Buckshot Bob Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I’m going to start loading some ammo and want to settle on a rifle/pistol load that will work for everything. And since I’ve never had to be concerned about not having enough power to knock down a plate before in IDPA or IPSC what do yo all consider a safe minimum in a 38 will a 125 gr going 800 always do the job ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Your 125 grain bullets usually will knockdown CAS plates. Be sure to hit the upper portion of the target and not the hinge. Sometimes plates get out of calibration and are harder to tip over. I keep some 158 grain factory loads in my gun cart in case I encounter such targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 As stated, yes. .38 Special, 125 gr slug at 800 should generally do it. Start off with that. I wouldn’t load up a bunch of “heavier” ammo based on “What if’s?”. Just see what it takes at the “home” range you wind up shooting at the most, and ask their officers how they designed their knockdowns to fall. Most ranges will attempt to have their targets be similar to those at other ranges. Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I load 38 spl 125 gr. bullets to about 725 out of my pistols. The same round out of the rifle will be faster. It will knock down anything set up to be knocked down at a SASS match. I use to carry a 50 round box of 158 gr knockdown loads that were loaded pretty hot. I shot them up and never saw the need to load any more. About the only thing that might cause problems is a Texas star with stiff springs but I haven't seen anybody use one in several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Square Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Bob, , how are those load on tables and props? Goes right through them, I imagine ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, T-Square said: Bob, , how are those load on tables and props? Goes right through them, I imagine ?! His load is a 100 PF. We shoot a minimum of 160 PF in WB and do not do damage to props and targets. Any prop that is downrange is considered expendable and can be hit at will, regardless of the consequences. Now if you shoot the table with a 100 PF or any load you're done for the day anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 125 gr bullet over 3.5 grains of Tite-Group, knocks anyhting down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cross, SASS #13848 L Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 140 grain TCFP over 3.0 grains of Hodgden Clays: rifle or revolver, knockdowns no problem unless missed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Square Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said: Now if you shoot the table with a 100 PF or any load you're done for the day anyway. Yes....now I think I remember......yes...yes he was done for the day ! (sarcasm and vocal melody added for humor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I load 158 gr. over 3.0 Clays for knock downs Thanks Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 3 hours ago, T-Square said: Bob, , how are those load on tables and props? Goes right through them, I imagine ?! I don't know about the 38's but a 12 gauge will go right through a plywood table. And yes, they will make you sign the table right after you put your guns up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: 125 gr bullet over 3.5 grains of Tite-Group, knocks anyhting down! I was digging around in my reloading stuff and found 8 pounds of solo 1000 , from digging around here it seems people liked it hopefully it will shoot well , if not I have others I can try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 32 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said: I don't know about the 38's but a 12 gauge will go right through a plywood table. And yes, they will make you sign the table right after you put your guns up. So will a severely downloaded 38 S&W from a pocket pistol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 QUESTION: does knockdown power have to be greater than knockdown resistance or just equal. If so, what would be a good % of greater power over the resistance? ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 SHB calls for knock down targets to be set to fall from a standard commercial . 38 round (158 gn). But I've seldom/never seen them set that heavily. MDs are usually wanting shooters to enjoy the match without frustrations, so targets get set much lighter. Normally, my wife's . 32 H&R mag pistols with 95gn bullets over 2.3 gn of Titegroup takes all of them down, but hitting them properly above center can be pretty critical. The tighter aiming takes her a bit more time, but they always seem to fall. My experience is that 105 gn .38 pistol projectiles over 2.6 Titegroup or 130 gn.. 38 rifle projectiles over 3.1 gn of Titegroup takes them out every time. Obviously target range also has an effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Yep, we set ours to be just off balance enough to stand up in the match-day wind. Usually our wind is out of the southwest. Our down range direction is mostly east. We set so the targets are not often blown over by the wind once we reset them. I test them with a calibrated "heel of fist" bump. If a hand bump doesn't knock them over, set them lighter. If the wind is knocking them down, set 'em heavier. Very precise! GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said: I don't know about the 38's but a 12 gauge will go right through a plywood table. And yes, they will make you sign the table right after you put your guns up. If the shooter refuses to sign I sign for them. And, date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 RMW I have shot Solo 1000 for 17 years in SASS> Sadly it is no longer made so I am transitioning to Cleanshot. 2.7 gr of Solo behind a 125 RNFP will give about 635-650 fps in a pistol and work fine on falling plates or even SG knockdowns. Enjoy the Solo, 8 pounds will last a long time. Imis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Also, if your loads aren't knocking down targets. Set your ammo in the direct sunlight. The heat will increase velocity. Some of our testing saw an increase of 150 fps, depending on the powder charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 21 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said: Normally, my wife's . 32 H&R mag pistols with 95gn bullets over 2.3 gn of Titegroup takes all of them down, but hitting them properly above center can be pretty critical. The tighter aiming takes her a bit more time, but they always seem to fall. My experience is that 105 gn .38 pistol projectiles over 2.6 Titegroup or 130 gn.. 38 rifle projectiles over 3.1 gn of Titegroup takes them out every time. Obviously target range also has an effect. My wife also shoots .32 H&R mags. She keeps some Federal factory loads in her cart for knockdowns. They are more powerful than her handloads that are 100 gr bullets over 2.4 gr of N320. People think she shoots .38s when she whacks the knockdowns. Due to local high winds (today 30 mph gusting to 45) our knockdown targets often take more than a rodent belch to tip over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Fire, SASS 10064 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 All of my loads for the 38 exceed the SASS specs for power factor. But, there are some targets that for what ever reason will need that little extra. I carry a box of handloaded "Rino Rollers" with 147 grain bullets and a few extra grains of powder. Seldom needed but nice to have to in the game. Will also load extra with the Cap and Ball if needed as I go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Assassin said: Also, if your loads aren't knocking down targets. Set your ammo in the direct sunlight. The heat will increase velocity. Some of our testing saw an increase of 150 fps, depending on the powder charge. I am sure "Climate Change" will also be helpful ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I usually have a pair of .45's in the cart - just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 My loads, which I copied from others, are: — .38 Special, 125-grain, RNFP lead slug, 3.1 grains TiteGroup, Federal Magnum pistol primers. I began using magnum primers with that loading as “insurance” to help ensure positive ignition for any “variables” that may come into play, such as cold weather, etc. I’m not absolutely sure mag primers help, but it makes me feel better. Most other Cowboys’ reloads are likely so very close to that (bullet weight and charge), the difference probably doesn’t matter a whole lot. I have never failed to knock down a target with that loading (the ones I actually hit, anyway). You will decide on what your loads will be. Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bob Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 7 hours ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said: RMW I have shot Solo 1000 for 17 years in SASS> Sadly it is no longer made so I am transitioning to Cleanshot. 2.7 gr of Solo behind a 125 RNFP will give about 635-650 fps in a pistol and work fine on falling plates or even SG knockdowns. Enjoy the Solo, 8 pounds will last a long time. Imis Is that in a 38 case or a 357 , I’ll be using 357’s the solo is left over from when I used to shoot sporting clays , didn’t know they stopped making it until I joined this forum and started doing some research. I should have started earlier because I bought some trail boss which seems to get mixed reviews and some Tin Star which gets terrible reviews, which surprised me since I’ve always liked their powders in the past and this was supposedly just for CAS . Apparently I put my response in the quote, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Cat Brules said: My loads, which I copied from others, are: — .38 Special, 125-grain, RNFP lead slug, 3.1 grains TiteGroup, Federal Magnum pistol primers. I began using magnum primers with that loading as “insurance” to help ensure positive ignition for any “variables” that may come into play, such as cold weather, etc. I’m not absolutely sure mag primers help, but it makes me feel better. Most other Cowboys’ reloads are likely so very close to that (bullet weight and charge), the difference probably doesn’t matter a whole lot. I have never failed to knock down a target with that loading (the ones I actually hit, anyway). You will decide on what your loads will be. Cat Brules Cat, that’s pretty close to my load. 3.5 grs of TiteGroup with 125 gr bullet, not much difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 This is not really about knockdown power, but feed your rifle what it wants. Don't try to make it eat your pistol loads. That's an exercise in frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOLFY Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 my 38spl load isn’t far off from everyone else’s... only i increased bullet weights to bring p o i up from 125 - 158grn. usually @ 3.5 grns of titegroup with Federal Small Magnum primers. run perfectly through the wheel and lever guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 5 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Cat, that’s pretty close to my load. 3.5 grs of TiteGroup with 125 gr bullet, not much difference! Yeah, Rye.....that’s what I was trying to say, I guess. Most Cowboy reloads are so often, very much alike, but vary slightly. Oh, by the way. If it’s pretty cold out, I suggest we carry one of those “shake&bake” small chemical hand warmers. Activate it and put it under your ammo to help ensure positive ignition. Those things last 6+ hours I think, so you can stuff the hand warmer in a 1-qt freezer bag and seal it. Lack of air will shut down the hand warmer, and you could use it again. Anyway, so much for that.....ymmv. Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said: This is not really about knockdown power, but feed your rifle what it wants. Don't try to make it eat your pistol loads. That's an exercise in frustration. What Possum says .... It's the rifle that is more persnickety(technical term). Tailor your load to that & then try it in your pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 9 hours ago, Cat Brules said: My loads, which I copied from others, are: — .38 Special, 125-grain, RNFP lead slug, 3.1 grains TiteGroup, Federal Magnum pistol primers. I began using magnum primers with that loading as “insurance” to help ensure positive ignition for any “variables” that may come into play, such as cold weather, etc. I’m not absolutely sure mag primers help, but it makes me feel better. Most other Cowboys’ reloads are likely so very close to that (bullet weight and charge), the difference probably doesn’t matter a whole lot. I have never failed to knock down a target with that loading (the ones I actually hit, anyway). You will decide on what your loads will be. Cat Brules Is it possible the mag primers could also save you a squib? Just askin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 RMW I load the Solo in both .38 and .357. My 73 feeds better with .357 length and Jersey Bratt's Marlin wont hold ten round of .357 length so she gets .38. same recipe for both. I have toolheads set up for each on my Dillon so changing over is a 90 second job. Hope you have equal results. If you have questions or want to chat PM me and I will send my phone #. Imis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null N. Void Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 A long time ago, I had a occasional poor ignition with the load I was using. The bullets cleared, but were very weak. I switched to magnum primers, and never had the problem again. I have continued to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Over the last couple years I have been playing a lot with my loads looking for the same answer as the OP. I'm a 105 man.....I guess that's kinda' like a Dapper Dan man without the head net......lol. Anyway I shoot 3.6 grains & 105 of Reddot in everything and very rarely have to reach into my little leather bag of tricks. If I do it's usually for that target everyone is complaining about at the end of the match. When I run into those I have 158's and 3.1 grains of Reddot which i have tested and it has a little more authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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