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Well, this has, like as not, been cussed, and discussed, before, here on the Wire.  If so, I apologize, I just missed it.

 

Every so often someone asks how the retractable firing pin is holding up, and how reliable is it, and who has had issues with it, and who likes it, hates it, and who would not buy one to even use as a salt water boat anchor. 

 

That question, that comes up now and then, makes me wonder (I can't wander anymore, since ve are quarantined by za state).   

 

So, far Pietta has not joined the ranks of the retractable firing pin design.  So far, Pietta has not joined in the ranks of making one piece grip frames, like a Ruger.  I have heard most of the "reasons" why Beretta/Uberti made the decision to go down this road.  Lawsuits, lawyers, insurance, safety, liability, that the United States' rules don't allow them to import without a "safety device" to keep the sheeple from shooting themselves, or someone else....and perhaps even a statement that they can do what they want, when they want.  Yada, yada, yada....Yoda!    Yippe Yi Yo Ki Yaaa! 

 

So....questions is....why does one overseas manufacturer do that, and the other one(s) do not?  Perhaps it really IS just a certain company's decision, and not any "rules" to follow, since not all importers are doing it the same way.  I will put in caveat, here, and say..."so far". 

 

I know opinions are like armpits...most everyone has at least two....so how 'bout it Pards....opinions as to why one does, and why one doesn't???? 

 

Thanks.

W.K.

 

VOTE this year!!!

 

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Pietta offers a transfer bar and on the other guns their base pin locks in and can be pushed in to make a safety much like Uberti used to do. Uberti came up with this hammer safety thing on their own. It all boils down to liability issues.

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Just some thoughts and ideas, not knowledge:

 

I suppose Beretta/Uberti is a much bigger company than Pietta. So first, they are more likely to get sued (because one can get more money out of a legal case) and second, there is more budget for new innovations.

 

I am not a lawyer, but the former (and still used by Pietta) base pin lock system seems to me quite contestable as a "safety" in a court case. It's not the usual one-handed operable switch like on other firearms. It's obvious, that (almost) nobody would use that feature on purpose. And when engaged it's not safe to have a round under the lowered hammer. I know it's a 150 year old design and I personally wouldn't want it to be changed, but if a customer buys a revolver nowadays (s)he can claim that safely load all the chambers is simply state-of-the-art. In the other thread, @El Hombre Sin Nombre posted that "we aren’t the biggest market. Not even close." That's plausible and so, the attempt to a design change with a modern, "no-brainer" trigger safety for all users is understandable. One goal of the new design was obviously to make it not visible from the outside to keep the looks original which might be the most important aspect to most buyers (because if they were looking for authenticity they would buy a Colt). Unfortunately, this new safety design seems to be a bit fragile and lacking of reliability (yet).

 

Equanimous (who was lucky enough to find older long-base-pin Cattlemen :))

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Until recently only one company offered a single action revolver that you could load all chambers and if you dropped it, it would not go "boom" and possibly injure or kill someone, Ruger. Pietta recently entered this market with transfer bar equipped single actions. The "purists" hate them and consider it a "cheap copy of Rugers design". Uberti came up with a totally new (and I believe innovative) design that keeps the "pure" looks of the colt design, something Ruger never even considered, and is challenging Ruger's supremacy in that market. Yes there is a market for single action "carry" guns that can pass the "drop test" and be fully loaded, just look at Rugers success with the Blackhawks and Vaqueros. Note I did not even mention Colt, they are a completely different market. Not because they are better or worse guns, but because they are 3-4 times more expensive than any of the others.

 

Of my 10 single action revolvers, 1 is a Cattleman II and it has never misfired. I bought it new, fired a box of ammo thru it, tore it completely down and cleaned it, as I do with any new gun. The design and function of the retractable firing pin seems fine to me. If I had to choose 1 as a "carry" gun, that would be it, because I can safely load all chambers and it is reliable.

 

I have seen many post "it didn't work" or "I sent it in to be repaired" but have yet to see anyone actually post what the issue was/is. There are only 4 parts to the system, Firing pin, actuating rod,  trigger, and hammer. Which part "failed" or "broke" please? Lots of cowboys posting "it's terrible, I sent them to (name your gunsmith) and had it replaced with the good ol 4 click system, without even firing them. I would like to see some feedback from a gunsmith that has "fixed 100 or more" of these with some useful information. Did they actually need "fixed" or were these just cowboys who don't like these new fangled things? I believe 90% or more are in this category.

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2 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

Until recently only one company offered a single action revolver that you could load all chambers and if you dropped it, it would not go "boom" and possibly injure or kill someone, Ruger.

The ill fated Colt Cowboy model had a transfer bar. I had a German single action, don't remember the brand, that had a transfer bar. The Heritage Big Bores have a transfer bar. probably more?

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16 minutes ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

The ill fated Colt Cowboy model had a transfer bar. I had a German single action, don't remember the brand, that had a transfer bar. The Heritage Big Bores have a transfer bar. probably more?

Hawes I believe was the German company. I have one of those too. Yes some smaller companies have tried. Heritage only recently entered the "big bore" market. The big 3, Pietta, Uberti, and Ruger rule the single action revolver market. Colt had a good idea, but as usual priced themselves out of the "affordable" market.

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19 hours ago, Waxahachie Kid #17017 L said:

Well, this has, like as not, been cussed, and discussed, before, here on the Wire.  If so, I apologize, I just missed it.

 

Every so often someone asks how the retractable firing pin is holding up, and how reliable is it, and who has had issues with it, and who likes it, hates it, and who would not buy one to even use as a salt water boat anchor. 

 

That question, that comes up now and then, makes me wonder (I can't wander anymore, since ve are quarantined by za state).   

 

So, far Pietta has not joined the ranks of the retractable firing pin design.  So far, Pietta has not joined in the ranks of making one piece grip frames, like a Ruger.  I have heard most of the "reasons" why Beretta/Uberti made the decision to go down this road.  Lawsuits, lawyers, insurance, safety, liability, that the United States' rules don't allow them to import without a "safety device" to keep the sheeple from shooting themselves, or someone else....and perhaps even a statement that they can do what they want, when they want.  Yada, yada, yada....Yoda!    Yippe Yi Yo Ki Yaaa! 

 

So....questions is....why does one overseas manufacturer do that, and the other one(s) do not?  Perhaps it really IS just a certain company's decision, and not any "rules" to follow, since not all importers are doing it the same way.  I will put in caveat, here, and say..."so far". 

 

I know opinions are like armpits...most everyone has at least two....so how 'bout it Pards....opinions as to why one does, and why one doesn't???? 

 

Thanks.

W.K.

 

VOTE this year!!!

 

What did you mean by that? Are you saying Uberti has went to one piece grip frames?

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29 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

Hawes I believe was the German company. I have one of those too. Yes some smaller companies have tried. Heritage only recently entered the "big bore" market. The big 3, Pietta, Uberti, and Ruger rule the single action revolver market. Colt had a good idea, but as usual priced themselves out of the "affordable" market.

Hawes were among the first German imports. All were made by JP Sauer and Son. I have several, and none have a transfer bar. The one I was trying to think of is Weirech (sp). I think they bought the tooling from Sauer, then later added a transfer bar. Heritage had a Big Bore back about 2002. It was the one made by a German company, perhaps Weirech again, and had a transfer bar. The current Heritage is made I think by Pietta. Finally, the Colt was not that expensive. It sold for around $600 when Rugers were $425 or so.  It didn't get pricey until they stopped making them and the collector market had a say.

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2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

I too, have an opinion.  I like my opinion.  I'll keep it mostly too myself.

 

Resume our normal programming.

 

Have you tried harrumphing?  I find it very cathartic.  And it feels good too. 

 

Harrumph Harrumph, Harrumph!

 

If you start to get angry you can also Rabble Rouse.  That's really fun.

 

Rabble Rabble Rabble!

 

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I've been called part of the Rabble.  I've also been called a lot worse.  One does, however, get a certain satisfaction by Rabble Rouse.  

 

Really glad you reminded me about Rabble Rousing.

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I don't mean to be argumentative (Yes, I do).  But unless Uberti has made a very recent change (Yesterday??) the Uberti Bisley still had and has had separate Trigger Guard and Backstrap.  I have never seen a one piece unit on ANY Uberti.

 

Yes, the Bisley has a different Main Spring.  The Bisley hammer and main spring are and have always been a "STIRRUP AND HOOK" design.

 

Yep.  Rabble Rousing is Fun!!  Thanks for reminding me Gambler  :)

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Quote

The one I was trying to think of is Weirech (sp). I think they bought the tooling from Sauer, then later added a transfer bar.

 

WEIHRAUCH

 

The Bounty Hunter SAA is still imported by EAA of Florida.

 

https://eaacorp.com/product-category/weihrauch-cat/?series=bounty_hunter

 

Haven't seen one in real life.  Just pictures.

 

Good luck, GJ

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13 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

WEIHRAUCH

 

The Bounty Hunter SAA is still imported by EAA of Florida.

 

https://eaacorp.com/product-category/weihrauch-cat/?series=bounty_hunter

 

Haven't seen one in real life.  Just pictures.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

I have a pair of FIE Arminius SAAs made by Weirauch (predecessors to the Bounty Hunters).

 

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6 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

WEIHRAUCH

 

The Bounty Hunter SAA is still imported by EAA of Florida.

 

https://eaacorp.com/product-category/weihrauch-cat/?series=bounty_hunter

 

Haven't seen one in real life.  Just pictures.

 

Good luck, GJ

Thanks for the correction. I was working from a faulty memory stick.;)

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13 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

I've been called part of the Rabble.  I've also been called a lot worse.  One does, however, get a certain satisfaction by Rabble Rouse.  

 

Really glad you reminded me about Rabble Rousing.

Coffin maker may be a curmudgeon and a rabble rouser but he knows what he's talking about! ;)

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Yep...there was a thread on the Wire, several months ago, and some even included pictures of their newer Bisley's, with the one piece grip frames. 

I did not know it either, until I saw the pictures.  I had come within a few days of selling mine, until I saw that. 

 

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  Yes, the mainspring has always had the "stirrup and hook" design, at the top of the hammer, but it used to be attached to the bottom part of the grip frame, and had a hole there on the bottom of the mainspring, and was attached like the single action cattlemen revolvers. 

  There is no hole in the bottom of the new mainspring, anymore, since it is attached in a different way to the now one piece grip frame. 

  The change in the mainspring is at the bottom of the mainspring, not the top. 

  But, bottom line, it is a different mainspring design, to fit the now one piece grip frame.

 

Again....see the "exploded drawing" of the Uberti Bisley, at the Cimarron website, to see this. 

 

There ya go.

 

W.K. 

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:wacko:  Well, I'll Be  :wacko:

 

Learned something new.  Uberti does have a one piece grip frame/trigger guard on their Bisley.  Have/had never seen one on a Uberti.  Of course, I retired as a CAS Gunsmith  a while back.  Lots of new stuff is happening.  As an interesting observation, the Main Spring for that one piece Bisley, is a cross between Bisley and Remington Main Springs.  Strange.  Don't know if Uberti contemplates that sort of change to the Peacemaker Replicas.  I can't see it as an improvement.  Of course, I don't see that STUPID retracting firing pin as an improvement either.

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My thoughts exactly, Colorado.  We are riding the same trail on this subject. 

I do really hope they don't make a change to a one piece grip frame for the cattleman single actions.  If someone was thinking about putting on a nice one-piece giraffe bone, or walrus tusk, or walnut grip, that would sorta knock that idea in the head, with a one piece grip frame.  I reckon you could take two halves and glue them together, but if you ever wanted to replace them, it would take a sledge hammer, and a chisel, and some choice Navy words, to get them off.   

I do have a couple of regular non-retractable Uberti firing pin hammers, that I purchased a good while back, along with some new old stock triggers, so If I do make a mistake and buy one of these things, I can yank it out and replace it with a more traditional set up. 

I did come within a few days of selling my Uberti Bisley, that I had bought about ten years ago.  When I found this out, about the one piece grip frame on the Bisley's, I changed my mind, quicker than a cat can lick his be-hind.  All of a sudden, I love that Bisley. 

 

Stay safe Pard. 

 

W.K.. 

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8 hours ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

At least it’s just the Bisley grip frame. Let’s be honest, bisley grips are plain ugly anyway

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.

 

58/75/90 Remingtons are even uglier and so are Ruger Blackhawk's. As are Henry Big Boys and Marlins.

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