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Mustang Gregg

Hogdon 777 in SASS cartridges [air space or filler?]

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H777 shooters:

 

I am loading some .44's for our upcoming 2020 matches (Well, I hope).

And I have been told that there cannot be any airspace in my cartridges and must be slightly compressed.

Mine have about 0.125" or more air space from the base of the bullets. 

Notice that I am not posting any powder weights on the Wire.

Anyway, they are running about 800 FPS with no airspace.

With Hogdon's 777 FFFg, is it dangerous or not? :huh:

 

Much obliged,

Mustang Gregg

Dabbling in the smoky stuff again

 

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16 minutes ago, Mustang Gregg said:

Notice that I am not posting any powder weights on the Wire.

 

That ^ has been allowed now for about a year!   If you feel you have accurate numbers, you may post them.

Good luck, GJ

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Hodgdon says the cases should be filled to just come into contact with the base of the bullet with NO compression. It says a single card wad approximately .030 can be used but no other wads or fillers should be used. I loaded some years ago in .38 and filled the case until the bullet just touched it. They worked fine in a rifle but were a little hotter than what I wanted in a pistol. I trimmed down some cases to use in the pistols to just a little shorter than a .38 Long Colt and filled them till the bullet just touched the powder. They worked great.

 

Thanks

Randy

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21 minutes ago, Mustang Gregg said:

H777 shooters:

 

 

With Hogdon's 777 FFFg, is it dangerous or not? :huh:

 

Much obliged,

Mustang Gregg

Dabbling in the smoky stuff again

 

 

From Hodgdon web site

 

Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads. *See WARNINGS below.

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I haven't been able to find that info on any Hogdon lit or the internet so far. 

THANK YOU, FELLERS!!!!

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35 minutes ago, Mustang Gregg said:

I haven't been able to find that info on any Hogdon lit or the internet so far. 

THANK YOU, FELLERS!!!!

 

Hodgdon website, click on Resources then Reference Data

 

https://www.hodgdon.com/resources/data-sheets/

 

Scroll down to the 777 data.

 

Also reduced loads for H4895, Trailboss, and Cowboy Action data

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I load Triple 7 FFg in .38 special and add a little bit of old crushed walnut tumber media to bring the level up to the level of the bottom of the bullet, NO COMPRESSION.  Some people will use grits or other stuff in place of the old tumbler media although I don't wanna get hungry for breakfast when I shoot so I just the tumbler media :lol:

 

There are those that say just load it to the bottom of the bullet and with real BP I'd say that was pretty good advice.  However Triple 7 is a little bit hotter than real BP and I found the felt recoil a lot more than necessary when I shot my first .38 special rounds with a full case of Triple 777.  I have no problem meeting the smoke standard with my loads.

 

Since you are loading .44s you'll need to find the amount of Triple 7 that meets the smoke standard and is comfortable to shoot, then you can use filler as necessary.

 

Kajun

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I leave the air space 10.5 gr. of 777 and 105 bullet.  Works every time.

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15 minutes ago, twelve mile REB said:

I leave the air space 10.5 gr. of 777 and 105 bullet.  Works every time.

What caliber?

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Sorry 38spec

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5 hours ago, Mustang Gregg said:

I haven't been able to find that info on any Hogdon lit or the internet so far. 

THANK YOU, FELLERS!!!!

I have a hard copy, load manual is where I found it.

 

Randy

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When I was shooting 777 in my 45 colts ... I used a 1.36cc dump (disk hole / actual weight 14,23gr ) ... I think if I really filled it up (w/ a bullet seated) I would have been in the 2.0-2.2cc range .... BUT ... 

The load I used w/ a 200gr (Bear Creek) bullet went  860fps in a 20 inch barrel carbine.

 

My "other" (original) load w/ a 200gr bullet was a 1.46cc dump (actual weight 15.10gr) and that went 950fps in the same gun. 

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I don't remember who did this test but a person on the wire loaded 777 and filler in a 38 spl case.  tested some of them after about a week and pressures seemed to be normal.   He then tested a batch each week after and at some point the pressures went through the roof.   The company said the inert media in the case soaks up the oils in the powder and makes it unstable.  Bullett 19707

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I used to use 777 in my 45s with 250 grain bullets. BOOM!!!!!!!! Kinda hot, but FUN.

 

I then went to APP for more "manageable" loads. APP is a great choice for a BP sub.

 

Either 777 or APP can be used with bullets lubed for smokeless powders. Kinda handy.

 

Now I use FFg or FFFg black powder and prefer it to the subs.

 

Slight compression is what I use on all them powders, no air space.

 

Enjoy!

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1 hour ago, Bullett Sass 19707 said:

I don't remember who did this test but a person on the wire loaded 777 and filler in a 38 spl case.  tested some of them after about a week and pressures seemed to be normal.   He then tested a batch each week after and at some point the pressures went through the roof.   The company said the inert media in the case soaks up the oils in the powder and makes it unstable.  Bullett 19707

 

You may be correct, although I don't recall that..  Or possibly you are thinking of Jabez Cowboy testing light Clays loads with grits filler, and the pressures spiked over time.

 

Captain Baylor used to use caulk backer rod as a filler for 777.

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8 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

You may be correct, although I don't recall that..  Or possibly you are thinking of Jabez Cowboy testing light Clays loads with grits filler, and the pressures spiked over time.

 

Captain Baylor used to use caulk backer rod as a filler for 777.

I use Captain Baylor's caulk backer rod filler with 777.  Have for years with very consistent results in my .44-40.
http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.2.html 

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Gregg, I have APP available if you want a bottle to try.  I still have a case for sale from my purchase last year.  APP is a no brainer for trying BP subs.  $15/bottle.  Let me know the next time you plan to come through Auburn.  We’ll practice social distancing of course. :D

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19 hours ago, Tucker McNeely said:

Gregg, I have APP available if you want a bottle to try.  I still have a case for sale from my purchase last year.  APP is a no brainer for trying BP subs.  $15/bottle.  Let me know the next time you plan to come through Auburn.  We’ll practice social distancing of course. :D

Tucker:

 

Yes, APP is a very easy changeover for a smokeless shooter to make.

I used to use APP for several shoots per year (2003 to 2010).  But then it got harder to find.

So I gave up on it and went to 100% Win 231/HP38 in our .44's revolvers and rifles.

.  

APP is higher priced than H777 for me

And now I have a good load for H777 FFFg set up. 

I will use H777 FFg in my shotshells.

 

Muchas gracias,

Mustang

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Another cheap and easy way to take up the space. Pick up some 3/8 inch caulking filler cut them about a 1/4" long they fit and compress perfectly. A old time black powder shooter told me this and i have been using it for years no issues. 

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On 4/21/2020 at 11:29 AM, Tucker McNeely said:

Gregg, I have APP available if you want a bottle to try.  I still have a case for sale from my purchase last year.  APP is a no brainer for trying BP subs.  $15/bottle.  Let me know the next time you plan to come through Auburn.  We’ll practice social distancing of course. :D

Tucker,

 

I'll take a couple of those bottles of APP off your hands if'n I ever get to shoot with you again.

 

Dan

 

 

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5 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

Tucker,

 

I'll take a couple of those bottles of APP off your hands if'n I ever get to shoot with you again.

 

Dan

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

Tucker,

 

I'll take a couple of those bottles of APP off your hands if'n I ever get to shoot with you again.

 

Dan

 

 

I still have the four bottles you asked for last year separate from the others for you until you call off the order.  We haven’t been able to plan a shoot together since last April.  I have outage staring 9/26.  So unless the virus moves outage to November or December I probably will get screwed this year also.  May have to work in a third party.  I may have to pay Dad a courier fee to bring to PCC or Parker.

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