Alpo Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Carbon dating only works on stuff that used to be alive - plants or animals. They can look at a reed boat in an Egyptian tomb, or the mummy, and tell how old it is. But what about stuff that was never alive? Pottery? Metal work? There was a old Superman episode we're[\s] WHERE jewel thieves were tearing apart their loot, melting down the precious metals and making fake antiques, which they were selling to museums. They were working out of a salvage ship, and claimed that this was from sunken ships. Decent plot. But it got me thinking. Would there be any way to prove how old the jewel encrusted crown was? Could they prove it was NOT 16th century sunken Spanish gold? Or would they have to go on nothing except the opinions of "experts"? Or if I wanted to sell the museum a bunch of flint spear heads, and old Indian pottery. Could they prove that I made them in my garage last month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 Dammit Otto, you go to hell! You go to hell and you die!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-Eyed Buck,SASS #14795 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 They can date by the deposits the artifact is found in( in situ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Funny you ask, Carbon 14 dating was discovered on this day. As far as your question, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 58 minutes ago, Four-Eyed Buck,SASS #14795 said: They can date by the deposits the artifact is found in( in situ) Exactly. It would be quite rare for something to be found in a strata with no organic content at all. If it were, then likely they could get a relative date, "We know that the layer just above it dates from 4,500 years BCE, and the layer just below it dates about 5,000 years BCE. So this artifact would be ~4,700 years BCE. " ALPO - In the scenario you struck through, an analysis of the metal - alloy, trace minerals and such - could like as not tell them it was a modern reproduction. Also, for the gems it wouldn't be reasonable for the thieves to use natural gems, so an analysis of them could reveal them to either be paste or synthetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 In the case of pottery, it's been studied extensively and is considered an accurate source for dating in many cultures. It's extremely common, there's a known timeline in most cultures for advances in the techniques for manufacturing it and changes in decoration have an established timeline as well. Find a pot, or even just a clay lamp, of a particular style in situ with other artifacts gives you a date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 If the crooks were smart enough, theoretically they would know all of those techniques too and be able to mimic them. Except, I bet it takes a lot of practice to properly mimic those ancient techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said: If the crooks were smart enough, theoretically they would know all of those techniques too and be able to mimic them. Except, I bet it takes a lot of practice to properly mimic those ancient techniques. There was an antique furniture forger once that perfected faking patina by tying the piece to a rope and letting ocean waves beat on it for a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Interesting questions. Have y'all seen the fossilized footprints? There is some interesting stuff too. There have been several recorded discoveries that go against most scientific timelines. The one I remember specifically was the zapata footprint. I believe it was found in New Mexico. It is supposedly 250 million years old. It is in sandstone I believe. Another very interesting find was a footprint also. But. This one had footwear on it. I cant remember the name of that one, but a quick google search should turn it up. My personal opinion is scientists are wrong about the time it took specific rocks to form as well as the method in which some were formed. This could explain some of those 50 ton rocks that were supposedly moved from one area to another as well as the "well before their time technologically advanced" structures were created. I also think they are incorrect about carbon dating precision. Who knows how much carbon was present 2000 years ago much less 50,000 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 12 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: Also, for the gems it wouldn't be reasonable for the thieves to use natural gems, so an analysis of them could reveal them to either be paste or synthetic. Why wouldn't they use the real thing? They are trying to get rid of their stolen merchandise. If they fenced a hot necklace, they might get 10 to 15% of the value of it. But if they melt down the gold, formed it into something else, and put the jewels from the necklace on this new thing, and sold it to a museum as "authentic treasure from a sunken Spanish galleon", they not only would get the full value of the necklace, but might get even more than the modern necklace was worth because it is an antique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Alpo said: Why wouldn't they use the real thing? They are trying to get rid of their stolen merchandise. If they fenced a hot necklace, they might get 10 to 15% of the value of it. But if they melt down the gold, formed it into something else, and put the jewels from the necklace on this new thing, and sold it to a museum as "authentic treasure from a sunken Spanish galleon", they not only would get the full value of the necklace, but might get even more than the modern necklace was worth because it is an antique. The jewels themselves would tell the tale. Not all jewel cutting techniques were used back in the day and different cuts have been popular at different times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 18 hours ago, Ramblin Gambler said: If the crooks were smart enough, theoretically they would know all of those techniques too and be able to mimic them. Except, I bet it takes a lot of practice to properly mimic those ancient techniques. We get that with firearms. Plenty of people out there working on ways to fake the aging of an old Colt pistol, or conversely taking an old one and refinishing it to make it look factory mint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.