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Cowboy Junky

Nit picking WTC

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Posted (edited)

I was asked a question by a fairly new shooter and I couldn't answer it. He was very sincere and trying to stage correctly not looking for an edge (pun intended) so here's what it is. 

 

You have a window sill and the "table top" for lack of a better word stops but the support it's nailed to is longer.  For example say most all of a 2X4 is exposed underneath where the plywood on top stops.

 

I know the ends results (IMO) are hardly worth talking about but I thought it would be good to know for the future in case I'm asked again. So what is the "edge" used in reference with the lever for proper rifle staging? 

Edited by Cowboy Junky

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To me... and I could be wrong, the 'edge' would be the edge of the actual place in which your long gun lies.

 

I don't think the supporting frame, whether it protrudes 1" or 6" would be considered the 'edge'.

 

..........Widder

 

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Quote

- All long guns initially staged on a horizontal surface shall be staged lying flat where at least the rear of the trigger guard is on the staging area

SHB p.17

 

ON...not "over"

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4 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

To me... and I could be wrong, the 'edge' would be the edge of the actual place in which your long gun lies.

 

I don't think the supporting frame, whether it protrudes 1" or 6" would be considered the 'edge'.

 

..........Widder

 

Sorry, but I disagree.

 

I would consider the frame part of the opening or "the actual place in which your long gun lies" and an edge applied around a table top would be considered part of the top of the table.

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Woops, too slow.

 

Thanks PW.

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If the staging table is confusing,  just ask the T. O. about your staging.  It isn't supposed to be a "gotcha" thing.  A good TO should watch and correct illegally staged guns and/or be able to make a call if asked what constitutes the "staging area" edge for a particular match sutuation. 

If you're the TO, make the determination sensibly to yourself.   If others might call it differently and the difference could be consequential, then get the info to the other posse leaders, as may be needed.   

But the best plan is to look over and fix the tables in advance, so they have only one rear "edge" and don't waste posse time.  JMHO. 

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I am assuming the support is lower than the table top? If so PW's reference is the support doesn't touch the gun, thus the gun is not lying on the support. So the edge is the edge of table. 

 

Silver Rings 

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Posted (edited)

Put fingers in lever.

Slide gun forward till it is stopped by the prop.

Remove fingers from lever.

 

Other method.

Look straight down through trigger guard.

If you see daylight, it needs to go forward.

 

NOTE - One should never pick nits. It's annoying to the nit.

 

Edited by Ace_of_Hearts
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14 hours ago, Silver Rings SASS # 27466 said:

I am assuming the support is lower than the table top? If so PW's reference is the support doesn't touch the gun, thus the gun is not lying on the support. So the edge is the edge of table. 

 

Silver Rings 

Yes it is about 3/8 of an inch. 

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13 hours ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

Put fingers in lever.

Slide gun forward till it is stopped by the prop.

Remove fingers from lever.

 

 

 

That's exactly why I posted this. If you do that you hit the support. If you stage it off the plywood top then the lever isn't "open" for you to reach into. I had him stage it off the plywood as PW said but I wasn't really sure. Seems like I guessed right.  

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

I can't picture this in my head.  Got a photo? 

No but that would help. Picture taking two wooden saw horses made with 2X4's then and putting 3/8 inch plywood across them to make a table. But you only put the plywood slightly less than half way on the saw horses to tack it down. So if you put the lever "as normal" you will hit the saw horse when you reach into the lever. If you slide the rifle back to the end of the 2X4 then the lever opening is not obstructed but the trigger opening is where we would normally have the lever opening compared to the plywood top. 

 

I think PW got it and I will go by that but I just wanted to make it clear. I have never seen this as most are flush or 90 deg. 

Edited by Cowboy Junky
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21 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

If the staging table is confusing,  just ask the T. O. about your staging.  It isn't supposed to be a "gotcha" thing.  A good TO should watch and correct illegally staged guns and/or be able to make a call if asked what constitutes the "staging area" edge for a particular match sutuation. 

If you're the TO, make the determination sensibly to yourself.   If others might call it differently and the difference could be consequential, then get the info to the other posse leaders, as may be needed.   

But the best plan is to look over and fix the tables in advance, so they have only one rear "edge" and don't waste posse time.  JMHO. 

Sounds good here but I was the TO and didn't know. I did make a call and moved on but it got me thinking. So in asking the others.....guess what? It was a toss up and could have gone either way so IMO I would rather ask than take a poll at the range because that leads to different situations for each posse rather than a standard answer for all.

 

Since I have been doing this a long time I like "knowing" the rules rather than making my own rules up as we go because that leads to confusion. Like I said in this case it probably makes little to no difference but if you miss the grip on the lever and bang your fingers on the wood below and miss a target or two at a Regional match or higher and I was the TO........I want to know that I let you stage you gun the way SASS says rather than guess..........that's all. 

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22 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

SHB p.17

 

ON...not "over"

This folks ^^^^^^. This should be the end of the discussion! Thanks PWB!;)

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1 hour ago, Cowboy Junky said:

No but that would help. Picture taking two wooden saw horses made with 2X4's then and putting 3/8 inch plywood across them to make a table. But you only put the plywood slightly less than half way on the saw horses to tack it down. So if you put the lever "as normal" you will hit the saw horse when you reach into the lever. If you slide the rifle back to the end of the 2X4 then the lever opening is not obstructed but the trigger opening is where we would normally have the lever opening compared to the plywood top. 

 

I think PW got it and I will go by that but I just wanted to make it clear. I have never seen this as most are flush or 90 deg. 

What were the stage instructions?

Stage in or on ??? What or where?

 

Generally the window sill, which you referenced in the first post, is considered part of the window.

 

Was this a window or a table?

Did the instructions say stage in window, opening, or something else?

All these things make a difference. That's why they need to be in the stage instructions.

 

It does sound like a prop needs working on.

 

 

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Thanks everyone I got it and just to double check things. It's a new club and I can recommend they fix it but I had to know the answer first. It's a window Ringer (and thanks) for trying to help. 

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