Just don't mix the two types of powders in a single cartridge or shotshell - that is an illegal load of "duplex powders."

And sounds dangerous too.

 

That is not what I meant by "mixed" but someone could read that into the question.

 

Thanks for more detail than I intended, the specific rule references will also help the next person to find this thread.

[John Kloehr]

9 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

I can load 9mm NATO spec ammo for 1/2 of what factory costs. I buy my components in bulk. 

Steel cased .308 is not good for many rifles like the M1A.

OLG 

When I ran the numbers, I came up with 3.5 cents per round savings on 9mm but I did not look for the best possible prices, just a rough estimate. OTOH, if I wanted to reduce recoil and push to the minimum power factor and still be legal in Steel Challenge, then the savings will be a lot greater as that tailored ammo does cost more. But also the pursuit of performance is less connected to cost than the experience of it.

 

I run steel cased ammo in my commie guns which are OK with it. No steel goes in any of my other guns.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

13 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

If I go with BP for rifle and revolvers, do I have to also go with BP for shotgun? Is there a category which allows mixed until I get everything up to speed?

No, you do not, but you you have to be in a smokeless category, and your pistol and rifle bullets must meet power factor and not smoke standard.

 

For instance, when I started this game, I was reloading pistol and rifle, but did not have a SG reloader yet.

 

I shot black out of the pistol and rifle, factory smokeless shotgun shells, and actually put myself in the Classic Cowboy category (with meeting all the other category requirements). Did that for several months until I bought a SG reloader and started making BP shotgun shells.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

double tap

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi John,

 

This is OT (off topic). I see you have a SASS number. Do you have an alias yet? If it is not John Kloehr,  you can ask one of the Moderators to have it changed for you (that change requires Administrative authority). We all go by our alias here.

 

I am very impressed with your manners and way of asking questions. You might want to start building your reputation with your alias. Some of us, who have known others for a very longtime, don't know each others' real names.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

@Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 I learned something new today!

 

Even if it was his real name, John Kloehr would make a great historical alias:

 

https://truewestmagazine.com/john-j-kloehr-downs-a-dalton/

 

https://www.kayempea.net/adds/kloehr.html

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Sorry John, if I misunderstood your name.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

I use an OM Ruger in .44 Remington Magnum for SASS "Long Range" pistol side matches. It is a real tack driver. 

 

Regarding Gunfighter, I only enter matches that let me use Gunfighter in my age based category. It strikes me as hopelessly ridiculous for me to travel to an away match to be DQd for shooting Gunfighter in El Rey when I am usually the only one in the category. There is no logic involved in restricting Gunfighter. I have always been ambidextrous and have been shooting that style since a preteen. (As a kid, I used my gift of gab to get my parent to buy two revolvers.) Now that I am in the over 85 class, it is a little disingenuous to toss me out of matches for doing what I have been shooting for so many decades!  This is the last remnant of the ant igun BS at the beginning of SASS. Actually, Gunfighter was originally completely banned from SASS at the beginning. 

 

I know that many shooters can't shoot Gunfighter. So what? I can!!! 

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

 I no longer care about being awarded anything for an age based category. The last time I did was when NRA state  indoor pistol Grand Senior was introduced. I hope to still compete later in the over 100 category.  

[John Kloehr]

8 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

No, you do not, but you you have to be in a smokeless category, and your pistol and rifle bullets must meet power [smokeless] factor and not smoke standard.

With the added word in square brackets just to be sure I read it right...

 

ARGH... OK. I can deal with that. Not sure I would have picked that up on another read of the rules without your input. Thanks!

 

And I will read the rules again in the next couple days. Wonder what will confuse me this time.

[John Kloehr]

5 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Sorry John, if I misunderstood your name.

No problem. I'm still amazed nobody else took this alias years ago.

[Tyrel Cody]

1 minute ago, John Kloehr said:

With the added word in square brackets just to be sure I read it right...

 

ARGH... OK. I can deal with that. Not sure I would have picked that up on another read of the rules without your input. Thanks!

 

And I will read the rules again in the next couple days. Wonder what will confuse me this time.

 

Since you're close to ORSA, might be worth it to ask @Tn Tombstone if he's planning any RO1 classes in the near future.

[John Kloehr]

4 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Since you're close to ORSA, might be worth it to ask @Tn Tombstone if he's planning any RO1 classes in the near future.

Thanks for the pointer to a human. I already planned RO1 and some months later RO2. Also thinking about the NRA RSO certification. Just need to solve the time and money problems.

 

But yes, the group at ORSA strongly recommends all participants take at minimum RO1.

 

PM going off now to ask about it.

[Tn Tombstone]

I have responded to John Kloehr and offered an orientation class first. I also have plans on ROI and ROII coming up. as soon as folks can get out again. We will take good care of him and hopefully get him shooting soon.

[Kid Rich]

Lets git him started right by shootin outlaw from the start.

kR

[John Kloehr]

1 hour ago, Tn Tombstone said:

I have responded to John Kloehr and offered an orientation class first. I also have plans on ROI and ROII coming up. as soon as folks can get out again. We will take good care of him and hopefully get him shooting soon.

Got it, and have registered on the club forum.