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Throckmorton,23149

who is 'the man' for Marlin work ?

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A non-SASS...for now.friend needs his .44 mag marlin looked at.

when he 1st bought it , it fed 44 Specials with aplomb, then all of a sudden it 

absolutely refuses to. Gun is clean, screws are tight, etc.My friend is no stranger to firearms.

 

We're in Oregon, on the coast but he'll gladly pay shipping to get it made right again.

anyone ? anyone ?

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Boomstick Arms, Leonard Texas.

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6 hours ago, Throckmorton,23149 said:

A non-SASS...for now.friend needs his .44 mag marlin looked at.

when he 1st bought it , it fed 44 Specials with aplomb, then all of a sudden it 

absolutely refuses to. Gun is clean, screws are tight, etc.My friend is no stranger to firearms.

 

We're in Oregon, on the coast but he'll gladly pay shipping to get it made right again.

anyone ? anyone ?

 

Any chance it can be sent back to Marlin for repairs under warranty? 

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Posted (edited)

IF the ONLY problem is the non-feeding of the .44 specials (when it use to feed them very well),

then ALL it probably needs is the timing ramp built up a few .000's.

 

Sounds like to me its worn and the timing is now slower and needs to be a little faster for those

shorter rounds.

 

I would send the carrier to Gunner Gatlin and ask him to build up the timing ramp about .015

 

I do agree with Jackaroo.   If you want the rifle checked out by someone who knows

something about the Marlin, Boomstick Jay (Boomstick Arms) would be a good choice

relatively close to you on the western side of the world.

 

IF Boomstick can't fix it, he'll call me.  Then I'll call Lumpy, Lumpy will call Jabez in Canada,

and then Jabez will call Warden Callaway in Missouri.  That should take care of it well.

;)

 

..........Widder

 

Edited by Widder, SASS #59054
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I've been welding my own. But over on the Marlin forum a guy demonstrates just bending the carrier.  He set it up in a vise (laying on its side) and inserted a screw driver in a spot to put pressure against the carrier at where the head end of the cartridge would set.  Then close the vise until the carrier bent up a little.  Says that's how they've timed them at the factory all these years.

 

I do have a carrier that is noticeably bent up.  I'm going to try this method the next time I feel the need.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

I've been welding my own. But over on the Marlin forum a guy demonstrates just bending the carrier.  He set it up in a vise (laying on its side) and inserted a screw driver in a spot to put pressure against the carrier at where the head end of the cartridge would set.  Then close the vise until the carrier bent up a little.  Says that's how they've timed them at the factory all these years.

 

I do have a carrier that is noticeably bent up.  I'm going to try this method the next time I feel the need.

 

Howdy Warden.

 

WARNING:  bending the carrier upwards at the front section 'could' cause your carrier 'tongue' to rise

enough that it will no longer be effective in blocking the round at the carrier portal from

coming out UNDER the carrier when it rises.

 

Bending is a good process..... BUT, ya need to make sure the 'tongue' hanging down off the front of

the carrier is still factory length and not rounded or shortened.

 

TWO other issues could also arise from bending up the carrier:

1.  Remove the plunger stud and spring from the carrier first.  Heating up this area

of the carrier enough to bend it will ruin that little spring that functions the plunger

stud.

 

2.  If the wings on front of the carrier are higher than normal, bending the carrier upwards

will cause the tips of the wings to hit the top of the receiver when the carrier pops up.

When the carrier pops up high and the wings pops the top of the receiver, the carrier

will 'richocet' a little downward and misalign the front of the carrier with the chamber

entrance.

The owner will not understand why he bent the carrier upwards, but now its

lower than the chamber entrance and his rounds won't feed correctly.

 

I've tried over the years, even on the Marlinowners forum, to explain all this stuff

but I ain't sure very few understand all these actions that occur inside the 1894

Marlin every time they function the lever up and down.  

Lots of stuff goes on inside those actions.

 

EDIT:   building up the carrier timing ramp ONLY effects the downward stroke of the

lever, which is when the 'feed two' situation occurs.

Bending the carrier upwards effects the position of the carrier on  BOTH the downward

stroke and the upper stroke of the lever.

 

..........Widder

 

Edited by Widder, SASS #59054
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Plus the gun may be close to experience the Marlin "feeding two" problem caused by the lever's sharp corner slightly cutting into the carrier.  You can very slightly bend the carrier, but the added advantage to welding it is you can carefully control how much you file it down.

 

So you can very slightly take the edge off the lever where it hits the carrier but make it up with a very slight lump on the carrier where welded.And the weld will so much stronger than the regular metal.

 

Any of the folks mentioned can do that for ya and get the rifle in top shape.

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21 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

1.  Remove the plunger stud and spring from the carrier first.  Heating up this area

of the carrier enough to bend it will ruin that little spring that functions the plunger

stud.

 

I figured it was cold bending.  The metal is soft as cold butter anyhow.  That's  one reason they fail so often. Too bad Marlin can't figure to insert hard metal in this are or spot weld it with hard metal.

 

I had a professional welder/fabricator TIG weld one up for me once.  I explained anything more than a fish scale would be too much.  I got it back and it looked like a sausage blobed on it. (Maybe he thought I said fish stick?) By the time I dressed it down, it was too low again.  I just MIG welded it and was done.

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I bought a small stick of 1/16 thick tool steel.  Cut out a section that was the right size, then milled a pocket in the lifter.  Easy to do as the lifter is soft.  Put in the tool steel insert and silver soldered it in.  The jigsaw blade fix on steroids.  

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Soft indeed.

And that is why those 'tongues' on front of the carrier become a concern.

I have seen those worn down, polished, etc..... and become ineffective in their purpose.

 

I have seen a few of those that are barely long enough to touch the edge of the rim

sitting in the portal.   Another .000 wear or movement upwards and the rifle

becomes more useless than the feed 2 problem..... unless the shooter only

loads 1 round in the magazine..... ;)

 

I just thought it would be helpful to share more information so someone would know

there are precautions to take when 'bending' the carrier.

 

..........Widder

 

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12 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Soft indeed.

And that is why those 'tongues' on front of the carrier become a concern.

I have seen those worn down, polished, etc..... and become ineffective in their purpose.

 

I have seen a few of those that are barely long enough to touch the edge of the rim

sitting in the portal.   Another .000 wear or movement upwards and the rifle

becomes more useless than the feed 2 problem..... unless the shooter only

loads 1 round in the magazine..... ;)

 

I just thought it would be helpful to share more information so someone would know

there are precautions to take when 'bending' the carrier.

 

..........Widder

 

 

You'de'man on Marlins.   I have to rethink how those innerds work every time I have a problem. 

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Wasn’t clear to me how all the parts interact until talking to Widder.  Didn’t realize that the lifter doesn’t come into play until the lever has moved quite a distance.  Took a visual to see how the lever lifts the round into the chamber.   A lot going on with very few pieces.  

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2 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

You'de'man on Marlins.   I have to rethink how those innerds work every time I have a problem. 

 

Hey Warden, 

I know just enough to stay in trouble..... :D

 

Actually, Lumpy has taught me one of the most important factors in checking the Marlin....

"Make sure your screws are tight".

 

Sometimes, I overthink a problem and start analyzing some of the most problematic situations.

Then I find out a screw was loose..... ;)

I realized early on that no man is an island when it comes to being the 'OZ' of Marlins.

You've probably have learned as much as anyone about them because of some of those

restorations you have completed.   Admittedly, You've done some might good work yeself.

 

Hope you are doing well.   

 

..........Widder

 

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15 hours ago, Throckmorton,23149 said:

A non-SASS...for now.friend needs his .44 mag marlin looked at.

when he 1st bought it , it fed 44 Specials with aplomb, then all of a sudden it 

absolutely refuses to. Gun is clean, screws are tight, etc.My friend is no stranger to firearms.

 

We're in Oregon, on the coast but he'll gladly pay shipping to get it made right again.

anyone ? anyone ?

 

Is he using the exact same rnd as before?

Have him fush out the extractor hole in the bolt with brake cleaner.

What's the first 2 numbers of the serial number?

OLG

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thanks pards, I"ve passed along this info and he said to say he appreciates it. 

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One thing I've done to convince myself that the carrier needs to be repaired is to put a piece or two of electrical tape on the lever cam surface to see if cures the problem.   I've even used JB Weld to build up this area.

 

59cac99ca9a58_MarlincarrierSept2017.jpg.a31634a531057bdf1e908759cac1972f.jpg

 

Here is the JB Weld and hacksaw blade fix.  Worked for about a year then the JB Weld broke loose. But this picture shows the area most likely that needs fixing. 

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10 hours ago, Throckmorton,23149 said:

thanks pards, I"ve passed along this info and he said to say he appreciates it. 

 

PLZ, keep us updated :excl:

OLG 

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Got to ask. Has anyone tried laying the carrier on its side on an anvil and with a good drift punch and a heavy hammer, hit that area and try and raise it ? Doesn't seem like it takes much to change it. You say the metal is soft.

Just a thought.

   Rob

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2 minutes ago, Rough 'N Ready Rob said:

Got to ask. Has anyone tried laying the carrier on its side on an anvil and with a good drift punch and a heavy hammer, hit that area and try and raise it ? Doesn't seem like it takes much to change it. You say the metal is soft.

Just a thought.

   Rob

 

That's so crazy it might just work.   

 

 

I recently stretched a Pietta hand by laying a drill bit across it and hitting it a couple of wecks.

 

 

And stretched the cylinder bushing on this old Colt by peening it. 

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On 4/14/2020 at 6:41 AM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

IF the ONLY problem is the non-feeding of the .44 specials (when it use to feed them very well), then ALL it probably needs is the timing ramp built up a few .000's.

...

I would send the carrier to Gunner Gatlin and ask him to build up the timing ramp about .015

..........Widder

 


Last year, we spoke on the phone at great length about this.
One of the topics was removing the ejector and watch how the cartridge is grabbed and loaded.
I took notes, but... 

Has anybody put out a hi-res video for this?
If not, is there any call for a video for this?

With the ranges shut down, my 1894CB has a virgin carrier, and I have the ability to make a hi-res video....

Thoughts?
 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/14/2020 at 9:35 AM, Still hand Bill said:

I bought a small stick of 1/16 thick tool steel.  Cut out a section that was the right size, then milled a pocket in the lifter.  Easy to do as the lifter is soft.  Put in the tool steel insert and silver soldered it in.  The jigsaw blade fix on steroids.  


I figure this is similar to what Gunner Gatlin does... it makes sense.
You can mill the pocket as desired to set the final height you desire.
The trick is finding the proper height.

Edited by bgavin

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Howdy bgavin.

 

Finding the right height can be relatively simple by just following the normal angle

of the ramp and giving it a couple .000's height increase, ESPECIALLY if shorter than

normal ammo is going to be used in it.

 

EXCEPTION:  ever so often, the factory will produce a carrier and the timing ramp is bad from the

get-go.   I have experienced a couple of BAD carriers new from the factory.

 

For anyone who adds a piece of steel to their carrier ramp, BE SURE that none of it hangs over

the high edge when your finished.  

If the additional 'add-on' is too high at the top OR, if it hangs over the edge, you will have to

bevel the top edge about 1/8"  at the top and over the edge.

 

..........Widder

 

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Posted (edited)

When my .45lc Marlin developed the ‘marlin jam’ i repaired mine with the untoothed end [minus the pin] of a coping saw blade and jb weld. It’s held up for 10-15 years and still going strong.  Might want to try that before you buy any parts or ship your rifle all over. It’s crazy that that little bit of wear throws things off that much. I’m assuming that the 44 and 45 are more or less the same as far as the lifter goes.

Edited by Baltimore Ed
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