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Obi2winky

45 cal bullet advice for black powder

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Hello,

I'm new to this forum. I'm not a cowboy but I got a hold of a Uberti made SAA clone (very rare in MA since FFL can't sell them here) and about to get a Taylor's Winchester 1873 clone with an 20" barrel. Both 45 colt. I'm a black powder shooter and I'd like to shoot them in black powder as well, so I'm looking for a bullet that will have large lube grooves to keep the fouling soft and bullet heavy enough so that a compressed charged would reduce blowback. I did some lurking around here and I have three candidates. 

 

NOE 454-241

BigLube PRS 45 Cal 250 grain

BigLube DD-ROA FLAT  210 grain

 

It would be great if I can use the same bullet for smokeless 45 ACP 1911 as well. So I was leaning towards the 210 grain BigLube, but I wasn't sure if the weight difference was going to affect blowback.

 

Anyone have experience with any of them? thanks!

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Posted (edited)

I shoot 45 Colt blackpowder reloads, about close to 20,000 plus over the years in Rossi model 92’s, Uberti model 1860, 1866 and Roger Vaquero’s. I have never had in any of the firearms any lube starvation or leading using the Ideal 454190 bullets from a original Ideal mold or the Accurate mold clone of the 454190, 250gr bullet. My recommendation is buy the Accurate multi cavity mold....

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-250D-D.png

Edited by John Boy

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I have shot a lot of the 250 PRS big lube Bullets over the last few years in .45 Colt and Schofield; plenty of lube, never a problem. Never had any success running a RNFP in the .45 ACP (in 4 different guns), but I see people using the 200gr RNFP in Wild Bunch shoots all the time, so you might be able to do it, but it depends on the gun.

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I have had very good performance in 45 Colt rifles and revolvers with the Big Lube 250g bullets and SPG lube.

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I like the 200 gr J/P Big Lube from Springfield Slim.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

I like the 200 gr J/P Big Lube from Springfield Slim.  

 

This is the one for the rifle.   http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html

The profile works for the 1911 also.

I put a snug crimp on the straight wall and a full 2.2 cc dipper of 2F..No wad, no filler.  Keeps the blow back reduced.

BTW I also use the Missouri Bullet Company Cowboy #4 - Black Powder for pistol lengths.  Not as big a groove for the lube.  Same profile as shown below.
IMG_20190204_192926.jpg.6b848d3da2bf7a0cfe2164a9d8e2d9ee.thumb.jpg.96673faeb11a27fd11a431ae097bc2ee.jpg

JP_200.jpg

Edited by Trooper Ozzy
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I second John Boy's mould Choice, I cast them Soft 1-22 tin to Lead ...

And use them in Smokie loads Mostly but the Work with that Fad Powder as Well ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Posted (edited)

I use one bullet for .45 auto in 1911, Cowboy .45 Spl  (or .45 Colt) in revolvers, and .45 Colt cartridges in rifle.  For smokeless or BLACK POWDER (real stuff).  Homemade 50-50 lube in smokeless and a commercial BP lube when going smokey.

 

It's not PERFECT for being heavy enough to seal up the .45 Colt to prevent ALL blowback, but it does pretty well with a full case of BP.

 

Which one?   The Accurate mold 45-200E which is a truncated cone design with a large lube groove.  Not a grease canyon, but enough for a good lube to keep the rifle running for 6 stages.  See design below.

 

Runs PERFECTLY in a modern-throat 1911 gun at Wild Bunch power factor.   Very accurate, even at 100 and 200 yards from rifle.   Cast it at Brinnell 9 hardness for smokeless or a 1-30 mix for BP, and it's easy to roll (or taper) crimp right into the driving band.

 

Has the flat nose that is pretty necessary in a lever rifle. 

 

Beware of choosing a 250 grain bullet design and trying to make that run in the 1911.   The case usually bulges at the base of that long a slug when you get the nose short enough to feed out of magazine and into the short-throated chamber that a 1911 has!    A 230 grain bullet is just about the max weight/length that will be 100% reliable.

 

 

 

NOW, the rifle chambering of choice for BP has got to be a .44-40 (or .38-40).   If you are really going to be a BP or substitute shooter, and you want to keep cleaning to "just the barrel" most of the time - you would choose a .44-40 rifle!

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

45-200e mold.jpg

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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.38 WCF. is the Very best Round for keeping out Blowback !!!

After Shoot FCD for 18 months I decided to remove the side plate on my 66 , took of one side looked ... Put it back on, good to go !!!

I will Check again in another year or two, and this next time put in new lube if it needs it or Not...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Thank you all for the info!

 

Through my research I did read about the advantage of the slightly bottle-necked cartridges. And considering historical aspects, I would have much preferred the 44/40. The reason I specifically mentioned 45 colt is because that's what my SAA clone is in. Many might not be aware, but in MA we have some weird laws. FFLs in MA cannot sell or transfer you a pistol/revolver unless its specifically mentioned in the MA approved firearms list. This does not make unlisted pistols/revolvers illegal though. The only SAA clones currently on the list are Ruger Vaqueros and Blackhawks, of which only 44/40 is approved only in Blackhawks. The only way around this is through personal transfers from people who moved into the state with firearms not listed.  So when I saw an Uberti SAA clone for sale locally I jumped on it. I got it through historical interests, not to use it in matches, so the 4 clicks and a more correct rear sight was important to me. So unless someone in MA wants to trade with me their 44/40 SAA clone, I have to stick with 45 colt for now.

 

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Larger heavy bullets and a full case of powder will mitigate Blow-By.  Probably won't eliminate it.  If you want your 45 Colt rifle to run clean, Anneal your 45 Colt cases.  Annealed cases will expand enough to seal the chamber.  The rifle will then run as clean as 44-40 and 38-40 rifles.  It's kind of a groan to anneal but well worth the effort.

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I get everything from Buffalo Arms.

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Posted (edited)

Howdy from a fellow denizen of the Commonwealth of MASS.

 

You might look into getting a Curio and Relic license from the BATF, which will open up more possibilities for firearms not on 'the list'. PM me if you want to know more about that.

 

Although the J/P 200 is an excellent Big Lube bullet, designed by a master, for 45 Colt I use the PRS 250 grain bullet exclusively in my 45 Colt Black Powder loads. I will add, I only shoot these in my revolvers, my rifles are all either 44-40 or 38-40. Here is what goes into my 45 Colt Black Powder loads.

 

poqJoPc2j

 

 

 

 

I actually load them on my Hornady Lock & Load AP progressive press.

 

pmbAkYX3j

 

 

 

 

My loads make plenty of smoke, and yes, that is a 2nd Gen Colt. All 2nd Gen Colts are Curios and Relics.

 

pojtKiHhj

 

 

 

 

Regarding your rifle I am not much help, because as I stated earlier all my CAS rifles are chambered for either 44-40 or 38-40. By the way, it is not the shape of these bottleneck cartridges that makes them better suited for Black Powder, it is the fact that the brass at the case mouth is much thinner than the brass of other cartridges such as 45 Colt.  Thinner brass means the case expands better at the relatively low pressure generated by Black Powder. This tends to seal most of the fouling in the bore, with very little blowing by into the mechanism of the rifle. So for a 45 Colt rifle and Black Powder I suggest you use a heavy bullet, such as the PRS 250, which will present more resistance to moving than a lighter bullet. More resistance to moving will cause higher pressure, causing the thicker case of 45 Colt to expand better to seal the chamber than a lighter bullet will.

Edited by Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283
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5 hours ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

Howdy from a fellow denizen of the Commonwealth of MASS.

 

You might look into getting a Curio and Relic license from the BATF, which will open up more possibilities for firearms not on 'the list'. PM me if you want to know more about that.

 

 

I actually did get a C&R last year. My interests are quite diverse and that's how I got my Luger P08 :) A C&R is a lovely thing to have. It practically pays for itself!

 

Do you shoot at Harvard Sportsman? 

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Yes.

 

Whenever they start up again I will probably be there. But first I will have to load up a bunch of ammo.

 

By the way, if you find a C&R (older than 50 years) Colt you can buy it on your C&R. But you do have to register it with the State.

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On 4/29/2020 at 9:38 PM, Obi2winky said:

if only they weren't so darn pricey!

 

What? C&R colts?

 

Of course they are pricey. What do you expect?

 

They are 50 years old.

 

They are not being made right now, not C&R Colts.

 

The law of supply and demand.

 

Something is in high demand, it is expensive.

 

By the way, that 2nd Gen Colt in the photo above was quite a deal. $680 out the door. But that was almost 20 years ago.

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oh I understand. It just that I don't want it badly enough to pay that much for it. perhaps one day. For now, I'm happy with the clone I have :)

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I forgot to add, I'm also a fan of the J/P 200 for .45s

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3 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

I forgot to add, I'm also a fan of the J/P 200 for .45s

Do you also use black powder as well? 

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I certainly do.  I shoot BP and APP (Sub).

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Obi2Winky: Most any 45 bullet will work well enough in a pistol as long as it is soft enough lead and has some softer BP lube on it. Rifles can be more picky due to lube starvation. You can always use some sort of lube cookie in them though, and it will help. In my BP guns I tend to prefer larger lube capacity bullets. But I do use the 454190 that John Boy talks about, but I only use it in my 1911 when I shoot it with BP.  I find the heavier bullet helps with getting the slide to go all the way back. I tried some lighter bullets but they did not work 100%, as the slide did not go all the way to the rear and the brass sometimes did not eject properly. The thinner 45acp brass seals pretty darn well, and the guns gets a lot less dirty than you would expect. It helps to have an old sloppy gun with softer springs, though. Mine was made in 1916.

WB 1911.jpg

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If you are casting your own 45 cal rnfp bullets that work well with black powder they should work in a 1911. If you buy black powder lubed bullets at a higher cost you can get regular bullets much cheaper for the 1911.

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