Flying with a gun

[Alpo]

Has it gotten to be more of a pain in the ass?

 

Unless my end destination was somewhere where it was illegal for me to have one (New Jersey, Puerto Rico) every time I have gotten on an airplane there has been a pistol in my suitcase.

 

The only time there was ever a problem was when I had to argue with the idiot at the Wichita counter, who kept insisting that the firearms tag needed to be taped to the outside of the suitcase.

 

But the last time I flew was 2006. A story I am reading, taking place this year, has the protagonist being pulled out of line by TSA and they all go and check his paperwork because they see a gun in the X-ray when they scanned his luggage.

 

Nothing like that ever happened to me, but as I say, it has been 14 years since I've been on an airplane. Wondering if the rules had tightened up, or this was just another example of an author not knowing what he was talking about.

[Dantankerous]

No problems here. I follow TSA and specific airlines regs and have never had an issue, including flying from Wichita all the time (my home airport). I have copies of the TSA rules for flying with firearms AND a copy of the airline that I am flying rules in case I encounter said idiot.

 

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

Way more difficult and potentially it can get you jailed. There are more than a few instances when a person flying  was forced to disembark in a local where simply taking possession of his/her checked firearm is illegal. The instant that he/she takes possession of their baggage they have broken the law and will go to jail.

 

Same is true if you are travelling through a state in your car. You are ok as long as you do not stop. But if you break down and have to remain there you are now in violation of that states laws.

 

Situations like these is why I'll never fly with a firearm or travel by car through a state where my firearms are illegal.

[Hashknife Cowboy]

Follow the policy of TSA to the letter and speak to the airline that you are using to make sure you are adhering to their policy.  I have not had a problem, historically or currently.  

[Adolph Vancinghand, SASS #28923]

I've never had any problems flying domestically with firearms.  Internationally can be a different story.

 

Our last trip to Argentina (2016) had us flying Dallas to Cordoba via Santiago, Chile.  I had all our paperwork from the Argentinian embassy, but nothing from the Chileans as we were only transiting Santiago and would never take possession of the guns.  Long story short, the black-pajama-ed Chilean Security Forces didn't share that opinion and I was really beginning to believe that I was gonna get to see what the inside of a third world Santiago jail looked like (it was on Sunday and I didn't know if the Embassy could do anything til the next day).  Thankfully (just before our flight departed) they decided that we weren't a big enough security threat and ought to be sent along to the Argentinians!

 

Same hassle on the return leg, just much more low key.  Needless to say, it'll be a cold day in Central H3LL before I go thru Santiago again!

 

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[LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L]

I last flew a couple of years ago.  Was for my job, and I needed to be armed when I got on the ground.  I flew out of Huntsville AL airport, and ended up in Salt Lake City, UT.  My gun, three mags and a box of ammo went into a Pelican box and was stored in checked luggage.  Not a single issue, and I was armed before I drove out of the airport garage.  

[Utah Bob #35998]

3 minutes ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

I last flew a couple of years ago.  Was for my job, and I needed to be armed when I got on the ground.  I flew out of Huntsville AL airport, and ended up in Salt Lake City, UT.  My gun, three mags and a box of ammo went into a Pelican box and was stored in checked luggage.  Not a single issue, and I was armed before I drove out of the airport garage.  

Back in the 70s they first put metal detectors in Miami International Airport because of the hijackings to Cuba.

A friend of mine was flying up to the state Capitol. He was in uniform and armed which wasn't prohibited then. They had Security Guards at the detectors, not police officers. There was no TSA then. The rent a cop insisted Mike go though the detector. Everyone has to go through”, it he insisted. With the line backing up after a 5 minute argument he said, “Well okay then”, and stepped through. Not surprisingly, the bells and lights went off and the guard freaked out. My friend was standing there laughing when the Airport Cops got there. I suspect the guard received some remedial training.

[Dantankerous]

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Way more difficult and potentially it can get you jailed. There are more than a few instances when a person flying  was forced to disembark in a local where simply taking possession of his/her checked firearm is illegal. The instant that he/she takes possession of their baggage they have broken the law and will go to jail.

 

Same is true if you are travelling through a state in your car. You are ok as long as you do not stop. But if you break down and have to remain there you are now in violation of that states laws.

 

Situations like these is why I'll never fly with a firearm or travel by car through a state where my firearms are illegal.

 

 The simple answer is don't go to places that don't like guns. I avoid anti gun jurisdictions like the plague when I travel. If they're not free I'm not going to spend my money there.

 

Or you could just opt to not travel with firearms but again what fun is that, being held hostage in a non free zone in what's supposed to be free country?

 

 

[John Kloehr]

3 hours ago, Alpo said:

... the idiot at the Wichita counter, who kept insisting that the firearms tag needed to be taped to the outside of the suitcase.

 

... the protagonist being pulled out of line by TSA and they all go and check his paperwork because they see a gun in the X-ray when they scanned his luggage.

The first is certainly an idiot. And the second, must have been some problem with the tag not in the suitcase, so he had to prove he declared the firearms. That is just a guess.

 

For me when I flew with arms a few years ago, proper key-lock box cabled to the suitcase frame. Ammo in a separate box (with a tray, no "loose" ammo). Some airlines do not allow combo locks as "anyone" could know it. Not like "anyone" could not have collected the half dozen or so keys those locking boxes can come with... And some airlines will not allow bulk-pack ammo, each round must be separate from every other round.

 

So when declaring my firearm at the checkin counter, the guy wants me to open the locked box to show him it was unloaded. Umm, no way.

 

Then I'm directed to leave my suitcase near the scan station rather than them taking it behind the counter. I made sure to get the attention of the luggage screener to take it directly from me.

 

Once at the destination, bags with high-value content (like guns) are supposed to be claimed at the airline counter. Nope, they did not have it; I walked over to the carousel and it had come out with everyone else's luggage.

 

So yes, it does seem to be more of a pain than it should be.

[Chantry]

6 hours ago, Alpo said:

Has it gotten to be more of a pain in the ass?

 

Unless my end destination was somewhere where it was illegal for me to have one (New Jersey, Puerto Rico) every time I have gotten on an airplane there has been a pistol in my suitcase.

 

The only time there was ever a problem was when I had to argue with the idiot at the Wichita counter, who kept insisting that the firearms tag needed to be taped to the outside of the suitcase.

 

But the last time I flew was 2006. A story I am reading, taking place this year, has the protagonist being pulled out of line by TSA and they all go and check his paperwork because they see a gun in the X-ray when they scanned his luggage.

 

Nothing like that ever happened to me, but as I say, it has been 14 years since I've been on an airplane. Wondering if the rules had tightened up, or this was just another example of an author not knowing what he was talking about.

 

Things have changed.

I haven't flown with a gun, but it used to be that the bright firearm sticker had to be on the OUTSIDE of the luggage.  Perhaps due to an attack of common sense or tired of spending money to replace the firearms, it was changed that the sticker could be on the locked box containing the firearm even if it was inside a suitcase.

 

In theory FOPA  (Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act#"Safe_passage"_provision ) covers transportation while driving, however there are stories (true or not) of certain blue states not recognizing FOPA.  The problem is that there are not a lot of gun owners willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to maybe win the court battle and get their gun or guns back versus losing the court battle and maybe serving a jail sentence.

 

And as mentioned already, when flying if you arrive at a layover where you are not allowed to have the firearm, do not accept the luggage or else you will be arrested.  NYC (including Newark airport in NJ) is famous for this.  And no one is willing to fight it in court. for the same reasons I stated in the previous paragraph.

 

I go to the NY SASS State Championship and the SASS Tri-State match in MA every year and under the state law for both states, I am legally allowed to transport locked, unloaded firearms and SASS firearms, as well as the single stack 9mm semi-auto for the hotel room, are legal to own in both states.

 

 

 

[Alpo]

6 minutes ago, Chantry said:

it was changed that the sticker could be on the locked box containing the firearm even if it was inside a suitcase.

The tag - they don't use the sticker anymore - goes inside the locked case with the gun.

 

it is illegal to mark the case in any manner to show that there is a firearm in it.

 

That was my problem with the idiot in Wichita.

 

Her : it HAS to be on the outside

 

Me: it is ILLEGAL to put it on the outside

 

We went round and round over that for a while.

[Turkey Flats Jack]

To many horror stories of people complying to the laws when they board and being jailed when they reach their destination or a layover for me to bother trying it. I will say should you choose to fly with your firearms be sure to check the laws for everywhere you will be landing in addition to where you're boarding. Not to mention in the 10 or so times i've flown my checked luggage has been lost 3 times by the airport.  To me it might be worth just mailing them to an FFl holder at my final destination and picking them up when you get there. 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

I'm reminded of a trip back in '01.  Palouse and the late Steve Harris had invited then-nine year old Sassparilla Kid and me up to Washington to hunt with Steve's "Felony Flight*" duck club. 

 

So just about two months after 9/11, the Former Missus Hardpan drove the two of us to the airport.  Shotguns in an "airline approved" case, we're standing in line at the baggage check counter.  So there we were.  Waiting patiently in line, listening to the Former Missus Hardpan harangue me incessantly about the absurdity and stupidity of my even thinking about getting on an airplane with two shotguns in my luggage.

 

Finally, I sighed, pointed at the line, and said one word:  "Look."

 

She followed my pointing finger and was shocked to see at least four people ahead of us in line with gun cases.

 

Not another word said.  

 

*All in all, a wonderful trip.  The Kid shot his first duck... a right purty li'l teal.  Incidentally, Steve was Chief of Police of Redmond ~ I thought his naming the club "Felony Flight" was downright whimsical!  

 

[Cat Brules]

I traveled extensively to and from Japan.  I arrived in Tokyo (in a business suit) on one trip and there was a strange immigration type I had to get past, who:

- wanted to know if I was a Cowboy. (1st question).... (“Yes”)

- wanted to know if I was a movie star.  (“No”)

- wanted you know if I had a gun.  (“No”)

- wanted to know if I had marijuana.  (“No”)

-  wanted to know if I smoke marijuana.  (“No”)

——- so, by now, I’m getting “weirded out” and I leaned in to him and began sniffing.  I said, “I smell marijuana!  You are smoking marijuana!  I smell it!”  He began looking around and apologized.  He said he did not smoke marijuana and apologized profusely, and at that point, couldn’t wait to get me to leave.  As I was walking away with my gear, some guy, apparently his manager, approached and wanted to know what was going on.  I bowed and told him nothing, that the officer was doing a very good job and was being thorough, courteous, polite and respectful.  We parted ways.

(Where that “cowboy” question, and the rest, really, came from, who knows?  Never had anything like that happen, especially in Japan!)

 

Cat Brules

[John Kloehr]

3 hours ago, Chantry said:

In theory FOPA  (Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act#"Safe_passage"_provision ) covers transportation while driving, however there are stories (true or not) of certain blue states not recognizing FOPA. 

It is not that they don't recognize FOPA, they do and must since it is federal law, but... NYS recognizes FOPA as an affirmative defense. This means the officer pulling you over may not exercise discretion and may arrest you for the illegal firearm(s). 

 

Then you get booked, schedule a court date, go in front of the judge, and say "Yes, I did have those firearms but I was transporting them from [source] where I am legally allowed to have them to [destination] where I am also legally allowed to have them. I also had no destination in your state so I was in compliance with all applicable laws.

 

Then the judge will ask the arresting officer if he has any evidence to the contrary. Having no evidence to present that your source and destination did not prohibit the firearms, nor any evidence of a destination within the state, the judge will dismiss the charges. Then you get to go about recovering your firearms. They will likely need to be shipped to an FFL in your home state to be transferred back to you.

 

Anyway, those are the stories I have heard.

Quote

I go to the NY SASS State Championship and the SASS Tri-State match in MA every year and under the state law for both states, I am legally allowed to transport locked, unloaded firearms and SASS firearms, as well as the single stack 9mm semi-auto for the hotel room, are legal to own in both states.

In-state (NYS) competitions are expressly allowed in NYS law, but the above info regarding FOPA may also apply. Just a different defense in court citing NYS law and providing proof of registration for the in-state competition.

 

If an officer pulling you over does exercise discretion, then no problem.

 

My advice for NYS is to fill up before entering, check your headlights and turn signals, don't speed, don't have any firearms-related decals or bumper stickers, clean your windshield, don't have your radio too loud, don't smile too much or too little, and for God's sake, do not enter or go near "the city."

 

Upstate is really a different place both socially and politically. And being polite may save a competitor a lot of grief.

 

And most definitely flying into the city to go somewhere else under FOPA (for instance by rental car to Maine) has resulted in arrests. Because the airport was a destination in the state.