Palouse Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Need some thoughts on how to reduce the amount of force needed to work the action lever on my Huglu/Liberty hammer shotgun. Lever spring is a 3/4" long coil, .296" diameter, with matching short plunger, both fit in a .300" diameter blind hole. (Measured by ball gauge and caliper.) Lever cams against head of plunger, and retains spring in blind hole. Is this a common spring size, with multiple weight options, and I could just order some? Reduce diameter, such as evenly stoning the exterior? Would leave a flat on the wire, not sure how that would impact spring life. Could get a thin abrasive between coils, but that still does not give a round profile to the wire of the spring. Reduce spring length, slowly, with testing between cuts? This is a stout spring. It doesn't compress very far. With too much removed, I could see having no tension for a portion of the lever throw, and the rest still being too heavy. Does shortening a heavy coil spring already under significant compression make a difference? Thanks for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I would not stone, file, grind, clip a coil off, or otherwise alter that spring. You don’t know if you can order or otherwise get your hands on a direct part replacement and you don’t know the compression “weight” of the spring. Perhaps you can find a similar spring in an industrial supply company catalog, such as McMaster-Carr. Look for one with thinner coils. Check a couple good hardware stores. Don’t lose that spring. Also see if Jack First Inc. can help you by giving you advice or sending you a similar, but lighter weight spring, or something the same that you can alter. But, I wouldn’t alter the original spring at all unless you’re positive of the outcome. (605) 343-8481 https://jack-first-gun-parts.myshopify.com Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Have several spare springs on hand before you do anydangthing. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 58 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Have several spare springs on hand before you do anydangthing. OLG Take off the butt stock and drill two small holes into the wood. Wrap and grease the factory springs and drop them in the holes. That way you will never loose the factory springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Good comments above. Our Ace Hardware store has a surprising inventory of odds and ends, so local hardware stores are a good idea. Gunsmiths always have a spare parts drawer that you might be able to rummage through if you have one nearby. Ruger Blackhawk/Vaquero hammer springs mike out pretty close to 0.300 outside diameter. In a pinch you could order a variety of them, experiment by shortening them and see if one would work. Buy a lottery ticket if it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Coil springs can be lightened BEST by putting them on a shaft around which they will spin without wobbling, then holding the spring lightly against a grinding wheel while you take just a little off the OD. Put a little thumb pressure against the OD of the spring to keep it from spinning fast! Grind evenly around the spring, grind almost full length of the spring. Don't let spring get warm enough you can't touch it barehanded (to protect any heat treatment). Use a fine wheel so you don't leave deep scratches on the surface (they could be stress riser points). No need to water cool the spring - go slow enough you don't have to do that. But, there are so many spring vendors on-line that it's pretty easy to find one that is same OD (important to fit existing bore holes), same ID (or larger), and uses slightly smaller wire diameter. Length you can match (by cut-off) to what you have right now. It's the spring wire diameter itself that makes the most difference to how stout the spring is. Go a gauge or two lighter that what the factory used. NEVER shorten a coil spring until you are sure, as you mentioned, that shortening it does not cause you to put some initial compression on the spring when you install it. Otherwise, as you say, you have "no-resistance" travel at the start of the stroke. MOST coils are held captive at some amount of compression even when not supporting any load from the part(s) that it activates/engages. Good luck, GJ Quote but that still does not give a round profile to the wire of the spring. Springs don't have to be round wire. Some of the very strongest springs made are rectangular or square cross section steel. As long as you don't leave sharp corners and deep gouges in the spring wire, it will hold up fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 21 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: Coil springs can be lightened BEST by putting them on a shaft around which they will spin without wobbling, then holding the spring lightly against a grinding wheel while you take just a little off the OD. Put a little thumb pressure against the OD of the spring to keep it from spinning fast! Grind evenly around the spring, grind almost full length of the spring. Don't let spring get warm enough you can't touch it barehanded (to protect any heat treatment). Use a fine wheel so you don't leave deep scratches on the surface (they could be stress riser points). No need to water cool the spring - go slow enough you don't have to do that. But, there are so many spring vendors on-line that it's pretty easy to find one that is same OD (important to fit existing bore holes), same ID (or larger), and uses slightly smaller wire diameter. Length you can match (by cut-off) to what you have right now. It's the spring wire diameter itself that makes the most difference to how stout the spring is. Go a gauge or two lighter that what the factory used. NEVER shorten a coil spring until you are sure, as you mentioned, that shortening it does not cause you to put some initial compression on the spring when you install it. Otherwise, as you say, you have "no-resistance" travel at the start of the stroke. MOST coils are held captive at some amount of compression even when not supporting any load from the part(s) that it activates/engages. Good luck, GJ This this is pretty much the description of the way I was taught introduce it to the belt sander then a buffing wheel to round and smooth/polish everything as stated above you never want to shorten a coil spring you will lose the preload also be careful where you put your fingers I’ve seen a couple people screw them right into there finger it comes right back out , but it looked painful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palouse Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 Thank you to all that replied. The wire diameter is .065", which seems to be stout, relative to alternatives on internet. Half the mass of the current spring should give about half the force, so a same-shape spring with .046" diameter wire is the goal. Internet search finds many with similar length, outside and acceptable inside diameters, number of coils, but with .035" wire. That should still work. Hard to find one spring. Same vendor: 10@$17.95 per spring on up to 1,000@$1.12 per. (Set up to service wholesale or manufacturing.) I have email out to Wolff and another vendor for ideas. I ordered spare spring from CZ USA, as action is nearly identical to current CZ Hammer Classic. I am guessing Part #7 is same wire diameter. Maybe current production is lighter. CZ USA has awesome service. I have many hours into filing and stoning the leaf hammer springs, and figured coils could be reduced, also. I just don't want to spend weekends worth of time to get this spring ready. No buffer or belt/table sander. Files, stones and dull knife-backed sand paper is a final alternative. Something to keep the spring rotating evenly will help. Now where did I put those spare '98, '03, and Blackhawk springs ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 A new model Ruger Vaquero hammer spring is 0.300" OD, and has 0.039" wire diameter. It's coil density (pitch between coils) looks like (from eyeball comparison to your picture) about 70% as tight as your spring. The coil spacing is almost exactly 0.25" (4 turns per inch), unloaded. I'd bet it would provide about half the resistance to the lever movement. That might be a little light. Or it might be quite nice. But it would be easy to try. A slightly heavier than Ruger's factory spring weight might be just about perfect. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Bill, SASS #4942 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 On 3/31/2020 at 12:15 PM, J-BAR #18287 said: Good comments above. Our Ace Hardware store has a surprising inventory of odds and ends, so local hardware stores are a good idea. Gunsmiths always have a spare parts drawer that you might be able to rummage through if you have one nearby. Ruger Blackhawk/Vaquero hammer springs mike out pretty close to 0.300 outside diameter. In a pinch you could order a variety of them, experiment by shortening them and see if one would work. Buy a lottery ticket if it works! Fastenal also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 Look at a 1911 hammer spring. Call Wolff Gunsprings and tell'em what you need. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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