What 38 spl hand load and factory ammo do you guys suggest for a 1866 navy sporting rifle?

[BigBadMike]

Hello I new to this site I just got an 1866 navy sporting rifle in 38 spl and wanted to know what ammo you would suggest both factory and I reload so any suggestions on handloads?  Thanks .....BigMike

[Turkey Flats Jack]

any of the cowboy ran ammo suppliers like Bullets by Scarlett, We the People Munitions, Cowboy Choice Ammunition, Etc. As for handloads we run the same rounds in both rifle and pistols.  The wife likes 17 grains of 2f goex under a 125 outlaw bullet or 3.1 grains of winchester wst under a 157 grain outlaw bullet.

[BigBadMike]

Thank you very much. I have several lever guns including a couple mares legs but they are all in a stronger action 1894/1895/ 336/ 375 Marlins, R92 Rossi, New(Henry) 45-70 and model 94 Winchester.  This is my first 1860-1876 lever gun. It is the best looking of the bunch.

[Hoss]

A round nose flat point or truncated cone Bullet around 130 grns loaded to an OAL of about 1.5 ought to work. 
I like a 130 grn Bullet with 3.2 grns Bullseye 

 

semi wad cutters likely won’t feed 

[Rye Miles #13621]

125 gr RNFP or Truncated bullet. 3.5 grains of Tite-Group. Works great in my 66, 73 and my .357 Colts.

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

5 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

any of the cowboy ran ammo suppliers like Bullets by Scarlett, We the People Munitions, Cowboy Choice Ammunition, Etc. As for handloads we run the same rounds in both rifle and pistols.  The wife likes 17 grains of 2f goex under a 125 outlaw bullet or 3.1 grains of winchester wst under a 157 grain outlaw bullet.

+1 on Bullets by Scarlett and the others mentioned for loaded ammo. I load a 125gr. TCFP bullet from Scarlett with a Federal 200 primer and 3.0gr. Clays. I also use the same primer and powder charge with a 158gr. bullet for knock downs.

 

Randy

["Big Boston"]

Bullet shape or form, and over all length are the first criteria.

 

Choose ammunition or bullets so that the loaded OAL is fairly long. The lifter on a '66 is 1.6" long. The '66 does not have a cartridge stop on the magazine. What this means is that any cartridge shorter than 1.6" will have to be pushed back in the magazine a little bit as the next round to be chambered is lifted by the carrier. There are other factors, and it's generally accepted that for proper feeding, optimum length is between 1.45 and 1.55". I run my ammo at 1.5", as anything longer and the magazine tube of my "Trapper" will not hold 10 cartridges. 

 

The bullet shape is critical for smooth feeding. The optimum bullet should slope without any ( or very small) edges from the mouth of the case up to a good sized meplat (the nose of the bullet). The optimum shape would be similar to the shape of a 147 gr 9mm Luger bullet. The case on a 38 Spl is 1.15" so in order to have a LOAL of 1.5", the bullet will need to stick out of the case by .385". In fractions, the bullet should stick out of the case by 3/8 of an inch.

 

Cast bullets around 125 grains are a bit short to get a decent LOAL. Something in the 150 gr weight seems about right. I use a commercially cast and painted bullet that is probably just a 147 gr 9mm bullet that comes out a bit large. 

 

 

The bullet I'm using does not have a cannelure, so I just crimp into the body of the bullet. I adjust the crimp so that my finger nail doesn't snag the mouth of the case. A LEE Factory Crimp die is what I use.

 

I've also used a commercially cast bullet the resembled a 358477 with a slightly fatter nose, and although short @ 1.45", it still worked OK.

 

The load data is easy after the bullet is selected, something that will give you a velocity near to what you want, is reliable and accurate. A top(ish) or near max load of Trail Boss is hard to beat, trust me, I've tried. Velocity is limited to 1400 fps for CAS rifle ammunition. I like about 900 fps, not much recoil with a 147 gr bullet, accuracy is good, and it has enough smack that a hit is easy to hear. If you want to shoot closer to 1400 fps, a slower powder would be you best choice. Unique on up to 2400 would do the trick. 

 

My latest project is to use a 358429, a bit heavier than I'd like, but molds are available and LOAL is good, and there is tons of data for this combo.

 

You may want to read up on reinforcing the ladle before you start shooting, they will break. Also, trim the magazine tube spring, you don't need all the pressure they come with. This reduces the force against the ladle.

 

BB

 

PS: Also, this has been a topic in the past, it may be productive to search older posts.

 

 

 

 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Howdy BBM.  You are getting some good info.  Not all carriers (brass lifter) are the same.  I use the 125gr Truncated Cone mentioned above with no problems.  But I have a Kirst conversion cylinder pistol that can take .38's no longer than 1.42", so I started seating my bullets a bit deeper to that length.  They still run fine in my '73 (made in 1997 - and the same carrier is used in '66 and '73).  But some older guns have shorter ramps and need longer ammo.  You said your '66 is Navy - I assume you mean Navy Arms.  They made some of the earliest repro '66's which do not have replacement parts available and may need longer ammo.  If your carrier opening is 1.6" long then yours isn't one of those real old ones, but the ramp on the front of the carrier will still determine the shortest the ammo can be.

[Cat Brules]

For “standard” factory ammo, you will have to get a lead bullet for CAS.....that would, for “factory” ammo, likely be a 158 grain bullet.  So, “defense” ammo, or semi-jacketed or full-jacketed ammo is not allowed for CAS targets.

 

For CAS competition, you have plenty of suggestions in other replies abov, for light-load ammo.

 

Personally, I load:

-  125 grain RNFP lead slug from Bear Creek Supply and 3.1 grains of Hodgkin TiteGroup smokeless powder.  
Others say they’re using 3.5 grains of TiteGroup with a similar bullet.
You'll find what suits you.

 

Cat Brules

 

 

[Snakebite]

Lots of recipes for ammo. For my 38 special loads, I find that 3 gn of ANY fast powder loaded under any bullet that will fit in the case and give me a OAL of 1.5"  works just fine. No doubt that others might not like this recipe. 

 

sb