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Ninety Caliber Al, 50218

Cowboys and the AR15

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3 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

I went a little different route with a PCC in 9MM.  They are fun to plink with and good for home defense.  Now some Cowboy matches have a PCC side steel match.  If I get another one it'll either be 5.56 or maybe .45 ACP, decisions decisions.

I've been wanting a 9mm PCC for a long time.  If you don't mind, what brand / model do you have?  How does it shoot?  Any problems?

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51 minutes ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

Just pull the trigger, hit the target, repeat!

 

 

You say that as though it's a bad thing. :lol:

 

I have one that's entirely impractical.  It's a Wilson Combat Super Sniper with a 20" bull barrel.  It'll reach out and touch pretty much anything the 223 is capable or reaching.  As big and heavy as it is I won't be carrying it too far though.  I really want to get a more practical model to add to the collection but there always seems to be something more important to spend my $$$ on. 

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Personally I think all of these modern sporting rifles are just ugly looking.  I like polished blue steel and walnut.  But, coming from law enforcement I carried a Colt AR M4 for many years and on more than one occasion it did save my bacon.  They have a purpose, are easy to shoot and the market is well saturated with them.  If it is your flavor, go for it.  Buy one, personally I'm old school and  prefer old school type guns.  Lever guns, single actions and 1911's.  In my day we had great reliability with the rifles made by Colt and Bushmaster.  But given today's market, I'd look at the Rugers, Smith and Sig.  If your'e going to take the plunge, bolt on a quality red dot sights with back up fold down sights.  Just my opinion.

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I'm shooting more three gun lately so needed to get a few.  Dont personally care for them but i can run them. It's nice to be able to swap barrels,cal so easy,   I like the durability ak platform better

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I never had much interest in the black guns, then a couple of years ago Palmetto State Armory had a big Christmas sale.  I ordered a lower build kit & a 5.56 upper for way less than I would have spent on a finished gun (as I recall, it was less than $300 shipped) & had a blast building the lower!  Since then I have built 2 more, 1 is a pistol in 300 AAC & the other is an A2-style with fixed stock, round forend & carrying handle in 7.62x39.  All 3 shoot great but don't get shot very often.  I also have an upper in 350 Legend that needs a lower so there is a project in waiting.  There is also an AR-10 in 308 in my future plans.

 

For what it's worth, I think one of them (probably the 300 AAC) would end up being my SHTF gun, should the S ever HTF.

 

Holler

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37 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

I've been wanting a 9mm PCC for a long time.  If you don't mind, what brand / model do you have?  How does it shoot?  Any problems?

PM sent

kR

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

Like some of the above, I have little interest in these but I recently bought one "on principle", e.g. a certain political party doesn't want me to have one.

 

Took it out to sight it in. Fired a number of rounds at about 75 yards and told my shooting buddy "this thing is boring to shoot". Just pull the trigger, hit the target, repeat!

 

I have much more fun shooting Cowboy guns and older military firearms; Garands, M1 carbines, 03's, Krag, etc.

 

That being said, I do take it out occasionally and enjoy shooting it - for a little bit.

Guns are much more fun to shoot when there is someone to shoot with, or an immediate purpose for shooting them.  If you use them for hunting or to engage in a sport, there is purpose.   I always enjoy practicing with my CAS guns and timer, because there is (hopefully at least) one or more matches every month to prepare for.  Every practice stage is a challenge.  I used to enjoy working on, sighting, and practicing with my hunting rifles, back when I used to hunt.  But it's hard for me to get real excited about shooting a black rifle.  I tried Three Gun.  It didn't do much for me, and it's kind of boring prepping for an apocalypse that I hope won't ever happen.  So another "Safe Queen" is coronated and a heck of a lot of brass gets indefinitely stored.    

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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Fun to shoot , a pain to reload for,  have had a few.  - It's Barbie for men  - with all the accessorizing you can do :).   

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59 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

I've been wanting a 9mm PCC for a long time.  If you don't mind, what brand / model do you have?  How does it shoot?  Any problems?

 

20 minutes ago, Kid Rich said:

PM sent

kR

 

I wanted last round bolt hold open (LRBHO) which a lot of them don't have.  I looked around and found that most of the manufacturers outsource the lowers to Anderson MFG. and have their name put on it.  So I decided to get a basic model and bought it direct from Anderson.  If you're retired Military or LEO they offer a discount, I went to my LGS and he told me to order it through them he couldn't match the price even with FFL fees.  It's not fancy but it's rock solid and I've never had a FTF or FTE.  It uses Glock and Glock compatible magazines so they are easy to get and cheap.  I added a red dot and sling so I can move around.  It's so much fun to shoot and I already reload the ammo.  If you want some pics just PM me. 

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2 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

 

 

I wanted last round bolt hold open (LRBHO) which a lot of them don't have.  I looked around and found that most of the manufacturers outsource the lowers to Anderson MFG. and have their name put on it.  So I decided to get a basic model and bought it direct from Anderson.  If you're retired Military or LEO they offer a discount, I went to my LGS and he told me to order it through them he couldn't match the price even with FFL fees.  It's not fancy but it's rock solid and I've never had a FTF or FTE.  It uses Glock and Glock compatible magazines so they are easy to get and cheap.  I added a red dot and sling so I can move around.  It's so much fun to shoot and I already reload the ammo.  If you want some pics just PM me. 

 

Another way to accomplish this is to get a maxwell adapter for your ar-15 lower like this one from KAK https://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/upper-parts/barrels/9mm/ar15-9mm-mag-adaptor it uses Colt style mags. I had to tweak it a tad when I first got it but it runs flawless now.  Just add a 9mm upper and you're good to go.

 

I also have a dedicated Foxtrot Mike 9mm lower that takes glock mags and has last touch hold open built in.

 

I like them both.

 

My next PCC will be 45ACP.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

CA is just too iffy a place these days for owning black rifles.  Someday I hope all  that changes. 

 

Me too!

Gender change????

 

Texas Lizard

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18 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Own a couple in the current M4 configuration. 

Also have a Knights SR-25 IN .308.

Lots of fun....

OLG 

 

Did you acquire these after you escaped the PRK?

If you want more fun replace one of the triggers with a Fostech ECHO II binary trigger.  In fun, "ECHO", mode it delivers accurate double taps.  The difficulty is preventing it from operating like a bump stock equipped gun.  You need to firmly grip the hand guard & put forward pressure in hand guard.   Otherwise you can't release trigger pressure fast enough to prevent bumpfire.  The 1st time I tried ECHO mode I had a Magpul 60 round drum magazine in the gun.  I had emptied 30+ before I got my finger off the trigger.  I bought one right after the Las Vegas incident when there was a lot of talk of banning devices that increase the cyclic rate of firearms.  At that time the Fosetech triggers were listed for over 150% of mfg's suggested list price except by Brownell's.  I was lucky Brownell's was selling them for list & because, the back order wait was much longer than expected; so, they reduced invoice price by $75 for customers who didn't want to cancel their order.  The trigger cost more money than the rifle I installed it in.  My only con is the dance you have to do to install the rear takedown pin.  For the locking lever to clear the rear of the bolt carrier.  With hammer cocked, select ECHO mode, pull & hold the trigger, still holding trigger to rear cock the hammer, close the upper onto lower, push take down pin in.   Fostech's written & video instructions didn't help the 1st time.  I had to talk to Brownell's gunsmith who was familiar with the Fostech trigger.  Brownell's  people provide GREAT service.

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41 minutes ago, Texas Lizard said:

Gender change????

 

Texas Lizard

Not only no, but HELL NO.

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CMC triggers made in Texas are excellent, drop right in; just in case someone is building :D

 

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1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Not only no, but HELL NO.

To much lock down time...Need to give someone a bad time....

 

Texas Lizard

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35 minutes ago, J.D. Daily said:

Did you acquire these after you escaped the PRK?

 

I don't recall ^_^

OLG 

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Posted (edited)

Each person is different (dah).  Their desires, potential needs, abilities, pocket book all differ.  The risk with questions such as this is you begin to focus on the opinions of others rather than what ultimately matters to you.  But since you asked,  here is my opinion. 

 

I have a few AR 10s, AR 15s and AKs.  I enjoy learning how things work.  I like building my own toys.  Understanding how the gun balances the various operating parts - the location of the gas port, the weight of the buffer - I find such things interesting and enjoy the satisfaction of creating something and knowing (sort of) how to fix it.

 

The ARs are much easier to build than the AKs.  The advantage of AR is it is a platform, a lego firearm system.  With an AR 15 you have a choice of nine different calibers I can think of, different barrel lengths, different stocks and you can hang a number of accessories on them very easily.

 

I have built them for myself, my wife, brother, niece, grandson, daughter, son-in-law and a few friends.  Each was different.  We would talk for an hour before I would start, learning what they wanted.  Some cost under $400 and a few over $2000.  Like I mentioned, we are all different.

 

If you are thinking to be prepared for the EOTWAWKI an AR 15 with a .556 upper offers probably the best option for ammo would be more plentiful than other cartridges.  For home defense an upper in 300 Blackout offers ballistics very similar to a 45 ACP and can be silenced effectively.  For distance and all round shooting I prefer the 6.5 Grendel.

 

If you opt for an AR 15 and want it only for plinking a polymer receiver made in the last five years (reinforced with metal) is fine.  If you want something that will survive hard handling and remain reliable, you will want a forged aluminum receiver.

 

AR 10s have a larger receiver to accomdate the greater length and power of the cartridges used.  Unlike the AR 15, which has a basic universally accepted design, the AR 10 from different manufacturers will have different designs and a DPMS will not mate with an upper or lower from some other manufacturers.  Like the AR 15, the AR 10 offers the choice of multiple cartridges by switching the upper receiver.  The two most popular are the 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

Not mention by anyone is a variation I like - the AR 180 you can get from Brownells as the BRN 180.  It has a different operating system than the AR 15 (one I like better), allows a folding stock, uses an AR 15 lower, but does not (yet) come in the variety of calibers.

 

AKs are good guns, and you can get them now made in the US with a forged receiver as opposed to the stamp metal produced by the Russians, Chinese, Poles, Romanians, and Albanians for years.  They are easy to work on, but a pain to build if you buy a kit.  AKs are in many ways the "Glocks" of semi auto rifles.  They perform in all conditions.  Because of the sheet metal construction of the receivers and the use of a Truncheon to attach the barrel they are often not as accurate as an AR type rifle (AKs with forged receivers are beginning to solve this).

 

I like most firearms.  I like my lever guns, I like my Mauser action bolt rifles.  I like my single shot 1885 and Handi Rifle.  I like my Sharps.  The great advantage of an AR or AK over the other guns I like is faster reloading.  The disadvantage is more moving parts and a bolt that is more susceptible to failure.  If you get an AR type rifle be sure to get an extra bolt carrier group.  Like an 1897 shotgun, they will break when you least want them to, but if you are prepared, the replacement is quick and easy.

 

 

Edited by Parson Remington
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9 hours ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Yep, I got one about 3 years ago. A S&W M & P Sport 15.

Decided it was better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have it

Same here. Got matching His & Hers, 12 magazines, (30 RDS), and a thousand rounds of ammo. 

I learned how to shoot one in The Marines, she did in The Army, so what the heck!

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"...Peaked my curiosity...  Never ever had I imagined an AR-15 could be considered as a curio/relic firearm.

I reckon an old SP-1 would in fact be a C&R now.  I'd imagine the cost of a good pre-1970 AR-15 would fetch quite a price tag...."

 

i had the same thinking going on a while back , then i built my 603 retro , brought back a lot of memories of that era - no i still dont think its C&R - to me they are modern in my life but im considered C&R these days , i like mine and will be holding it dear , its set up with a 22cal conversion for my entertainment , it has its 223 bolt as well , and i have a handful of the 68 vintage magazines to go with it , 

 

i no longer shoot three gun , still have all my guns for that , i am in no hurry to divest any yet but may separate a few down the road depending on what it is ., my son is shooting this and other venues , who knows he might want something but im not going to  beg anyone to take mine , everyone that cares should have one maybe two , just because there may be a confrontation at some obscure bridge in the future 

 

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Well got a couple from 3 gun days.  A grand power 9mm X-caliber.

Rifle is a PTR 32.  Think HK G3 but in 7.62x39, a roller lock commblock. 

Various 1911s which are WB guns but the Iver is  6" long slide 45acp compensated.

For pistol cailber carbine good old Thompson. 

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Posted (edited)

.....si vis pacem, parabellum.

And for a little bit fun. My DPMS Panther.

AR 15.jpeg

Edited by Revolvgang
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Lever guns are for fun and Ar's for for business. I have both. 

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I got one recently after going back and forth for a long time on it.  I can't confirm or deny that I overplayed pandemic concerns to mitigate / eliminate bridal ire lol.  I'm also in the better to have one and not need it camp.  Now I need to make some black powder rounds for it...

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Of course you need at least one -- How else are you going to play Cowboys and Aliens.... :D

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15 hours ago, J.D. Daily said:

...  The ghost lower can't legally be transfer.  In a state like the PRK you have to apply for a serial no. from the state DOJ to be legal.  ...

 

I live in a free State.  Perfect legal to sell face to face (if you are NOT commercially manufacturing) OR you can have your own serial number stamped on the lower IF you wish to do so.

 

Besides the concept of selling a firearm is foreign to me.  :huh:

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Have numerous black guns, and always will! Still have my full kit and stay proficient with them all! I have LMTs, DPMs, Colts, and some Windham Weaponry now a days AR is a AR (all though prefer piston driven) and a matter of preference, do be careful as there are some knock of chinese crap out there. There easy to maintain and like a chevy parts and mods are everywhere!

 

Would highly recommend getting one, and getting proficient with it as the Boogaloo, or hopefully the Zombies (my preference) are coming. Enjoy the new world of Tactical Timmies..

 

 

 

 

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I would not for a first gun get to carried away with building or machining a 80%, if it doesn't work right you will never know if it was you or the gun.

1st,

    AR15, .223/ 5.56 most parts from any where will work because they are built to the same standard dimensions. Magazines and ammo is every where.

2cd,

     Buy a lower and upper from a reputable dealer, I like Palmeto state armory, good prices and they stand behind  their product. I like my Colt best, but in all honesty my PSA guns work just as well. The roll mark means little on an AR, I would buy any if I needed one or the price was right.

3rd.

     I'd stay away from a AR10 to start with, they are all made to different specs.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/

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I bought one when I was a cop because my department authorized it.  They are a grossly underfunded, underpaid, overworked department, and I worked the bulk of my career in high crime neighborhoods.  On a typical shift, drawing my handgun three times was average.  We had a lot of armed suspects, standoffs, etc.  Once they authorized us to carry an AR-15 but couldn't afford to issue us one, I followed policy and bought one.

 

Like you, I don't think they're all that great.  I carried an M-16 in combat, was prior enlisted infantry, etc., so I know the platform very well.  It works, but it's a finicky little trickster.  The AR-15 is better for cops than the M-16 is for the military for the simple reason that the platform (common to both) requires it to be ABSOLUTELY CLEAN and WELL LUBRICATED.  Clean is not something I EVER experienced in the middle east, and the very fact that it was well-lubricated meant the sandy environment turned the guts into sandpaper within minutes.  I probably cleaned that thing four times a day, at least, while overseas.  But in the urban environment in the US, this is not a concern, so probably cleaned it once a month, plus whenever I fired it.  

 

I call them "Barbie dolls for men" because you can dress them up and accessorize them any way you want.  All I did to mine was add a light with a pressure switch on the forearm because I worked at night.  No fancy sights -- batteries die and glass breaks -- I used the military style iron sights (and outshot everyone at the range routinely).  

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M4.jpg

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FWIW, the only time I ever had a black rifle was in 1973-76, and it was a M-16A1, so I haven't had much use for one since. 

Finally, after watching the tumult in the country, I figured I should get one, and as much as I wanted a Colt, all I could find

was the FN A4 configuration, with a 20" barrel.  Likeable little gun, and good for shooting NRA High Power rifle and

Appleseed Known Distance rifle matches.  With the 77 gr loads one can extend the range out to 600 - 700 yds on a good day.

 

Next was to build a Close Quarters version, basically a 14.5" barrel with a welded 1.5 inch muzzle break, and a collapsible

stock.  Not that I am or ever will be a door-kicker, but it's a fun thing to do, and these guns are lego's.

 

Finally on a A2 configured lower, I built a third using a Nordic Components Match grade .22LR upper for grins.  It shoots a

dime sized group at 25 meters all day using CCI's standard velocity ammo. 

 

CAS is still fun, but I must admit that Appleseed and High Power rifle matches are starting to move into the forefront of

my interests these days.

 

My toys: 

IMG_3596.jpg

IMG_3595.jpg

IMG_3597-001.jpg

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Smith and wesson make an excellent AR. Reliable and really accurate.  Even the budget friendlier models are accurate.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Parson Remington said:

Each person is different (dah).  Their desires, potential needs, abilities, pocket book all differ.  The risk with questions such as this is you begin to focus on the opinions of others rather than what ultimately matters to you.  But since you asked,  here is my opinion. 

 

I have a few AR 10s, AR 15s and AKs.  I enjoy learning how things work.  I like building my own toys.  Understanding how the gun balances the various operating parts - the location of the gas port, the weight of the buffer - I find such things interesting and enjoy the satisfaction of creating something and knowing (sort of) how to fix it.

 

The ARs are much easier to build than the AKs.  The advantage of AR is it is a platform, a lego firearm system.  With an AR 15 you have a choice of nine different calibers I can think of, different barrel lengths, different stocks and you can hang a number of accessories on them very easily.

 

I have built them for myself, my wife, brother, niece, grandson, daughter, son-in-law and a few friends.  Each was different.  We would talk for an hour before I would start, learning what they wanted.  Some cost under $400 and a few over $2000.  Like I mentioned, we are all different.

 

If you are thinking to be prepared for the EOTWAWKI an AR 15 with a .556 upper offers probably the best option for ammo would be more plentiful than other cartridges.  For home defense an upper in 300 Blackout offers ballistics very similar to a 45 ACP and can be silenced effectively.  For distance and all round shooting I prefer the 6.5 Grendel.

 

If you opt for an AR 15 and want it only for plinking a polymer receiver made in the last five years (reinforced with metal) is fine.  If you want something that will survive hard handling and remain reliable, you will want a forged aluminum receiver.

 

AR 10s have a larger receiver to accomdate the greater length and power of the cartridges used.  Unlike the AR 15, which has a basic universally accepted design, the AR 10 from different manufacturers will have different designs and a DPMS will not mate with an upper or lower from some other manufacturers.  Like the AR 15, the AR 10 offers the choice of multiple cartridges by switching the upper receiver.  The two most popular are the 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

Not mention by anyone is a variation I like - the AR 180 you can get from Brownells as the BRN 180.  It has a different operating system than the AR 15 (one I like better), allows a folding stock, uses an AR 15 lower, but does not (yet) come in the variety of calibers.

 

AKs are good guns, and you can get them now made in the US with a forged receiver as opposed to the stamp metal produced by the Russians, Chinese, Poles, Romanians, and Albanians for years.  They are easy to work on, but a pain to build if you buy a kit.  AKs are in many ways the "Glocks" of semi auto rifles.  They perform in all conditions.  Because of the sheet metal construction of the receivers and the use of a Truncheon to attach the barrel they are often not as accurate as an AR type rifle (AKs with forged receivers are beginning to solve this).

 

I like most firearms.  I like my lever guns, I like my Mauser action bolt rifles.  I like my single shot 1885 and Handi Rifle.  I like my Sharps.  The great advantage of an AR or AK over the other guns I like is faster reloading.  The disadvantage is more moving parts and a bolt that is more susceptible to failure.  If you get an AR type rifle be sure to get an extra bolt carrier group.  Like an 1897 shotgun, they will break when you least want them to, but if you are prepared, the replacement is quick and easy.

 

 

The part that the AK's barrel is a trunnion.   The FAL & G3 have trunnions.  The AR series firearms have barrels with barrel extension that the rotating bolt locks into.  The AK has tilting bolt that engages a rear trunnion for lockup.  Unless you are a professional 3 gun competitor it will be years before you put enough rounds downrange to were out a bolt or BC.  The exception is if you have a 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 upper other than one made by CMMG.  The rim dia. of the commie cartridges is greater than the 5.56x45; so the part of the bolt that surrounds the rim is to thin for long life.  If you do shoot a lot you need a field gauge to check head space.

AR's are over gassed so the bolt velocity is hard on the gun & unless you have an A1 or Brownells retro A1 the case deflector is hard on brass.   A lot of guns put dents in the case.  If building a free floating upper I use an adjustable gas block.  The only modifications I have done to my 1999 A2 Colt was add: 1-4 optic, wider/ambi charging handle & adjustable gas key.  The lower that has the Fostech ECHO II binary trigger has a buffer with 3 tungsten weights for reliable operation in binary mode.

P.S. The commonly held belief that the AK is much more reliable than the AR due to its' loose tolerances is a myth.  Check out the many You Tube and Full30 videos of torture tests.  With each gun closed up as much as possible.  AR magazine inserted, bolt closed on cartridge & dust cover closed.  AK in same condition and safety on safe.  The guns are mudded up.  In the videos by the guys at InRange TV the AK fires the round in the chamber then fails to feed & the AR fires the round in the chamber plus every round in the magazine.  The only guns that equal the AR's performance are the roller delayed blow back guns, G3 & CETME.

Edited by J.D. Daily
correct a type-o
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I have owned a few. Built (assembled) them all except one. On 2 of them I bought the uppers. But the others I assembled.
 I only have one now. It’s a “Feaureless” California legal one. Believe it or not that goofy looking stock is actually pretty cool. I like it. It’s a Thordson FRS-15 stock. 
 

8DAD641E-3EB3-4F0F-B17A-FF9B1ADFD74D.thumb.jpeg.889ca5a5d7824f1a1b582f817607f4cf.jpeg
 

If you wish to buy a manufactured AR15 I really don’t have any advice regarding what brand or model not to buy.  I do believe the companies that used to produce junk ARs are no longer making them. 

I have heard bad reviews of the brands listed below. 

Olympic Arms

Century

Blackthorns

Hesse

Vulcan


I think if I wanted a fully built AR-15 and didn’t want to spend a lot of money I would look at S&W M&P. 
 

Here is an excellent overview of AR-15s and various things to know about before you go buy. They also list various makers ARs at the bottom of the page. Personally I would steer clear of the budget ones they list and look at the “moderate” AR list. 

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-ar-15/

 

If you buy a decent one that is already built  a lot of the info in this article may just add confusion. 

 

The one main thing that I will tell you, don’t let anyone con you into a polymer framed AR. On pistols, that is fine, on rifles NO WAY!

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Trigger Mike said:

Smith and wesson make an excellent AR. Reliable and really accurate.  Even the budget friendlier models are accurate.

I’m looking at the S&W M&P Sport, pretty affordable. 

Edited by Rye Miles #13621
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Oh, the Red Dot sight on mine is a Sig Sauer “Romeo 5”. Best bang for the buck red dot I have found. I own 3 of them. 

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