To 44/40 or not

[Turkey Flats Jack]

So I picked up a pair of OMVs in 44/40 recently. Which since day one i've regretted not just starting with that caliber instead of going down the 45 colt route. Anyway i've never been much of a ruger fan or colt really but I traded my way into this pair. It's a major learning cure for me compared to the 58 remingtons i've grown accustomed to. I have 2 pairs of 45 converted remingtons. Financially it makes sense to order cylinders and barrels in 44/40 for a pair of these but is it worth the headache of changing the barrels? Are there deeper issues i'm overlooking? timing, alignment, barrel clocking etc? I can get the 2 barrels and 2 cylinders in 44/40 for less than the cost of 1 new 58 in that caliber. hmmm decisions decisions. Any thoughts (on the subject) or advice is welcomed. thanks

[Tyrel Cody]

No, sell/trade the Rugers to me

 

 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

If you don't like the Rugers, which I completely understand, sell them or trade them for what you do want. I imagine you can get a good price on the rugers and be able to order up remingtons in 44-40 and still be ahead.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I have 3 pair of Remingtons and conversion cylinders. I didn't know they made a Remington in .44 (.429) caliber.

I also shoot my rifles in 44-40. I had a pair of Ruger Bisleys and Remington 1875's in 44-40 and traded them off. I didn't like the way they felt. Too heavy.

Ike

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

I converted a pair of SAAs from 45 Colt to 44-40 a while back and they are my main guns.  The barrels and cylinders were easy enough to get from VTI Gun Parts as they were Ubertis.  They were fitted and timed by a gunsmith.  If the design and feel of the Remingtons, as opposed to SAAs, is more to your liking, then it makes sense to convert one of the existing pairs although I don't know if there are cartridge cylinders in 44 cal for Remingtons.  Why not try the Rugers first, though.  I have shot Ruger OMVs in 45 Colt and while different than either Ubertis or Colts, they're easy enough to get used to. 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Love em or hate em, Rugers are Hell for stout and will last a lot longer than we will.

Many aftermarket parts to "hop-up" as well, if yer into that sort. (I am)

A couple of different shapes of hammers, grip changes are easily made as well.

I, too, have Remmies; both 75s and converted 58s in 45 Colt. Love em! They just don't like to run fast (mine don't)

I know you can have a competent 'smith work em to be more reliable at speed but I do my own work and I ain't Jimmy Spurs so...

Not getting rid of the Rems, so at times I pull em out and enjoy some (slow) one-handed shootin.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

4 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Love em or hate em, Rugers are Hell for stout and will last a lot longer than we will.

Many aftermarket parts to "hop-up" as well, if yer into that sort. (I am)

A couple of different shapes of hammers, grip changes are easily made as well.

I, too, have Remmies; both 75s and converted 58s in 45 Colt. Love em! They just don't like to run fast (mine don't)

I know you can have a competent 'smith work em to be more reliable at speed but I do my own work and I ain't Jimmy Spurs so...

Not getting rid of the Rems, so at times I pull em out and enjoy some (slow) one-handed shootin.

I am not picking on you specifically, but statements like this bug the hell out of me. As if Ruger is the only gun out there that will outlast us. I have a Colt from 1927 that has been shot a lot. And it's still running fine and will easily outlast me. How many Rugers are still running from 1927? My point is that pretty much any gun used in this game, save for the occasional lemon (even Ruger falls into this category) will out last us all. The durability issue is really a non issue that shouldn't be used in the decision making when choosing pistols. The other arguments you listed can be though.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Sorry to chap the proverbial hide. Just said Rugers were strong and didn't mean to "dis" any other mfr.

I have an old Colt that 'll run forever too. Hell, Freedom Arms firearms are stronger than any other I know... but the OP didn't just get a set a those.

 

[Turkey Flats Jack]

42 minutes ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

I converted a pair of SAAs from 45 Colt to 44-40 a while back and they are my main guns.  The barrels and cylinders were easy enough to get from VTI Gun Parts as they were Ubertis.  They were fitted and timed by a gunsmith.  If the design and feel of the Remingtons, as opposed to SAAs, is more to your liking, then it makes sense to convert one of the existing pairs although I don't know if there are cartridge cylinders in 44 cal for Remingtons.  Why not try the Rugers first, though.  I have shot Ruger OMVs in 45 Colt and while different than either Ubertis or Colts, they're easy enough to get used to. 

I'm trying to get used to the OMVs. I just got some SBH hammers to install before the next match to see if that helps. I know it's not the guns it's certainly me but I'm having a heck of a time getting used to them. they dont aim as naturally as the remingtons for me. and I cant seem to work them as quick as my remingtons either.  Uberti makes the remington new model army (factory converted) in several calibers including 44/40. cimarron and taylors both show having barrels and cylinders available for 44/40. 

 

1 hour ago, Tyrel Cody said:

No, sell/trade the Rugers to me

 

 

You'll have to get in line lol. I have an offer on the table for them. I'm not over enthused about letting them go as they are no longer in production and the action work on them was done by a local pard that is no longer with us. Not totally against trading them off to another shooter but it'll have to be the right deal for me. 

 

1 hour ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

If you don't like the Rugers, which I completely understand, sell them or trade them for what you do want. I imagine you can get a good price on the rugers and be able to order up remingtons in 44-40 and still be ahead.

I dont hate rugers, they are an excellent quality of gun. I'm just more comfortable with my remingtons. I grew up shooting them with my grandpa and never really handled a SAA until much later in life. Selling them and replacing them seems easy enough until you try to source a pair of remington new model armys in 44/40 locally. My go to shop cant find them through his distributors and the few places that can/will want as much for them as a tricked out pair of new rugers and that just doesnt seem reasonable to me. 

[Ranger Dan]

If you decide to go the barrel/cylinder swap, I did a ruger OMV recently. Unless you have a lathe, you will need some special tools. I found this https://4drentals.com/ to have everything needed, much better than buying the same tools.

[Turkey Flats Jack]

45 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

If you decide to go the barrel/cylinder swap, I did a ruger OMV recently. Unless you have a lathe, you will need some special tools. I found this https://4drentals.com/ to have everything needed, much better than buying the same tools.

I'm not tracking. It'll be oem parts if  I do swap barrels. Barrel vice and action wrench, which I have access to, should be all I need right? 

[Ranger Dan]

Thread timing of the barrel and cylinder to forcing cone gap usually need to be adjusted for each specific gun. I swapped barrels on 2 OMV, had to recut both to match the frames and cylinders. A hand tight barrel should be 10-12 degrees from centered (sight lined up), this is "thread timing" and you cut (with a lathe or hand tool designed for this) the barrel stop or "face". Once you have that set then you can tighten the barrel, install the cylinder and cut the forcing cone to cylinder gap with another tool and finally ream the forcing cone. Quite the operation, although not really difficult, you need special tools or a lathe. I did a lot of research before undertaking the barrel swap, the odds of any barrel fitting exactly any gun is close to zero.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I just went to Taylors, Cimarron and Uberti. Everything is listed as 44 caliber. Their cartridge conversion is listed as 45 colt!

 No trying to be an ass just curious.  1858's listed as 44 shoot 454 round balls or 452 in 45 colt or cowboy cases. Maybe they are referring to a 44 cartridge not a 44-40?

I had 4 pairs of 1858 Remington's with the 7 1/2" barrels. I wanted t go to the short barrels without having to buy new guns. I ordered new barrels and loading rams from VTI. 6 months later they arrived. Not usually in stock!

Ike

[Turkey Flats Jack]

1 hour ago, Ranger Dan said:

Thread timing of the barrel and cylinder to forcing cone gap usually need to be adjusted for each specific gun. I swapped barrels on 2 OMV, had to recut both to match the frames and cylinders. A hand tight barrel should be 10-12 degrees from centered (sight lined up), this is "thread timing" and you cut (with a lathe or hand tool designed for this) the barrel stop or "face". Once you have that set then you can tighten the barrel, install the cylinder and cut the forcing cone to cylinder gap with another tool and finally ream the forcing cone. Quite the operation, although not really difficult, you need special tools or a lathe. I did a lot of research before undertaking the barrel swap, the odds of any barrel fitting exactly any gun is close to zero.

Thank you very much! that is exactly the kind of stuff I was wondering about. I'll have to inquire the cost at a smith to do the barrel swap and then make a final decision as to just buying another set entirely or go forward with the swap. 

[Tyrel Cody]

Are your rifles 44-40?

 

I personally can't see swapping barrels on cartridge revolvers; seems a lot more trouble than it's worth to me.

 

Several 1858 44-40's on Gunbroker by the way.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

56 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

I just went to Taylors, Cimarron and Uberti. Everything is listed as 44 caliber. Their cartridge conversion is listed as 45 colt!

 No trying to be an ass just curious.  1858's listed as 44 shoot 454 round balls or 452 in 45 colt or cowboy cases. Maybe they are referring to a 44 cartridge not a 44-40?

I had 4 pairs of 1858 Remington's with the 7 1/2" barrels. I wanted t go to the short barrels without having to buy new guns. I ordered new barrels and loading rams from VTI. 6 months later they arrived. Not usually in stock!

Ike

Taylors has them under Uberti accessories page 3.  I had to look it up, as well.

[Turkey Flats Jack]

52 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

I just went to Taylors, Cimarron and Uberti. Everything is listed as 44 caliber. Their cartridge conversion is listed as 45 colt!

 No trying to be an ass just curious.  1858's listed as 44 shoot 454 round balls or 452 in 45 colt or cowboy cases. Maybe they are referring to a 44 cartridge not a 44-40?

I had 4 pairs of 1858 Remington's with the 7 1/2" barrels. I wanted t go to the short barrels without having to buy new guns. I ordered new barrels and loading rams from VTI. 6 months later they arrived. Not usually in stock!

Ike

 

I have a pair of 44 cal remingtons also with drop in conversions and quite familiar with what the bore diameter is and what lead to send through them. I also have a pair of factory converted remingtons from cimarron by uberti in 45 colt which is the pair i'm looking at doing the conversion swap on. You can get them in 38 spl, 44/40, and 45 colt. 

You musta been looking in the wrong place. Here's the parts list link to what I have and what i'm looking at doing. https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/accessories/parts/uberti/cartridge-revolvers/uberti-1858-remington-conversion-revolver-parts.html

 

 

[Turkey Flats Jack]

3 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Are your rifles 44-40?

 

I personally can't see swapping barrels on cartridge revolvers; seems a lot more trouble than it's worth to me.

 

Several 1858 44-40's on Gunbroker by the way.

I have a navy arms 73 carbine in 44/40 which came from gunbroker and exactly why i'll never buy another used gun from there again. Also buy the time you pay shipping and ffl transfer fees you're right back to the price of buying a new one from what i've seen. 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

Thanks for that.  I wish they had done this 10 years ago. Then I'd be shooting everything in 44-40.

Ike

 

[Turkey Flats Jack]

Just now, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Thanks for that.  I wish they had done this 10 years ago. Then I'd be shooting everything in 44-40.

Ike

 

That's where i'd like to be. I could have saved a good bit of money by skipping the 45 route

[Tyrel Cody]

2 minutes ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

I have a navy arms 73 carbine in 44/40 which came from gunbroker and exactly why i'll never buy another used gun from there again. Also buy the time you pay shipping and ffl transfer fees you're right back to the price of buying a new one from what i've seen. 

 

I was more speaking towards availability. I've never had a problem buying on Gunbroker, but most of what I have bought has been new or from a known seller like, Barleycorn or Johnny Meadows.

 

What's wrong with the 73'?

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I have the conversion cylinders in 45 Colt but use the cowboy brass.. Usng 2f I get about the same recoil as my cap and ball loads.

[Turkey Flats Jack]

@Tyrel Cody

I got it running now but when I got it: the loading gate tab was bent and tried to double feed onto the carrier, missing the screw that secures the rear sight down, the spring for the carrier finger was worn out and wouldnt push the carrier all the way down to allow the next round to feed without recoil, the mag tube spring had been cut down to much or was worn out enough that it would not push the last round into the carrier. 

[Tucker McNeely]

In my experience with my OMVs and switching to SBH hammers is a must if you want to shoot one handed.   Thin grips from eagle or altamont help also. 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

13 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

@Tyrel Cody

I got it running now but when I got it: the loading gate tab was bent and tried to double feed onto the carrier, missing the screw that secures the rear sight down, the spring for the carrier finger was worn out and wouldnt push the carrier all the way down to allow the next round to feed without recoil, the mag tube spring had been cut down to much or was worn out enough that it would not push the last round into the carrier. 

Hope you posted the appropriate review of the seller on GN; that's despicable unless all that was revealed ahead of time.

[Turkey Flats Jack]

25 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Hope you posted the appropriate review of the seller on GN; that's despicable unless all that was revealed ahead of time.

I did. Still gave him a B rating because he offered to take it back for a refund but by then I felt like I would be out more money than it would cost to fix the issues. I would have been out a $30 ffl transfer and 2 $35 shipping fees and nothing to show for it. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Jack, I'm not real sure of what you want to accomplish.  And you've already acquired a 44-40 Rifle.  And you've already picked up a pair of 44-40 OMV.  With 45 colt it is possible to shoot ammunition as clean as 44-40 by annealing 45 colt cases.   Also a bunch cheaper than shelling out for a pile of new guns.

[Turkey Flats Jack]

19 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Jack, I'm not real sure of what you want to accomplish.  And you've already acquired a 44-40 Rifle.  And you've already picked up a pair of 44-40 OMV.  With 45 colt it is possible to shoot ammunition as clean as 44-40 by annealing 45 colt cases.   Also a bunch cheaper than shelling out for a pile of new guns.

I anneal my 45 brass already so I'm hearing you on that subject. I prefer my 58s over the OMVs so I was pondering switching my factory conversation pair to 44/40 just because I like to tinker and would like a pair of them in 44/40. If it was way more effort than reward (which is where I'm leaning) I'll just pick up another pair in 44/40 at some point. Knowing me I'll end up with a pair in 38 at some point also. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

I personally think a lot more hassle and expense than reward.  If your planning on shooting BP. .... Rugers can be a royal PITA with BP.  However if you just want to play with a bunch of different guns, you're well on your way  

 

I personally don't own any 44-40 and don't have a desire.  So I'm not the best sounding board.

[Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409]

I had  pair of Ruger OMV's that were an NRA special addition with 6.5" barrels...did not really care for them and sold them. Love my .357 OMV's in stainless they will run a match and not get sticky will full loads. Now have a pair of USAF in 44 spcl with 44-40 conversion cylinders 7.5" barrels. Have not shot them at a match yet with bp but will be trying them real soon. Have to load some 44 Russian to try and see how they run during a match and if they prefer the 44-40 or Russians. My rifle is a 66 in 44-40. 

Have fun and try not to make yourself to crazy......

 

Hochbauer

[Turkey Flats Jack]

1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

I personally think a lot more hassle and expense than reward.  If your planning on shooting BP. .... Rugers can be a royal PITA with BP.  However if you just want to play with a bunch of different guns, you're well on your way  

 

I personally don't own any 44-40 and don't have a desire.  So I'm not the best sounding board.

I was kind of thinking i'd have a pair of 58's in both 45 and 44/40 by doing the swap instead of 2 pairs of 45's. I'm not a fan of rugers but I am a fan of the 44/40 and knowing the rugers reputation for being well built is what drove me to pick up this pair when the opportunity presented itself. I'm on the fence on about keeping them. They're good guns i'm just not good with them. 

[Trailrider #896]

I'd take them off your hands in a heartbeat...if it weren't for the fact that I have my pair of convertible OM Ruger Vaqueros (.44-40 and .44 Mangle-em) and a backup pair of .44-40's!  The biggest "problem" with the early OM Vaqueros in .44-40 was the tight .425" throats.  That has never been a problem with me, however.  I just use .430" diameter, hardcast (BHN 17-22) bullets, and the slugs squeeze down going through the throats and then expand back out due to the compressive stresses in the bullet metal not being dissipated during the dwell time in the throats being short.  Just before Ruger discontinued the OM's in .44-40, they opened the throats up to .430+.  Slug your cylinder throats and see what you have.  Opening the tight throats is no big problem, though I'm leaving mine at .425" as I can get tight groups at 25 yds off the bench...or at least I could when my eyes were in better shape than now. (Cataract surgery on the left eye in March, followed by the right eye in April!)

[Turkey Flats Jack]

32 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

I'd take them off your hands in a heartbeat...if it weren't for the fact that I have my pair of convertible OM Ruger Vaqueros (.44-40 and .44 Mangle-em) and a backup pair of .44-40's!  The biggest "problem" with the early OM Vaqueros in .44-40 was the tight .425" throats.  That has never been a problem with me, however.  I just use .430" diameter, hardcast (BHN 17-22) bullets, and the slugs squeeze down going through the throats and then expand back out due to the compressive stresses in the bullet metal not being dissipated during the dwell time in the throats being short.  Just before Ruger discontinued the OM's in .44-40, they opened the throats up to .430+.  Slug your cylinder throats and see what you have.  Opening the tight throats is no big problem, though I'm leaving mine at .425" as I can get tight groups at 25 yds off the bench...or at least I could when my eyes were in better shape than now. (Cataract surgery on the left eye in March, followed by the right eye in April!)

Yep the throats on this pair had been opened up already when I got them. They shoot point of aim. The problem being my point of aim after the buzzer with them lol. I'd be fine in a bullseye match with them but it's gonna take me some time to get to shooting them quickly.