Does Annealing .45 Colt Brass Stop Blow By?

[Tequila Shooter]

I'm loading .45 Colt with APP powder.  I'm using a 1873 Uberti rifle and I'm finding a lot of soot and build up on the toggle link and other internals.  I understand the chamber being fouled, but could annealing the brass help with blow by and keep the internals cleaner?  Also I saw an Anneal - Rite machine is only $140.00 has anyone any experience with it?

[Rancho Roy]

Yes....With black powder (or substitute) it could. As long as the case is full and holds the bullet from collapsing into the case and jamming up your rifle.

 

With smokeless powder and not a full case, a good crimp is needed and annealed brass might not crimp tight enough.

[Cat Brules]

26 minutes ago, Rancho Roy said:

Yes....With black powder (or substitute) it could. As long as the case is full and holds the bullet from collapsing into the case and jamming up your rifle.

 

With smokeless powder and not a full case, a good crimp is needed and annealed brass might not crimp tight enough.

Why would annealed brass not grip/crimp tightly enough?

What does annealing do to the neck of a brass cartridge case?

 

Cat Brules

 

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Yes, it does.

45 Schofield cases are smaller & period correct, if you care.

45 Cowboy Special are a bit smaller still, but need rifle modifications to cycle correctly.

My pard Coffinmaker runs nothing but 45s in his rifle with APP, and his rifle is very clean at the end of each match.

Message him for details [https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/profile/12567-colorado-coffinmaker/]

It really works well!

--Dawg

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

I am a strong supporter of annealing cartridge cases.  I anneal all of my precision center fire rifle cases after every reloading. Also 45-70 and 38-55. For cowboy I anneal 45 Colt brass. HOWEVER, improperly annealed cases are permanently RUINED !!!!  Annealing cases is much more complicated than getting  A propane torch, a pan of water, and a dark room.  I have an Annealing Made Perfect machine from New Zealand.  I replaced my Bench Source machine with it. Perfect annealing every time. Far superior to the older methods but expensive. You can clean a lot of guns for what one costs if that is your only reason for buying it.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

The short answer is YES.  Annealing 45 Colt cases will eliminate Blow-By.  Annealing 45 Schofield cases will eliminate Blow-by.  Annealing 44 Special, 44 Russian and Cowboy 45 Special cases will eliminate Blow-By.  I use a very simple and cheap method with a socket, cordless drill, propane tank and painters bucket of water.  Quenching is not necessary.  I only dump 'em inna bucket to cool quicker.

 

I'm not trying to anneal precision rifle cases so getting some a little soft is no big deal.  Too soft and the case may extract a bit stiff.  If you're running a Uberti built toggle link rifle, with straight wall cases, you have blow-by.  By annealing, straight wall rifles will run just as clean as 44-40 or 38-40.  My 45 rifles have run as many as 6 matches with nothing more than swabbing out the barrel.  I primarily shoot APP.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

another 'yes' here.  

 

I usually use the number of cracked cartridges as a guide.  when it goes past 5% it goes through the annealer.  

 

I built my own to keep costs down

[Warden Callaway]

I've went to 454 diameter bullets and I think it helps.

[Turkey Flats Jack]

Annealing is the way to go when running straight walled cases with BP. Coffin maker, prairie dawg, and the other BP shooters from my area turned me on to it and I'll never not do it now that I've started. World of difference on blowby. A good solid crimp helps some too. As for the annealing machine you mentioned I've never looked into it. I'm using a socket and drill. I do have the parts to build a machine now but haven't gotten around to it yet. Lots of diy videos for it on YouTube.

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

Yes!  Next question.

Blackfoot

[Tequila Shooter]

Thanks everyone, I guess I'm going to have to give it a try.  Now my only decision is which machine.

[Warden Callaway]

Back in the old days when things were simple,  we just annealed our brass by dunking mouth of case into a pot of molten lead.  In a couple of seconds the brass got hot enough that the lead slipped off.  Done. I still use this method. 

[VICIOUS, SASS#8014]

It all sounds expense and lot of work. I use fat 250grain bullet and a reasonable load of smokeless powder. Its a 45 if you need less go o 38s.

[Jeb Stuart #65654]

20 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

The short answer is YES.  Annealing 45 Colt cases will eliminate Blow-By.  Annealing 45 Schofield cases will eliminate Blow-by.  Annealing 44 Special, 44 Russian and Cowboy 45 Special cases will eliminate Blow-By.  I use a very simple and cheap method with a socket, cordless drill, propane tank and painters bucket of water.  Quenching is not necessary.  I only dump 'em inna bucket to cool quicker.

 

I'm not trying to anneal precision rifle cases so getting some a little soft is no big deal.  Too soft and the case may extract a bit stiff.  If you're running a Uberti built toggle link rifle, with straight wall cases, you have blow-by.  By annealing, straight wall rifles will run just as clean as 44-40 or 38-40.  My 45 rifles have run as many as 6 matches with nothing more than swabbing out the barrel.  I primarily shoot APP.

Would you explain your method for annealing with a socket, drill, and torch. Thanks

[Tequila Shooter]

@Jeb Stuart  Be careful, I tried it without using Tempilaq and ruined a bunch of brass.  If you're going to anneal straight wall cases I'd suggest getting both 750* and 450* to make sure you don't get it too hot.  You might want to look at Anneal-Rite their annealers are pretty inexpensive, I haven't used one, but I think I'm going to get one and try it.

[McCandless]

51 minutes ago, VICIOUS, SASS#8014 said:

It all sounds expense and lot of work. I use fat 250grain bullet and a reasonable load of smokeless powder. Its a 45 if you need less go o 38s.

 

They are talking about Black Powder fouling blowback into the action.  Nothing to do with smokeless at all.

[John Boy]

Shooter, post a picture of a couple of you reloads (not shot) with the picture showing the case mouth.  Gonna offer you need to crimp the cases tighter 

And or your charges are minimum or below

Annealing can help but it is not the cure all and No Spent Cases will look like they just came out of the tumbler... substitutes,  smokeless or black powder

[Tequila Shooter]

@John Boy I will get some pics soon.  I'm not concerned about the fouling on the cases or even the chamber, I'm just trying to keep as much fouling out of the internals as I can.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/157294949@N03/albums/72157693450634952

 

here is a link to mine.  I built it mostly to see if I could.  two torches to get both sides but did build a turntable under on spot so brass would rotate in flames--overkill but fun to do

 

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

I deprime then run through annealer then wet tumble (again cause I like sparking brass)

 

reloading is a hobby onto itself . . . then there is casting and powder coating.  

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Jeb Stuart, 

I use a Socket with a bolt thru it to chuck into my cordless,  Load a case into the socket,  Run the cordless on slow in the propane flame for 5 to 6 seconds, then dump inna bucket.  Time consuming.  Boring, Very effective to eliminate Blow-By.  Works with full charges as well as reduced charges of BP and APP.

[Tom Bullweed]

I do not anneal  .45 CS that I shoot sub-BP in my Uberti Henry and OMVs.

Magnum primers, a compressed load (FFFg preferred over FFg) and a tight crimp make for cleaner combustion, for me.

[Jeb Stuart #65654]

1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Jeb Stuart, 

I use a Socket with a bolt thru it to chuck into my cordless,  Load a case into the socket,  Run the cordless on slow in the propane flame for 5 to 6 seconds, then dump inna bucket.  Time consuming.  Boring, Very effective to eliminate Blow-By.  Works with full charges as well as reduced charges of BP and APP.

CC, thanks for the info

[Tucker McNeely]

2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Jeb Stuart, 

I use a Socket with a bolt thru it to chuck into my cordless,  Load a case into the socket,  Run the cordless on slow in the propane flame for 5 to 6 seconds, then dump inna bucket.  Time consuming.  Boring, Very effective to eliminate Blow-By.  Works with full charges as well as reduced charges of BP and APP.

+1 to CC’s method.  It’s what I use also.

[Warden Callaway]

 

[Eyesa Horg]

Warden-- are you just heating until the brass blues? I thought you had to get it at least to dull red.

[Warden Callaway]

5 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Warden-- are you just heating until the brass blues? I thought you had to get it at least to dull red.

 

That's not me doing the flame annealing.  I use a lead dip method.  It's just an example of using a socket and drill.  

[Tequila Shooter]

3 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Warden-- are you just heating until the brass blues? I thought you had to get it at least to dull red.

 

I guess that where that Templar comes in, it's supposed to change color when it reaches temperature.

[Rancho Roy]

If you decide to build your own annealing machine, the article I wrote on my web site might help. I built this one a few years ago and use it extensively on 45-70, 38-55 and other high power centerfire cases. I shoot 38-40 in my rifle and 45 Cowboy Special in my revolvers. Both these cases leave guns super clean so I don't bother annealing.

 

 

 

http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/brass-annealing-machine.html

[Tequila Shooter]

56 minutes ago, Rancho Roy said:

If you decide to build your own annealing machine, the article I wrote on my web site might help. I built this one a few years ago and use it extensively on 45-70, 38-55 and other high power centerfire cases. I shoot 38-40 in my rifle and 45 Cowboy Special in my revolvers. Both these cases leave guns super clean so I don't bother annealing.

 

 

 

http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/brass-annealing-machine.html

 

That looks like a nice machine, but I'm one of those poor folks with no machining tools or experience using them.  It's a blessing that you have the knowledge and skills to make something like that.

[Griff]

I don't anneal my 45 Colt brass.  But, then again, I LIKE cleaning my gun!  I can get thru a 2 day match quite easily before I think it'll benefit from a disassembly.  But, I have clearanced my carrier in both 1873s & the Henry to minimize the impact fouling has in the carrier mortise.  YMMV.  I don't know what the "specification" should be on an 1873 carrier, but... my 1986 mf'd rifle was quite loose from the factory, and I added ~.010 more... for a total of .019".  The 2014 mf'd 1873 measures about ~.018" and the Henry is .019".