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Major General Shagnasty

What is the call?

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At one of our matches a shooter shot his 10 rounds from his revolvers at A , then moved to B and shot 2 rounds from his rifle and it then broke. He laid the gun down and moved to C and shot the shot gun to close the stage. He came to the unloading table with the broken gun and he and another shooter worked on unjamming the 73. 8 rounds were being removed from the 73 and It was my turn to shoot and the last one on the possie, so I left the unloading table and turned it over to a fellow shooter.  When the next stage was disscribed and the shooter that had the jammed 73  and I were at the loading table,  we both noticed that his revolvers were not unloaded when he left the unloading table. What would have been the correct call?   

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SDQ 

Quote

Failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures. 

SHB p.23


 

Quote

 

Any competitor’s failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures will result in a penalty of a Stage Disqualification.

- Leaving the unloading table without clearing all firearms will result in the penalty being assessed on the stage where the infraction was committed.  

Competitors arriving at the designated loading area with uncleared firearms after completing a stage within the same day will be assessed a Stage Disqualification penalty on the previously completed stage

 

SHB p.29. 

 

 

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That's why I always have the shooter unload his pistols before they work on their rifle (or) they other way around if their pistols are the jammed firearm.

Rafe

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"Within the same day"...

 

Because a few years ago there was a 47 page discussion about a shooter showing up at the loading table for the first stage of a match with empties in his revolvers because he never cleared them after the last stage last weekend.

 

Just thought I'd stir it up a bit. 

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SDQ, it happened to me!!:o

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1 hour ago, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:

That's why I always have the shooter unload his pistols before they work on their rifle (or) they other way around if their pistols are the jammed firearm.

Rafe

Immediately upon arriving at the ULT, get in the habit of placing ALL of your guns on the table, with loading gates open on pistols.  Verify ALL guns as clear before reholstering pistols.  That way you don't make the O. P. MISTAKE described here, and if you happen to miss the holster and drop a pistol reholstering, after having them declared clear, you are no longer "on the stage" or on the "line of fire", so you avoid the SDQ penalty for the dropped pistol.  

(Good advice given to me by Snakebite on my very first safety walk through, when I began CAS shooting.) 

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2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

SDQ, it happened to me!!:o

Me too.

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8 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

SDQ 

SHB p.23


 

SHB p.29. 

 

 

Thank you, was not sure if the SDQ would be for  the stage just shot, or the stage about to be shot because of bring a non cleared gun to the loading table, or both stages.

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8 minutes ago, Major General Shagnasty said:

Thank you, was not sure if the SDQ would be for  the stage just shot, or the stage about to be shot because of bring a non cleared gun to the loading table, or both stages.

SDQ is for the stage just shot, because that is the stage where he failed to adhere to unloading procedures

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The same day, next stage and shooter comes to the LT with empties in pistols, SDQ for the previous stage.

As mentioned I ask the shooter to clear their guns before trying to fix whatever gun is messed up.  

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7 hours ago, Major General Shagnasty said:

Thank you, was not sure if the SDQ would be for  the stage just shot, or the stage about to be shot because of bring a non cleared gun to the loading table, or both stages.

If you arrive at the LT with a gun that is not cleared, the SDQ is applied to the prior stage where the unloading infraction was committed. 

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1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

If you arrive at the LT with a gun that is not cleared, the SDQ is applied to the prior stage where the unloading infraction was committed. 

What if it's the first stage of the day??:P

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4 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

What if it's the first stage of the day??:P

That's an exception--a No Call situation. 

 

 

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Just for clarification. When is penalty applied? As soon as you leave unloading table?

Release guns in gun cart?

or arrive at loading table next stage.

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1 hour ago, High Plains Hud SASS#64232 said:

Just for clarification. When is penalty applied? As soon as you leave unloading table?

Release guns in gun cart?

or arrive at loading table next stage.

https://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/RO I Course - Student Handbook Vers 25 Jan7, 2020.pdf 

 

ROI pg 92

Quote

*”Failure to adhere to loading/unloading procedure”, resulting in a Stage Disqualification penalty, is assessed at the following point: Once control of the firearm(s) is relinquished; be it in a rack on the stage or at the shooter’s gun cart. (i.e. leaves the shooters hand(s), having bypassed the loading/unloading table.

 

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7 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

That's an exception--a No Call situation. 

 

 

That's what I thought! ;)

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The intent of the rule was to allow for folks that had made the offense of practicing before the match and left empties in their gun.  So that would justify the no call.

 

But since the wording is what we go by, I can see where there is some confusion.

 

At one time in the game, we were allowed and even encouraged to use logic, but we have generally lost that in the false hope that rules can be written to cover all situations.

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I think part of the problem comes in the "well, you never said I couldn't" mentality.

We can no longer use logic and common sense for a situation; we have to spell it out to apply to everyone so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt.

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35 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

We can no longer use logic and common sense for a situation; we have to spell it out to apply to everyone so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt.

Griffin's New Age Dictionary:

 common;  that which is seen most often.

 sense; physical sensation or intelligence level.

 

Ergo, common sense now means sheer stupidity.

 

Prefered phrasing should be "uncommon good sense."

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On 3/9/2020 at 11:36 PM, Major General Shagnasty said:

At one of our matches a shooter shot his 10 rounds from his revolvers at A , then moved to B and shot 2 rounds from his rifle and it then broke. He laid the gun down and moved to C and shot the shot gun to close the stage. He came to the unloading table with the broken gun and he and another shooter worked on unjamming the 73. 8 rounds were being removed from the 73 and It was my turn to shoot and the last one on the possie, so I left the unloading table and turned it over to a fellow shooter.  When the next stage was disscribed and the shooter that had the jammed 73  and I were at the loading table,  we both noticed that his revolvers were not unloaded when he left the unloading table. What would have been the correct call?   

 

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As I always tell a new shooter ......  Their is nothing you can do wrong I have not already done!    I did exactly as you described.   SDQ.....  100% my fault

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