Help loading BP shotgun shells

[Lone Rider SASS#32091]

I am going to load some BP shotgun shells on my lee load all. I have both Goex FFg and FFFg. I have looked at several articles and there seems to be a big variance in the amount of powder used. I load BP cartridge but this is my first attempt at shotgun shells. Can anyone point me towards a good recipe for BP shotgun? I have a set of Lee powder dippers so I am planning on using those for the powder measure. Thanks.

[Crisco]

The 2 loads we use:

1-1/8 oz shot

WAA12R wad 

STS case

W209 primer

4.3 cc 2f (3f if you plan to shoot pigeons)

 

my wife’s load

1-1/8 oz

Peters blue case

1/8” card + 5/8” cushion

2.8cc 2f

W209 primer

shoots like her featherlights 

[Sedalia Dave]

Few questions;

 

Are you using conventional plastic wads or fiber wads and cards?

 

What shot weight are you thinking about using?

 

As a general rule of thumb when using fiber wads and cards,  you use the same volume of powder as shot. After you pattern a few loads if there is a hole in the center of the pattern (pattern resembles the shape of a donut) you either reduce the powder Charge or increase the amount of shot till the hole in the center disappears.

 

Plastic wads generally don't have this issue.

 

[Lone Rider SASS#32091]

I am using fiber wads and cards from circle fly and 7.5 shot. Most of my hulls are win. AA. I had an old black powder loading book I bought years ago and he lists 4.4 cc powder and 1 and 1/8 volume of shot. I loaded a couple of those but have not shot them yet. I looked at some other articles that called for quite a bit less powder that got me thinking about the load. I see Crisco is loading 2.8 cc for his wife. I appreciate the responses.

 

P.S. My book shows using Crisco on the overshot card. Is that necessary in a shotgun load? Thanks again.

[Sedalia Dave]

I use 3 cc of powder and 15/16ths ounce of shot in my APP loads and they work on ever KD I have come across.

 

Corrected the shot charge to read 15/16ths

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

1 hour ago, Lone Rider SASS#32091 said:

I am going to load some BP shotgun shells on my lee load all. I have both Goex FFg and FFFg. I have looked at several articles and there seems to be a big variance in the amount of powder used. I load BP cartridge but this is my first attempt at shotgun shells. Can anyone point me towards a good recipe for BP shotgun? I have a set of Lee powder dippers so I am planning on using those for the powder measure. Thanks.

60-65 grs FFG under 1 oz shot with a Claybuster 1138 red wad will get the job done every time.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

No lube needed

[Dutch Wheeler]

I use a Lee Load-All II to load BP shotshells.

I am using Federal red plastic hulls, with Claybusters CB2100 (12SO) wads. 

I throw 1 ounce of shot, and 35 grains (volume) of Goex FFFg using the .155 powder bushing.

Gets the job done for me out of a Stoeger Coach Gun.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

3 hours ago, Crisco said:

The 2 loads we use:

1-1/8 oz shot

WAA12R wad 

STS case

W209 primer

4.3 cc 2f...

 

Almost exactly my load when using plastic hulls, but using the substitute Claybuster 1138..  I use slightly less than full on the 4.3 dipper.  Used to use 1 oz shot but found that upping the shot and lowering the powder gave a good crimp, better patterns, and never fails to knock over anything.  Less shot would take down most, but there are occasional pesky knockdowns around here.  Tried fiber hulls originally but better pattern with plastic, and cleanup is still a breeze.

[Yusta B.]

2.5cc(FF) & 7/8 shot is plenty - unless you want more. Mec #30 bushing  for 600 jr. I used to shoot 65gr & 1 oz but it's not needed (for me).

 

[Trooper Ozzy]

Lee Loadall 12 ga

Claybuster 1138-12 (WAA12R)

4.3cc dipper Reenactor, 2F, 3F

1 oz reclaimed 7.5

Gun Clubs

Seems to work

 

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Howdy ;

I use 4.3 CC of Goex 3F With any plastic wad that gives a good  crimp over 1 3/16  shot in 12 Ga...

In 16 ga. I use 3.4 CC of Goex 3F with the Claybuster wad  over 1 oz. of shot.

In 20 ga. I use 2.8 CC of Goex 3F with Claybuster Wads over 7/8 oz shot ...

 

Jabez Cowboy  

[Seamus McGillicuddy]

I only use 50g of Goex, either 2F or 3F, whichever I have a lot of, under 1 1/8 oz 9 shot and it is plenty of smoke fire and knockdown power.  I used as little as 40g Prodex with the same result when I was using up that stuff.

 

Seamus

[John Boy]

Rider, read this link. ....  http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

[J-BAR #18287]

If you want to make a statement with lots of smoke and fire and noise then use a big powder charge, like 60 + grains of 2Fg.  If you want a lighter load with less recoil use less powder, down in the 30 to 35 grain range.  The most important things are to eliminate air space between the top of the powder and the bottom of the wad, and get a perfect tight crimp over the shot charge.

 

 I recommend deciding on your shot charge FIRST.  Then determine how far down inside the hull you need to seat the wad (plastic, fiber, whatever) to have that particular amount of shot positioned right up to the crimp fold.  The space between the bottom of the wad and primer is your powder charge.  Hold the hull up to a bright light and mark the bottom of the wad on the outside of the hull with a Sharpie.  Then put powder into the hull up to the mark.  That’s the amount of powder you need for that brand of hull with that wad and that shot volume.

 

My normal 12 gauge load is 2.5 cc of 2FG powder (about 38 grains), white plastic wad, 1 ounce of #8 shot in a Remington STS hull.

 

Red plastic wads allow the most space for big powder charges, then white, then pink, and finally the gray plastic wads minimize both powder and shot volumes.  Using fiber wads, you will have to experiment with the stack to get the relative powder and shot volumes for the hulls you want to use.

 

Shoot your trial loads at paper to check the pattern.  Heavy powder charges under fiber wads have sometimes produced doughnut patterns and it’s frustrating when the knockdowns don’t fall because the shot missed the target.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Everything J-Bar said. This is pretty much all you need to know. 

[Three Foot Johnson]

For 12g, I use a 3.7 cc Lee dipper and 7/8 or 1 oz shot in AA or STS plastic hulls, any 209 primer, and Claybusters replacement Winchester red wads (CB1138-12...?) Anything between about 40-60 grains, by volume, will be fine. I've used 1f, 2f, and 3f black, as well as 2f and 3f APP, Pyrodex P and RS, Pinnacle 3f, and Black MZ with pretty much equal results. If the shot column isn't tall enough, I top it off with a small piece of plastic packing peanut. We're not shooting that far - as long as there isn't a hole in the pattern, it works. 

[Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326]

 

Getting the wad column height just right for a good crimp can be problematic.  However by using a rolled crimp you can sort of by pass all the gymnastics getting the right spacing. 

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Roll-Crimping-Tools/products/128/

This product works great and even makes a good firm crimp on the cheaper shells that will work through almost any action.  Use them once and pitch them.  Best thing going if you are reloading your own BP shotshells.  It actually melts the crimp down and beefs up or thickens the amount of plastic around the crimp. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

12 hours ago, John Boy said:

Rider, read this link. ....  http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

 

That website has been there for a really long time!  Always good info.  There was a shooter years ago, Stawberry Lars (wonder what happened to him?), who knew a lot about older shotguns and used to tell us that because of the longer forcing cones in modern shotguns, plastic wads gives better patterns than fiber wads.  Use fiber in older shotguns.  Which gets back to what J-Bar said: pattern your loads on paper so you know.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I started out using Winchester double A's 70 grains of 2F goex, an over powder card and a fiber wad. Had issues with hole sin the pattern.

Then went to 60 grains with Claybuster 1138 red wad, 1 1/8 once 8 shot.  Shot great.

 But since my shoulder replacement I have gone to 35 grains 2F and  an 1 1/4 ounce load to make up the difference in column height. Still knocks everyhting down, kills clay birds etc. Shot is cheaper than powder!

Ike

[Turkey Flats Jack]

23 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Few questions;

 

Are you using conventional plastic wads or fiber wads and cards?

 

What shot weight are you thinking about using?

 

As a general rule of thumb when using fiber wads and cards,  you use the same volume of powder as shot. After you pattern a few loads if there is a hole in the center of the pattern (pattern resembles the shape of a donut) you either reduce the powder Charge or increase the amount of shot till the hole in the center disappears.

 

Plastic wads generally don't have this issue.

 

Exactly this. I'm running brass hulls and took some fine tuning to close up my pattern. But I've settled in on 4.3cc Dipper of 2fg, 11ga nitro card & 3/4" fiber wad 1 1/8 oz shot, 10ga over shot card, sealed in with 50/50 beeswax/tallow. 

[Your Nemesis]

30 grains of black mz 13/16 oz shot in sts hulls with claybuster 3/4 or one ounce wads.  What ever I can buy up here and adjust the pw crimp a little.  no problem on any

KN around here.  

[Lone Rider SASS#32091]

Thanks for all the responses. I think I’ll load some with different powder charges and shot and see how they do.

[Lone Rider SASS#32091]

I do have one more question. J-Bars post about measuring the shot got me thinking. I know in my cartridge loads I compress the powder slightly with my bullet. Is it necessary to fill the shotgun shell completely to the top with powder, wads and shot? If that is the case it will limit what I could be loading. For example, If it takes 4.4 cc of powder and 1 and 1/8 of shot with the wads to fill to the top, how would you load less powder and shot? Would you use filler or more wads? I am probably overthinking this but I know BP is something that needs to be done correctly. Thanks again.

[J-BAR #18287]

50 minutes ago, Lone Rider SASS#32091 said:

For example, If it takes 4.4 cc of powder and 1 and 1/8 of shot with the wads to fill to the top, how would you load less powder and shot? Would you use filler or more wads?

It’s easy with plastic wads.  I would use a pink or gray wad instead of a white one to create more space between powder and  shot.  I don’t like fillers on top of powder, so if I were using fiber wads I would stack more of them between powder and shot, not over the shot.

 

If the shot rattles around loosely it’s more likely to leak out of the shell.  Loose pellets can jam an action when they leak out as the shell is chambered.  So I want some pressure on the shot as well as the powder.  It doesn’t have to be a lot of pressure, just enough to keep the shell contents from shifting in there.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

I too use fibre wads from Circle Fly.

 

I prefer to use the Remington STS hulls because the plastic is the most slippery and they eject the best from my SXS. I occasionally use Remington AA hulls, but I prefer the Remington STS.

 

Winchester 209 primer

4.3 CC (the largest dipper in the Lee dipper set) approx 65 grains of Schuetzen FFg.

1/8" over powder card

1/2" cushion wad

1 1/8 ounces of #8 shot

.030 over shot card

 

No lube is necessary. Lube is for bullets so the rifling does not fill up with fouling, ruining accuracy. The card wads scrape out most of the fouling left behind by the previous shot, and there is no rifling to fill up with fouling.

 

I load them on my MEC Jr.

 

The size of the shot really does not matter, I have #8 because that is what I used to use when I loaded for Trap.

The reason for the over shot card is that this load does not quite fill up the hull and the crimp would be a tiny bit concave, leaving a small hole in the center that a couple of pieces of shot can escape through. The over shot card levels the crimp and seals the hole. I could increase the powder charge a bit, but then I would run the risk of blowing a hole in the pattern.

 

 

 

 

 

This winds up being about a 2 1/2 dram load. Plenty of punch yet the recoil is not too bad in my 24" barreled Stevens hammer gun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cowboy Junky]

I refuse to help you. I'm afraid if I do I might have to run the timer while you shoot. 

[Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326]

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 8:03 PM, Lone Rider SASS#32091 said:

I do have one more question. J-Bars post about measuring the shot got me thinking. I know in my cartridge loads I compress the powder slightly with my bullet. Is it necessary to fill the shotgun shell completely to the top with powder, wads and shot? If that is the case it will limit what I could be loading. For example, If it takes 4.4 cc of powder and 1 and 1/8 of shot with the wads to fill to the top, how would you load less powder and shot? Would you use filler or more wads? I am probably overthinking this but I know BP is something that needs to be done correctly. Thanks again.

 

Think about the roll crimp...

Actually easy once the thing warms up.   Use a little beeswax every third shell and do a box or so on the drill press all at the same time.

[Sedalia Dave]

On 2/22/2020 at 9:03 PM, Lone Rider SASS#32091 said:

I do have one more question. J-Bars post about measuring the shot got me thinking. I know in my cartridge loads I compress the powder slightly with my bullet. Is it necessary to fill the shotgun shell completely to the top with powder, wads and shot? If that is the case it will limit what I could be loading. For example, If it takes 4.4 cc of powder and 1 and 1/8 of shot with the wads to fill to the top, how would you load less powder and shot? Would you use filler or more wads? I am probably overthinking this but I know BP is something that needs to be done correctly. Thanks again.

 

Because you are using fiber wad and cards all you need to to is adjust them to get the right stack height. If you are a little too tall or short even doing that you can always adjust the shot or powder slightly.

 

I use plastic wads and can get everything to work out by changing the wad, and/or the amount of shot for my desired powder charge.

 

Unlike loading smokeless you can tweak the load to get the right stack height.

[Lone Rider SASS#32091]

Thanks for all the responses, I appreciate it. I’ve got 3 loads ranging from 3.1 cc to 4.4 cc and 1 and 1 1/8 loads with 7.5 shot. I’m going to try them as soon as the weather cooperates.

[J-BAR #18287]

Please give us a range report.  I think we are all eager to have you join the Soot Lord fraternity!  

[Renegade Roger]

 Can't really add too much but I also use my Lee Load All and AA hulls.  I use APP powder.  Load a "square"  1 oz 7.5 shot and equal volume powder (had to fabricate the right size plastic insert ). use a Nitro card, then a waxed 1/2" filler wad, shot, then shot card.  If I load everything correctly I get a perfect crimp.  If I compress by mistake the crimp looks lousy but shoots fine.  the pattern looks great at 7-10 yards.  Kick back is fine for my 76 year old shoulders.  I size the shells carefully and if they drop easily out of the sizer they work fine.  I tried to coat them with a lubricant but the BP just plays hell with whatever I've tried to date (I'm still looking)

 

[Three Foot Johnson]

3 hours ago, Renegade Roger said:

 If I load everything correctly I get a perfect crimp.  

 

The crimp starter on the Load-All isn't self-indexing, so you have to look up into the die and see how the star is oriented, then manually index the shell to match. Otherwise, you get a lot of really bad crimps. 

 

 

[Tequila Shooter]

Lone Rider any range report yet?  Hopefully with all this craziness going on you've been able to get out and shoot.

[Sergeant Smokepole #29248L]

On 2/21/2020 at 10:51 AM, Lone Rider SASS#32091 said:

I am going to load some BP shotgun shells on my lee load all. I have both Goex FFg and FFFg. I have looked at several articles and there seems to be a big variance in the amount of powder used. I load BP cartridge but this is my first attempt at shotgun shells. Can anyone point me towards a good recipe for BP shotgun? I have a set of Lee powder dippers so I am planning on using those for the powder measure. Thanks.

My load is this. 83 grains of FFFg .125 hard card wad, .500 cushion wad, 1 1/8 ounce of shot, .0303 over shot wad put up in brand new Fiocchi hulls and roll crimped. Look at my avatar….