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Dusty Boots

Shiloh Sharps

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Posted (edited)

I am considering purchasing a used Shiloh Sharps in a 45-70. I know that they are presently manufactured in Big Timber MT since the early 1990s. Prior to that they were manufactured in Farmington NY.  I read that Shiloh Sharps have an excellent reputation, does that apply to rifles manufactured in Farmington also. The reason I ask is because I understand that the move to Big Sky was a result of a change in ownership.  Did the excellent reputation start with the Farmington rifles or began since the move to Big Sky?

Edited by Dusty Boots

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Mine is made in Big Timber... And it is excellent.  Doubt you will hear anyone say otherwise. 

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Mine is from Montana, exceptional quality!

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Most Shiloh owners I believe will say that the rifle has continued to improve with the move to Montana. The current owners are the Bryant family and guns made under their ownership will begin with a B in the serial number. There is a lot of discussion that firearms made prior to the "B" series may have a chamber that was cut to use paper patch bullets. I am by no means an expert of the Sharps but I do recall that many people will chose to buy a Shiloh with the B series. I have two that were made prior to the change in ownership, both are quality rifles and they shoot very well. I do believe that the guns made now are among the best and there is a warranty for a "lifetime" to original owners. I have toured the company plant twice and am very impressed with the rifles and the staff at Shiloh. The biggest issue with the Shiloh is once you buy one you will soon realize that you "want" more. The are great fun to shoot!

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Bryan family rifles are first rate but those made previously vary somewhat in fit and finish so examine carefully.  Also, there can be extras that run the price way up so compare the characteristics of your proposed buy with that it needed to obtain a new one.   That said, a plain jane rifle would likely have a wait time of at least one year....fancied up longer.  My last one was 18 months but it had many extras

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Hello Dusty.  I have two Shiloh's.  Both were made in Big Timber.  The first one is a Wolfgang Droege rifle and the second is a Bryan rifle.  Both are excellent.  In fact, I've never seen a Shiloh Sharps that was anything other than excellent.  Although I do not own a Farmingdale rifle myself, from what I've seen and heard from those that do, I doubt you would be disappointed with a Farmingdale gun.

 

TR

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Go with the Big Timber made Shiloh's. 

Look at a Shiloh #1 with 30 hvy bbl.

If this is going to be a target rifle...

For sights go with a MVA L/R Buffalo Soule and a #113 front.

Loading real BP is a whole new world. ;)

OLG 

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i do not think you will ever regret this as a choice , they are marvelous rifles 

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I have a Farmington rifle and I had a BT rifle, like the one OLG has.The guy I got it from asked me if I wanted to sell it, so I did. The Farmington rifle is a lighter, shorter barrel but it shoots every bit as good as the other, In always used bp and a 500 gr bullet. Mine is a low 1400 serial number, I did call them to ask about it but they lost the records in a fire as I recall. I have had it since about 1983. Don't scrimp on the sights!

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I use a C. Sharps .50-140. Many friends use Big Timber Shiloh Sharps, mostly in.45-90. I have never heard a bad word about either outfit. Farmingdale Sharps are rarely seenin BPCR matches. However, I have never heard a complaint about one.

 

Keep in mind that our two Montana Sharps gun makers are top quality companies and are dedicated to constantly improving their rifles. That fact makes me quite happy.  ;)

 

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I had a Farmington Paper cutter Sharps in the early 80's. Excellent gun , a specific repro of the Civil War era Sharps.  I've also had a BT Sharps (for 20 years) in 45-70.  Also a superb rifle.  The C. Sharps rifles are great too. 

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The Farmington guns are excellent, just not as many of them around.  I would do my due diligence and make sure it’s in good shape, but would not pass on it because it’s a Farmington.  There were some variations made in Farmington that you don’t see as often in the Montana guns.  A friend has a very nice three band paper cartridge Sharps that I think is a Farmington gun and I have seen quite a few Farmington cartridge guns.  I have two Montana made cartridge sharps  and a Garret paper cartridge carbine.  

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Shiloh Sharps and C Sharps are both built in Big Timber, Montana.  Both build excellent rifles.  Some later Farmington rifles used Badger barrels.  I have several C Sharps with Badger barrels.  Excellent shooters.  I sold my Shiloh Sharps years ago.   There was a break up between Wolfgang Droege, former owner of Shiloh Sharps and John Schoffstall, current president of C Sharps.  My understanding is the Bryant brothers bought Shiloh from Wolfgang and the company is currently for sale.  Another difference is that Shiloh builds their own barrels. There is a Shiloh forum with a discussion of the Farmington rifles including dates with serial no.s.  I had the opportunity to shoot a Farmington Business Rifle years ago which is the reason I ordered rifles from both companies at the NRA Gun Show in Phoenix.  What a treat.  This was the era of the 5 year wait.  I took 5 years from both companies before I received mine.  Had time to save enough money to purchase them.     

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There are absolutely no barrels superior to Badger Barrels.

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1 hour ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

There are absolutely no barrels superior to Badger Barrels.

 

Ya there is. Starting with Shiloh Sharps made barrels. ;)

OLG 

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Posted (edited)

Grits - it's a toss up

Have a Badger 45-70 on  my CPA and Homer doesn't stand a chance with PJ Creedmoor bullets

Edited by John Boy
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OLG has his opinion about Shiloh and Badger barrels and I and the rest of the rifle shooting world has ours!!!  ;)

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Five year wait !!??!! For a Shiloh Sharps ??

As I sit here, I think I could never wait 5 years for anything.

i hope the Lord keeps me here at least five more years but.....

hell, in 1981 I could have put my name on the waiting list for Masters Tickets, but the wait was five years.

I could have had tickets for the past 33 years.

well, this year of the pandemic is the only year that the masters ticket bet paid off.

i better go place my gun order !  LOL

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I have a Farmingdale version. Shoots great, but now have piched nerve in neck. Even with BP liads not good for neck. 

It is a fun gun to shoot, I use 510 grain bullets., really rings the targets. 

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The five year wait from both plants was due the  Quickly Down Under movie. Everybody, or almost everybody, had to have one.  Tom Selleck shot a Shiloh Sharps in the movie.  Most remember what happened to the Smith and Wesson Model 29 popularity after the Dirty Harry.     

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Moot cause Badger is no more and there are plenty of Shilohs in the top shooters  that attest to their quality.  I'd imagine they might not be better but ever bit as good.  Krieger has pretty much taken over the custom barrel arena but unless you're trying to milk everything in competition they don't shoot better enough to warrant for the average guy/girl.  I bet Kirk would bet good money on his barrels being better or at least to equal to any.  All one has to to get a copy of Blackpowder Cartridge News and take a gander at the winners equipment list.  C. Sharps has a few Badgers left over but main'y use Green Mountain.

 

My last Shiloh (2012 ) took nearly two years but there were a lot of extras involved and that takes time.  I understand that about 15 months is the norm now.  I just received a new C. Sharps 44-90 Straight and it is every bit the quality of an equivalent Shiloh....that took less than a year!!!  Looks like it will be a real shooter once all this brass is fireformed.

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On 4/25/2020 at 1:06 AM, Kirk James said:

There was a break up between Wolfgang Droege, former owner of Shiloh Sharps and John Schoffstall, current president of C Sharps.  My understanding is the Bryant brothers bought Shiloh from Wolfgang and the company is currently for sale.  There is a Shiloh forum with a discussion of the Farmington rifles including dates with serial no.s.

Which occurred AFTER the move to Big Timber.  And you would be correct in that understanding.    

 

As with anything, all is subject to change.  And, as with ANY used firearm, inspection of the specific article is FAR more important than what anyone else's experiences have been with different but similar articles.   Anyone that sez different is only fooling themselves.  Don't let them fool you also!

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Griff said:

Which occurred AFTER the move to Big Timber.  And you would be correct in that understanding.    

 

As with anything, all is subject to change.  And, as with ANY used firearm, inspection of the specific article is FAR more important than what anyone else's experiences have been with different but similar articles.   Anyone that sez different is only fooling themselves.  Don't let them fool you also!

 

 

Not trying to fool anyone but Yep!  You never know from strangers.  The chamber could be ringed or barrel bulges unless you know what to look for.  Thats to start with.

Edited by Yellowhouse Sam # 25171

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I have two Shiloh Sharps rifles.  One I got new from Shiloh,  The other one I bought used, and it is an older model made in Farmingdale.  Both are very high quality.  The one I bought new from Shiloh has upgraded wood on it, and the other one looks like it is not upgraded.  But...the wood to metal fit is excellent on both, and the workmanship is excellent on both.  Like anything else, if you buy a used one, made in Farmingdale, it will depend on how it was treated by the previous owner(s).  But, from my experience, since I do own both, you can't go wrong with an older model, if it was taken care of.  Probably be best to look over a used one, in person, if you can, or get lots of clear, close-up photographs.  I am sure you know that. But...my opinion, based on what I have, is: both are very high quality rifles, and as such, very worthy to pass down to your heirs.  They are instant collectors items/heirlooms, and best of all, they are made in the good ole U.S. of A.! Savvy?

 

My Two Bits.

W.K.

 

 

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Hey OLG,

What caliber do you recommend, and why?

i think I may buy one too, now that my ROA collection is complete.

what other features do you recommend?

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You talk about Green Mountain barrels ... all the ‘el cheapo’ H&R 45-70 38-55 barrels are Green Mountain. This rig was my first BPCR’s and they are as accurate as any of the barrels on the market. First range test with the 45-70, at 600 yds put a 5” x 7” five shot group on the target in the 7 ring. Three holes in the group could have been covered with a silver dollar. 
And both calibers have put lead splotches on Homer at 1000yds

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Posted (edited)
On 4/23/2020 at 11:16 AM, Marshal Fire, SASS 10064 said:

Most Shiloh owners I believe will say that the rifle has continued to improve with the move to Montana. The current owners are the Bryant family and guns made under their ownership will begin with a B in the serial number. There is a lot of discussion that firearms made prior to the "B" series may have a chamber that was cut to use paper patch bullets. I am by no means an expert of the Sharps but I do recall that many people will chose to buy a Shiloh with the B series. I have two that were made prior to the change in ownership, both are quality rifles and they shoot very well. I do believe that the guns made now are among the best and there is a warranty for a "lifetime" to original owners. I have toured the company plant twice and am very impressed with the rifles and the staff at Shiloh. The biggest issue with the Shiloh is once you buy one you will soon realize that you "want" more. The are great fun to shoot!

The biggest misnomer in Shiloh rifles was he so called Paper Patch Chamber. a Chamber that had a freebore. That was not a Paper patch chamber. It was IIRC due to the popularity of Grease grove bullets and the need to seat them out farther to gain case capacity on the like of the 45-70 and possibly the 45-90
Paper patch bullets should be (under all but the most extreme circumstances) patched to .001" under bore diameter and no freebore is needed. That so called paper patch chamber was just the opposite. When a paper patched bullet is fired in a freebore chamber the bullet obsturates filling the freebore and will strip the paper jacket from the bullet and now you have an ungreased, ungroved pure lead bullet mucking up the work and each subsequent round just makes it worse. How ever that design got mixed up in the rifles is of no consequence because that was early NY guns. a few guys in the BPCR competitions petitioned Wolfgang to change the chambers. I believe the Montana guns never have a freebored chamber. But I'm not 100% sure. 

I'm sure OLG knows far more about this than I do. I've just been doing a lot of reading lately and three reloading manuals in have say that a freebored 45 Black powder chamber is not a paper patch chamber. 

I have a Shiloh in 45-110 and there is no free bore but that stands to reason. It's about a month old at this point. 

Edited by Matthew McCrae

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I have a Shilo Sharps #3 Sporting Rifle from Big Timber, excellent quality, I just wish I could shoot good enough past 500 yds to make it proud of me!

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Posted (edited)
On 4/26/2020 at 9:09 PM, T-Square said:

Hey OLG,

What caliber do you recommend, and why?

i think I may buy one too, now that my ROA collection is complete.

what other features do you recommend?

 

SORRY, I just now saw your post  :blush:

Go with .45-70 or .45-90.

A Shiloh #1 with 30" hvy bbl and MVA Buffalo Soule sight on the rear and a MVA #113 for the front.

Best of luck:excl:

OLG 

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz
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