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Question for long time shotgun re-loaders


Charlie T Waite

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I have some "Herter's 164" shotgun powder.  I have load data for the 162 but not the 164.   I know the 164 burn slower than 162.  Does anyone have any load data from an old Lyman's or Herter's catalog or any starting load suggestions before I start experimenting with it .  This is new old stock sealed powder tins in excellent condition so figured I would use it.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Charlie

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Charlie Waite

 Maybe you’ve already done this, but why don’t you query:   “Herters gun powder load data“

and see where that ultimately takes you?

 

Cat Brules

 

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1 minute ago, Cat Brules said:

Charlie Waite

 Maybe you’ve already done this, but why don’t you query:   “Herters gun powder load data“

and see where that ultimately takes you?

 

Cat Brules

 

Thanks, I have and that was where I got the load data for 162.  it appears that the burn rate is close to 700x so thought I would start with the min load for that and work up or down from there if no-one has any load data.

 

Charlie

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I've used Lyman shotshell manuals for years and NEVER seen any data for any of the Herter's powders in them.   Even if it all was "Finest in the World"

 

And I threw out all my old Herter's catalogs (usually within a couple days of receiving them back in the 70s).

 

I'd ask on the Shotgun World Reloading forum - if anyone has some old Herter's data, it might be there.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=13

 

Good luck, GJ

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9 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

I've used Lyman shotshell manuals for years and NEVER seen any data for any of the Herter's powders in them.   Even if it all was "Finest in the World"

 

And I threw out all my old Herter's catalogs (usually within a couple days of receiving them back in the 70s).

 

I'd ask on the Shotgun World Reloading forum - if anyone has some old Herter's data, it might be there.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=13

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Thanks Garrison. When googled, that was where I got the information for the 162 and what catalogs it might be in or see if someone would still have.

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"Useing Green Powermag Shotshells,and Herters Chalice one piece wad--209 primer

--29.0gr Herters 164 Shotgun powder,---1 1/4oz shot=1330fps"

This is from PROFESSIONAL LOADING,AND RELOADING DATA--by George L Herter (revised fourth edition-1976)

 

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?325326-Herters-164-powder

 

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/313097-herters-162-a.html

 

I found these threads listed above after a little search on Google. I also found a thread that said the Herter's powders were nothing but re-branded Nobel, with a 1 added to the front of the powder number. 164 Herter's would be 64 Nobel.

 

NONE OF THIS DATA IS MINE. As always take it with a grain of salt and approach cautiously.

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12 minutes ago, John Boy said:

 

Thanks John Boy I down loaded the manual and see if I can find a comparable powder to it.  I know that with the slower burn rate this was a powder for magnum shotgun loads but without a specific burn rate for it.....  that was why I said it appears from what I have been told and read that the burn rate is close to 700x so thought I would start with the min load for that and work up or down from there if no-one has any load data.  Someone else said that it was comparable to Nobel powder of the same last 2 digit numeric value e.g. 162 = 62.

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11 hours ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

"Useing Green Powermag Shotshells,and Herters Chalice one piece wad--209 primer

--29.0gr Herters 164 Shotgun powder,---1 1/4oz shot=1330fps"

This is from PROFESSIONAL LOADING,AND RELOADING DATA--by George L Herter (revised fourth edition-1976)

 

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?325326-Herters-164-powder

 

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/313097-herters-162-a.html

 

I found these threads listed above after a little search on Google. I also found a thread that said the Herter's powders were nothing but re-branded Nobel, with a 1 added to the front of the powder number. 164 Herter's would be 64 Nobel.

 

NONE OF THIS DATA IS MINE. As always take it with a grain of salt and approach cautiously.

Thanks for the info Goody, I was on the Castboolits site but not that specific thread; somehow I missed it.  I greatly appreciate all the help from you and everyone.

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If all else fails, try contacting Hornady.  They have a very knowledgeable QC staff in the basement that test factory loads and load development.  If there is an expert in how gun powder is mixed, those guys are it.  Very impressive set up.  They just might be able to help point you in the right direction.  I doubt they can give you a recipe, but they may know where the information is to help you out.

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26 minutes ago, Tucker McNeely said:

If all else fails, try contacting Hornady.  They have a very knowledgeable QC staff in the basement that test factory loads and load development.  If there is an expert in how gun powder is mixed, those guys are it.  Very impressive set up.  They just might be able to help point you in the right direction.  I doubt they can give you a recipe, but they may know where the information is to help you out.

Do you mean Hodgdon?

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12 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Do you mean Hodgdon?

Nope Hornady.  I haven’t toured the Hodgdon facility.  They might be a source also.

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On 3/28/2020 at 9:44 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

I've used Lyman shotshell manuals for years and NEVER seen any data for any of the Herter's powders in them.   Even if it all was "Finest in the World"

 

And I threw out all my old Herter's catalogs (usually within a couple days of receiving them back in the 70s).

 

I'd ask on the Shotgun World Reloading forum - if anyone has some old Herter's data, it might be there.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=13

 

Good luck, GJ

You've brought back fond memories.  When I was a kid, the arrival of a new Herters catalog was always a big deal.  I spent hours reading the boastfull ads.  I ordered a lot from them, and I never recall receiving anything in less than three or four months, which was tough for an anxious kid.  I still have one of their fiberglass and Brazilian Rosewood recurved bows (50#).   But the best was ordering one of their George L. Herter over-&-under shotguns for $165.  When it finally came, after nearly a year, I discovered it was made in Belgium by Browning and was a fantastic, tight fitting shotgun.  I used it for trap, and dove, quail hunting for a number of years, until I lost it in a house fire in 1973. 

Thanks for the memories. 

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Charlie, here’s hoping all the data is there.  For the good of the order, let us know what you find out and the calibers it’s used for

 

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I have a tracking number already and it is supposed to go out tomorrow by USPS.  If it's in there and someone needs an answer I on Herter's, I should have it for them.

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FYI - Expected Delivery by Wednesday 8 April

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On 3/30/2020 at 9:25 PM, John Boy said:

Charlie, here’s hoping all the data is there.  For the good of the order, let us know what you find out and the calibers it’s used for

 

 

Book arrived today.  I did find the data I needed and considerably more.  Per the book 164 is used for heavy or Magnum SG loads of the time (50 years ago).  At full load (28.4grs) it gives the velocity of 1240 fps for 1.5 oz shot.  This gives me a good starting point to work up a SASS load.  Again, I want to thank everyone for their help.

 

Charlie

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